Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 28 Apr 2017 (Friday) 18:50
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

That Expensive Green Box

 
monty28428
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,120 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 245
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Carolina Beach
     
Apr 29, 2017 01:23 |  #16

Do you feel better now ?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
8,075 posts
Likes: 2731
Joined Oct 2015
     
Apr 29, 2017 01:29 |  #17

monty28428 wrote in post #18341546 (external link)
Do you feel better now ?

Strangely, yes. Though I wish my dog would stop waking me up at 1:00 A.M. just to go outside and eat cat turds.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
Avatar
12,798 posts
Gallery: 142 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 3292
Joined Dec 2008
Location: Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
Post edited over 1 year ago by Tom Reichner. (6 edits in all)
     
Apr 29, 2017 02:58 |  #18

icopus wrote in post #18341409 (external link)
If you've never used it, how do you know what it will produce?

I do not know what it will produce . . . and that is why I don't use it.

.

icopus wrote in post #18341409 (external link)
Have you ever missed a hurried shot because you were in the wrong mode?

Not really. At least not that I can remember. I do, of course, miss hurried shots, but the reason is seldom, if ever, because of the mode I am in.

To be honest, I find that hurried shots rarely end up as great shots, anyway. The really good stuff almost always comes when I have enough time to think through the details and get nit-picky about composition (particularly the point of view from which I shoot). Camera settings are kind of something that's done automatically, without much thought, because the thinking has to be applied to other things, such as how my behavior influences the subject, managing background elements, timing the shot, placing the subject precisely in the frame, anticipating subject movement, etc.

.

icopus wrote in post #18341409 (external link)
Are there good/greats shots that could be made using the full auto mode?

Absolutely!

.

icopus wrote in post #18341409 (external link)
What's wrong with intentionally getting that shot?

Nothing is wrong with getting that shot.......what is wrong is not getting the shot the way one wants it to look because they relinquish creative control.

.

icopus wrote in post #18341409 (external link)
I'm thinking that the ones who 'never' use it are those who are never casual photogs. For them, it's a 'pro' shot or no shot at all.

That is exactly how I feel. Well, I don't need every shot to be a 'pro' shot, necessarily, but I do want every shot to be exactly a certain way. Every shot I take, I have a particular reason for taking it, and a very particular way that I want it to look. But not every frame I shoot needs to be marketable.

If someone takes photos as a way to preserve memories or to save images of cherished loved ones, then the green box mode makes sense. I do not photograph things for those reasons, as my photographic goals are entirely for aesthetic purposes.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
I'm a bloody goody two-shoes!
Avatar
17,872 posts
Gallery: 277 photos
Best ofs: 10
Likes: 6059
Joined Sep 2008
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
     
Apr 29, 2017 03:05 |  #19

icopus wrote in post #18341450 (external link)
Once we venture into the manual modes, are we not allowed to venture back lest we be downgraded again to 'snapshot taker'?

That suggests that you think it's the natural order of photography to first start in Auto mode and then move your way up, as it were. That is nonsense. I shot in manual mode from the first time I picked up a camera and for the simple reason that I wanted to learn about light. In Auto mode a beginner learns nothing about anything. I'm a firm believer of beginners shooting in manual mode exclusively as it is the only way to truly learn about light and how to properly expose photos. Once you know how to take a good photograph yourself, by all means, use whatever mode you want: one of the semi-automated modes or even the green box if that suits you for a particular situation. But to use the Green box or P or Av or whatever because you don't know how to properly expose your shots, in my opinion, is a bad idea.


Levina
Please quote when responding to a post!!!
There is no such thing as ect. It's etc. (with period) from latin et cetera.
Colours are not complimentary but complementary.
My flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
Gaaaaa! DOH!! Oops!
9,108 posts
Likes: 144
Joined Apr 2006
Location: North Carolina
     
Apr 29, 2017 05:59 |  #20

Yawn. Another useless POTN philosophical discussion (thread). Like discussions of politics and religion, there are no winners and no compromise. Everybody has their own opinion and they're sticking to it.

How's this for a useless, futile, and probably non-understood opinion: shoot however you want - produce whatever makes you happy.

If you are happiest taking snapshots and desire a mechanical device to make decisions for you, fine. Do it.
If your happiness is derived from a desire to take a photograph and control shutter speed, depth of field and so forth, fine. Do it.

There are three absolutes:
- We're all different and we do things differently and different things make us happy
- Absolutely nobody's opinion, nor the way they do things, will be changed by this thread.
- You've been trolled

It's all wasted hot air and time.


Website (external link) |

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Pippan
Goldmember
Avatar
1,382 posts
Gallery: 85 photos
Likes: 1770
Joined Oct 2015
Location: Darwin, Straya
Post edited over 1 year ago by Pippan.
     
Apr 29, 2017 06:47 |  #21

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18341625 (external link)
Yawn. Another useless POTN philosophical discussion (thread). Like discussions of politics and religion, there are no winners and no compromise. Everybody has their own opinion and they're sticking to it.

How's this for a useless, futile, and probably non-understood opinion: shoot however you want - produce whatever makes you happy.

If you are happiest taking snapshots and desire a mechanical device to make decisions for you, fine. Do it.
If your happiness is derived from a desire to take a photograph and control shutter speed, depth of field and so forth, fine. Do it.

There are three absolutes:
- We're all different and we do things differently and different things make us happy
- Absolutely nobody's opinion, nor the way they do things, will be changed by this thread.
- You've been trolled

It's all wasted hot air and time.

The world isn't just about winners and losers, or compromises. Some of us actually enjoy philosophical discussions, and general photography discussions, even when there is no absolute right or wrong outcome. Some of us even learn from them. I don't feel like I've been trolled, nor that my hot air and time have been wasted reading this thread. But thanks for your opinion. :)


— Please feel free to offer your thoughts on how I might improve my images —

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
saea501
... spilled over a little on the panties
Avatar
6,563 posts
Gallery: 42 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 7821
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Florida
     
Apr 29, 2017 06:47 |  #22

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18341625 (external link)
Yawn. Another useless POTN philosophical discussion (thread). Like discussions of politics and religion, there are no winners and no compromise. Everybody has their own opinion and they're sticking to it.

How's this for a useless, futile, and probably non-understood opinion: shoot however you want - produce whatever makes you happy.

If you are happiest taking snapshots and desire a mechanical device to make decisions for you, fine. Do it.
If your happiness is derived from a desire to take a photograph and control shutter speed, depth of field and so forth, fine. Do it.

There are three absolutes:
- We're all different and we do things differently and different things make us happy
- Absolutely nobody's opinion, nor the way they do things, will be changed by this thread.
- You've been trolled

It's all wasted hot air and time.

....speaking of useless.....


Remember what the DorMouse said.....feed your head.
Bob
https://www.flickr.com …282@N06/with/38​203470844/ (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DaviSto
... sorry. I got carried away!
Avatar
1,927 posts
Gallery: 56 photos
Likes: 893
Joined Nov 2016
Location: Abuja Nigeria
Post edited over 1 year ago by DaviSto.
     
Apr 29, 2017 06:54 |  #23

Without green box mode, there would be no photographic evidence of my own existence. Simple.

It is really useful to be able to put the camera into fully automatic mode and to hand the camera over to a willing stooge ("just get everybody in the picture ... then push that button there ... all the way"). I'm grateful that my family and friends consider me to be of enough importance to want to be photographed with me not just by me. Green box makes that possible.


David.
Comment and (constructive) criticism always welcome.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
8,075 posts
Likes: 2731
Joined Oct 2015
     
Apr 29, 2017 07:07 |  #24

I think this is the best series of four posts ever made on POTN!

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18341570 (external link)
That suggests that you think it's the natural order of photography to first start in Auto mode and then move your way up, as it were. That is nonsense. I shot in manual mode from the first time I picked up a camera and for the simple reason that I wanted to learn about light. In Auto mode a beginner learns nothing about anything. I'm a firm believer of beginners shooting in manual mode exclusively as it is the only way to truly learn about light and how to properly expose photos. Once you know how to take a good photograph yourself, by all means, use whatever mode you want: one of the semi-automated modes or even the green box if that suits you for a particular situation. But to use the Green box or P or Av or whatever because you don't know how to properly expose your shots, in my opinion, is a bad idea.

I totally and complete agree with Levina. If you've been around photography for any serious length of time, you had no choice but to start with FULL manual EVERYTHING. Modes? What modes? My first cameras didn't even have batteries, or switches. My second go-round had batteries - for the METER. Manual focus, manual zoom, manual shutter, manual aperture.

Levina is right. A new photographer learns DIDDLEY-SQUAT in [] box mode. Apologies Levina, I may have para-phrased just a bit there.

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18341625 (external link)
Yawn. Another useless POTN philosophical discussion (thread). Like discussions of politics and religion, there are no winners and no compromise. Everybody has their own opinion and they're sticking to it.

How's this for a useless, futile, and probably non-understood opinion: shoot however you want - produce whatever makes you happy.

If you are happiest taking snapshots and desire a mechanical device to make decisions for you, fine. Do it.
If your happiness is derived from a desire to take a photograph and control shutter speed, depth of field and so forth, fine. Do it.

There are three absolutes:
- We're all different and we do things differently and different things make us happy
- Absolutely nobody's opinion, nor the way they do things, will be changed by this thread.
- You've been trolled

It's all wasted hot air and time.

Speaking of hot air and a wasted of time, see above.

Pippan wrote in post #18341641 (external link)
The world isn't just about winners and losers, or compromises. Some of us actually enjoy philosophical discussions, and general photography discussions, even when there is no absolute right or wrong outcome. Some of us even learn from them. I don't feel like I've been trolled, nor that my hot air and time have been wasted reading this thread. But thanks for your opinion. :)

Bang.

saea501 wrote in post #18341642 (external link)
....speaking of useless.....

Bang, bang.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
35,343 posts
Gallery: 98 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 4877
Joined May 2002
Location: Northern Indiana
     
Apr 29, 2017 07:19 |  #25

I will give a slightly different perspective here that I haven't yet read.

I used green box mode to teach me. Sounds strange, but I would take a shot in green box, then go to the other modes to try to replicate the shot. I would try different variations of settings as well to see the impacts. Eventually I no longer needed that mode.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Jethr0
Goldmember
Avatar
1,049 posts
Gallery: 91 photos
Likes: 713
Joined Aug 2012
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
     
Apr 29, 2017 07:46 |  #26

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18341665 (external link)
I will give a slightly different perspective here that I haven't yet read.

I used green box mode to teach me. Sounds strange, but I would take a shot in green box, then go to the other modes to try to replicate the shot. I would try different variations of settings as well to see the impacts. Eventually I no longer needed that mode.

I did the same with my Rebel T3 when I got it. Used the P as well.

The camera is smarter and faster than me any day.


www.jefflowe.ca (external link)
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeff​lowe.ca (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
35,343 posts
Gallery: 98 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 4877
Joined May 2002
Location: Northern Indiana
Post edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Apr 29, 2017 08:22 |  #27

I would say that if all you use is the green box and hardly ever get into the other modes, a DSLR is way overkill. There are some wonderful Canon APS-C sized compacts and point and shoots that have nearly the same IQ, with nice fixed lenses, that would be easier to use, hold, carry, etc and still have raw as an option, and Av/Tv/M modes.

The only reason to have a DSLR and use the green box mode, say maybe 80% or more, would be to use different lenses, but one might argue you really aren't using that equipment, including the lenses, to the fullest capabilities and the investment is most likely lost. It is like buying a home theater receiver, and then only using one input for stereo mode. Sure you can listen to music and it sounds pretty good, but with the equalizer and other settings, your experience could have more breadth and depth.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
Avatar
12,798 posts
Gallery: 142 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 3292
Joined Dec 2008
Location: Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
Post edited over 1 year ago by Tom Reichner.
     
Apr 29, 2017 09:38 |  #28

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18341570 (external link)
In Auto mode a beginner learns nothing about anything.

Bassat wrote in post #18341658 (external link)
Levina is right. A new photographer learns DIDDLEY-SQUAT in [] box mode.

I think that a beginner can learn immensely, even if using nothing other than the green box mode, or P mode.

Almost everything that matters can be learned in these automated modes; composition, arrangements of objects within a frame, timing, the way that changes in ambient light affect a scene, finding subject matter that is compelling, timing - 'the decisive moment', the power of perspective via changes in point of view, and so on.

Settings such as aperture and shutter speed and ISO really only matter a little bit when compared to the things that I just mentioned. Yes, these settings help us to fine-tune our output, but they are not the heart and soul of photography.

When it comes to the things that really matter, beginners can learn them even if only using fully automated modes and settings. I began my pursuit of digital photography with a point and shoot. It was a Sony, and hence the menus were so hard to understand that I never did learn to use them......so I was limited to the green 'auto' setting - I simply didn't know how to get into any other mode. I used this point and shoot for about a year, in nothing but auto mode, and within that year I learned SO MUCH and became a much better photographer, despite the fact that I hadn't learned anything about exposure and how to adjust it.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MalVeauX
"Looks rough and well used"
Avatar
13,002 posts
Gallery: 1460 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 9456
Joined Feb 2013
Location: Florida
     
Apr 29, 2017 10:14 |  #29

icopus wrote in post #18341450 (external link)
Ok... re-reading that, it sounds like I'm trying to pick a fight. I'm not. I apologize. I only want this community to recognize the widely varying levels its members are and recognize what they are or aren't aspiring to.

I think the community is well aware. Just browse the 5DIV, 5DSR, 200L, 851.2L, etc, "unite" threads (only mentioned those due to immense cost relative to the older stuff) and take a look at how many snapshots are in there of sink faucets, brick walls, random stuff laying around the house, their vehicle in a drive way, etc.

Mean while, you can look at very modest equipment threads, P&S even, and find actual photographs with purpose.

Cost is not relative when it comes to photography. And this is why an $8k green box machine is fair to criticize from my perspective in the context of a photography forum.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with learning a tool. Green box however is not an excuse for something else. Again, in the context of a photography forum, not just a snapshot-sharing-machine (like social media for the most part). But this is simply my perspective, you may argue it elitist or not, I learned a lot from this forum by accepting criticism and wanting to make photographs instead of just snapshots and I'm still learning.

I mean, some of you are talking like Beemer owners talk. ... ... oops.

What does a beemer have to do with this? Are you referring to a lighting beemer (as that's great, that's photography related)? Or a BMW? If your';e referring to a BMW with some notion of linking it to an elitist attitude, I'm sorry I don't follow, as that's just an attitude in some countries where it's an import, as in others its a common vehicle and not something an elitist would drive around and talk trash from. This is not relevant to this though. I'm simply taking it in the joking spirit that I assume it was delivered in.

Very best,


My Flickr (external link) :: My Astrobin (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
Avatar
9,251 posts
Gallery: 12 photos
Likes: 2048
Joined Jun 2011
Location: The Uwharrie Mts, NC
     
Apr 29, 2017 10:18 |  #30

MalVeauX wrote in post #18341771 (external link)
I think the community is well aware. Just browse the 5DIV, 5DSR, 200L, 851.2L, etc, "unite" threads (only mentioned those due to immense cost relative to the older stuff) and take a look at how many snapshots are in there of sink faucets, brick walls, random stuff laying around the house, their vehicle in a drive way, etc.

Mean while, you can look at very modest equipment threads, P&S even, and find actual photographs with purpose.

Cost is not relative when it comes to photography. And this is why an $8k green box machine is fair to criticize from my perspective in the context of a photography forum.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with learning a tool. Green box however is not an excuse for something else. Again, in the context of a photography forum, not just a snapshot-sharing-machine (like social media for the most part). But this is simply my perspective, you may argue it elitist or not, I learned a lot from this forum by accepting criticism and wanting to make photographs instead of just snapshots and I'm still learning.

nailed it.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

17,497 views & 170 likes for this thread
That Expensive Green Box
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is kotsyphotography
554 guests, 408 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.