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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 20 Apr 2017 (Thursday) 11:15
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Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?

 
Luckless
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Apr 22, 2017 19:24 |  #166

Hogloff wrote in post #18335282 (external link)
Digging deep are we? Your 3 points laid out are just running rampant on the net with people's cameras just dying from the need to change batteries in the field. Let's put a bit of realism into our points rather than just making things up.

Realism?

You mean things like digging in the snow for a camcorder battery that I dropped earlier this year when trying to swap it with numb fingers due to the cold?

How about having to go back and try to find camcorder batteries that weren't actually in the pocket of the bag I thought I put them in last summer?

Or maybe something like photographing in a near weeklong downpour while huddling under limited cover while out on a trip?

Or maybe getting sand and dust inside the camera while out at the beach and having a sudden gust of wind kick up? (That time was actually while changing film on a 35mm, but the principle applies.)


The longer you can go without having to open a camera up to change things, and the fewer 'spare parts' you need to achieve the job, then the fewer points of failure.


Canon EOS 7D | EF 28 f/1.8 | EF 85 f/1.8 | EF 70-200 f/4L | EF-S 17-55 | Sigma 150-500
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Charlie
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Apr 22, 2017 19:33 |  #167

Luckless wrote in post #18335293 (external link)
Realism?

You mean things like digging in the snow for a camcorder battery that I dropped earlier this year when trying to swap it with numb fingers due to the cold?

How about having to go back and try to find camcorder batteries that weren't actually in the pocket of the bag I thought I put them in last summer?

Or maybe something like photographing in a near weeklong downpour while huddling under limited cover while out on a trip?

Or maybe getting sand and dust inside the camera while out at the beach and having a sudden gust of wind kick up? (That time was actually while changing film on a 35mm, but the principle applies.)

The longer you can go without having to open a camera up to change things, and the fewer 'spare parts' you need to achieve the job, then the fewer points of failure.

When shooting by the waters, I typically shoot two bodies. Not very likely one or both camera will run out of juice.


Sony A7rii/A7riii - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 35-70, 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8, 24/1.4 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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Wilt
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Apr 22, 2017 19:36 as a reply to  @ post 18335286 |  #168

I'll need to find out what the 'sitting fee' provides from a 'customer value' point of view, and just how large the sitting fee is.


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Hogloff
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Apr 22, 2017 19:40 |  #169

Luckless wrote in post #18335293 (external link)
Realism?

You mean things like digging in the snow for a camcorder battery that I dropped earlier this year when trying to swap it with numb fingers due to the cold?

How about having to go back and try to find camcorder batteries that weren't actually in the pocket of the bag I thought I put them in last summer?

Or maybe something like photographing in a near weeklong downpour while huddling under limited cover while out on a trip?

Or maybe getting sand and dust inside the camera while out at the beach and having a sudden gust of wind kick up? (That time was actually while changing film on a 35mm, but the principle applies.)

The longer you can go without having to open a camera up to change things, and the fewer 'spare parts' you need to achieve the job, then the fewer points of failure.


Heaven forbid you have to change a lens and end up digging in the snow for the lens or in a pocket in your bag. I find being organized greatly eliminates problems in the field.

I've shot in all kinds of conditions and yes, have got rain, salt, dust etc... Into my cameras ( DSLR's I have to say ) and some quit working...but that's just par for the territory. Not once did I have an issue with changing batteries in the field...not once. Bigger issue is changing lenses. I get roughly 400 shots per battery in my A7R. That usually does me for a day. I can always use a grip to double that which for sure does me a days worth of shooting.

Now if you are shooting at higher frame rates, the number of shots per battery goes up quite drastically to over 1,000. I see very few scenarios where people would need to do more than 1 battery change during a shoot...is that 1 change really that prone to causing a catastrophic failure or disaster?




  
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idkdc
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Apr 22, 2017 19:41 |  #170

Wilt wrote in post #18335306 (external link)
I'll need to find out what the 'sitting fee' provides from a 'customer value' point of view, and just how large the sitting fee is.

Means they can do whatever they like to with the digitals. I don't depend on prints to pay the bills. They're just an additional service (and extra source of revenue) that customers want for friends and family. Of course through this model, they pay more for the service rendered, not the the physical goods delivered.


1DXII(2) | 5D4 | D850 | 8-800mm

  
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idkdc
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Apr 22, 2017 19:43 |  #171

Hogloff wrote in post #18335311 (external link)
Heaven forbid you have to change a lens and end up digging in the snow for the lens or in a pocket in your bag. I find being organized greatly eliminates problems in the field.

I've shot in all kinds of conditions and yes, have got rain, salt, dust etc... Into my cameras ( DSLR's I have to say ) and some quit working...but that's just par for the territory. Not once did I have an issue with changing batteries in the field...not once. Bigger issue is changing lenses. I get roughly 400 shots per battery in my A7R. That usually does me for a day. I can always use a grip to double that which for sure does me a days worth of shooting.

Now if you are shooting at higher frame rates, the number of shots per battery goes up quite drastically to over 1,000. I see very few scenarios where people would need to do more than 1 battery change during a shoot...is that 1 change really that prone to causing a catastrophic failure or disaster?

I don't see the issue of contention. I think Sony can improve in battery life just as Canon can improve in DR. Both are usable now, both can always improve! 2.2x the battery life actually sounds good to me now.


1DXII(2) | 5D4 | D850 | 8-800mm

  
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Luckless
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Apr 22, 2017 19:48 |  #172

Well, to be fair I own two 7D bodies such that I can carry them both, each with a lens, and not have to change them...

I'm also curious as to how you would suggest being better organized keeps your fingers from getting cold in extreme windchill conditions such that the risk of dropping an item is equal to the risk of dropping an item that is already safely inside the camera and not removed.


No, it is not the end of the world to change a battery and my life doesn't stop if I have to. But that doesn't mean that I will take all the negatives that come with the Sony product over the Canon or Nikon with a design that is better suited to my tasks.


Canon EOS 7D | EF 28 f/1.8 | EF 85 f/1.8 | EF 70-200 f/4L | EF-S 17-55 | Sigma 150-500
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idkdc
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Apr 22, 2017 19:50 |  #173

Luckless wrote in post #18335316 (external link)
Well, to be fair I own two 7D bodies such that I can carry them both, each with a lens, and not have to change them...

I'm also curious as to how you would suggest being better organized keeps your fingers from getting cold in extreme windchill conditions such that the risk of dropping an item is equal to the risk of dropping an item that is already safely inside the camera and not removed.


No, it is not the end of the world to change a battery and my life doesn't stop if I have to. But that doesn't mean that I will take all the negatives that come with the Sony product over the Canon or Nikon with a design that is better suited to my tasks.

I think battery life varies with weather too, now that you mention it? I wonder what the difference is between 1DXII, 5DSR, D810, A7RII A9 and GFX50S batteries in cold weather. Not that I shoot in the artic too often, but you know, I would like to sometime this year.


1DXII(2) | 5D4 | D850 | 8-800mm

  
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Wilt
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Apr 22, 2017 20:12 |  #174

idkdc wrote in post #18335317 (external link)
I think battery life varies with weather too, now that you mention it? I wonder what the difference is between 1DXII, 5DSR, D810, A7RII A9 and GFX50S batteries in cold weather. Not that I shoot in the artic too often, but you know, I would like to sometime this year.

I have read that you can expect a Li-Ion cell to lose about 40 - 50% of its capacity at 0 F
OTOH, the term 'lithium ion' really is a broad class of different chemistries, with lithium content being the common content, and some chemistries are more cold tolerant than others.


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idkdc
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Apr 22, 2017 20:36 |  #175

Wilt wrote in post #18335326 (external link)
I have read that you can expect a Li-Ion cell to loose about 40 - 50% of its capacity at 0 F
OTOH, the term 'lithium ion' really is a broad class of different chemistries, with lithium content being the common content, and some chemistries are more cold tolerant than others.

Right like Lithium Polymer.

I wonder if the EVF and higher demands are affected by cold weather?


1DXII(2) | 5D4 | D850 | 8-800mm

  
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corndog ­ cabernet
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Apr 23, 2017 00:54 |  #176

nekrosoft13 wrote in post #18334966 "oh and can you autofocus manual focus only lenses on a Canon body? Because you can autofocus manual only lenses on sony. Autofocus Leica glass, sure, Autofocus Olympus, Canon, Pentax, Minolta glass from the 50-60-70-80s sure."

corndog cabernet wrote in post #18335275 (external link)
You can? I'm interested in that. How does that work?

Seriously, does anybody know anything about this? Nekrosoft writes pretty definitively about this. Just HOW is this possible?




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 23, 2017 00:59 |  #177

corndog cabernet wrote in post #18335496 (external link)
nekrosoft13 wrote in post #18334966 "oh and can you autofocus manual focus only lenses on a Canon body? Because you can autofocus manual only lenses on sony. Autofocus Leica glass, sure, Autofocus Olympus, Canon, Pentax, Minolta glass from the 50-60-70-80s sure."

Seriously, does anybody know anything about this? Nekrosoft writes pretty definitively about this. Just HOW is this possible?


A link was posted a while back. First time I heard of it. Cool if it works.


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Charlie
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Apr 23, 2017 01:16 |  #178

I have one, use it mostly for AF with the rokinon 85 f1.4

it works well, the adapter is fairly fast and has modest tracking abilities. It also does have quirks depending on focus movement of the lens. If you use a long lens be prepared to prefocus. Like for my 200 f2, if subject is 15m out, I should focus to 17m and then I'll have a working range of 17m to 5m for instance. Not an exact science, the adapter can move 4mm, which is plenty for wider angle lenses 50mm and below. for 85 and up, plan on a working range. In short, if AF seems to get stuck, just throw focus past the subject and it'll start working fine.


Sony A7rii/A7riii - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 35-70, 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8, 24/1.4 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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corndog ­ cabernet
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Apr 23, 2017 01:28 |  #179

Well knock me over with a feather!
Thanks Jake and Charlie.




  
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Jotto123
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Apr 23, 2017 03:33 |  #180

Yeah Canon will be number 2 in about 2 years. I say that based In the trend that in the time it takes for Canon to put out a single model Sony will have already put out 3 or 4.


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