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Thread started 12 Nov 2014 (Wednesday) 14:59
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7D Mark II - Focus Discussions

 
CyberCat
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May 10, 2017 03:44 |  #6976

digital paradise wrote in post #18350527 (external link)
Aside from the reason being AF does not lock I can't see why it can' be made to beep when it acquires initial AF to let the user know. They put a human on the moon with a Commodore 64. Sure it is always adjusting after while tracking but when it loses and re-aquires AF then it beeps again. Maybe there is a design issue that I don't know about which makes it completely impossible but I'm not an engineer.

If there is a beep to inform you that it acquired focus then another type of beep would be needed to inform you that focus was lost.
If there is a beep only when it acquires focus then between two beeps you will have no idea at what stage it lost the focus and how long did it take to acquire it again. That is how I see it.


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Pondrader
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May 10, 2017 07:20 |  #6977

Wilt wrote in post #18350572 (external link)
Yes, I understand that audible confirmation might drive you (or those around you) crazy. But there are so many confirmation options presented, and yet losing both audible signal as well as the AF green signal while in AF Servo leaves a signficant dependence on blind trust.

Blind trust works Wilt, honestly it would be a solid beep would it not as the camera is always in focus on one or a few focus points. It is the first thing I do to a camera.. turning off the beep. after all I'm trying to be inconspicuous. just give it a little time and you will see.


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mwsilver
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May 10, 2017 07:34 |  #6978

Wilt wrote in post #18350572 (external link)
Yes, I understand that audible confirmation might drive you (or those around you) crazy. But there are so many confirmation options presented, and yet losing both audible signal as well as the AF green signal while in AF Servo leaves a signficant dependence on blind trust.

Perhaps I'm not fully understanding your concern. There is no beep or acquisition light in AIServo because they both indicate not just the acquisition of focus, but focus lock. Since focus is never locked, and can change continuously as you or your subject moves in AIServo, a lock indicator of any kind would be irrelevant. If you want focus lock indicators and still want to retain AIServo's focus tracking ability, then you'll need to use AIFocus. .


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May 10, 2017 07:40 as a reply to  @ mwsilver's post |  #6979

Agreed, and we are debating behavior that has been there for as many models as I can remember going back to the 30D even, I believe.


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Pondrader
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May 10, 2017 07:45 |  #6980

I would put up with the beep if it was in focus everytime lol


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digital ­ paradise
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May 10, 2017 07:49 |  #6981

harcosparky wrote in post #18350689 (external link)
The 'beep' is to indicate a 'lock'

Man landed on the moon on July 20,1969 .......
The Commodore 64 came along 13 years later in July 1982.

But I sorta get where you are coming from.

If you say focus locks in AI Servo around here you get into trouble :-)


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Pondrader
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May 10, 2017 07:50 |  #6982

digital paradise wrote in post #18350812 (external link)
If you say focus locks in AI Servo around here you get into trouble :-)

The real question is.... Did we really land on the Moon ??


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May 10, 2017 07:51 |  #6983

CyberCat wrote in post #18350710 (external link)
If there is a beep to inform you that it acquired focus then another type of beep would be needed to inform you that focus was lost.
If there is a beep only when it acquires focus then between two beeps you will have no idea at what stage it lost the focus and how long did it take to acquire it again. That is how I see it.

Yeah there are numerous possible scenarios. Aside from being technically impossible we have not heard why it can't be done.


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CyberCat
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May 10, 2017 08:38 |  #6984

digital paradise wrote in post #18350815 (external link)
Yeah there are numerous possible scenarios. Aside from being technically impossible we have not heard why it can't be done.

I know it is not possible. I was thinking further and expressed that even if it was possible the one beep would not hold any valueable information / meaning as the sound should be either continuous while focus is acquired or there should be a second type of beep informing about losing focus.


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Pondrader
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May 10, 2017 08:49 |  #6985

I would like a beep to tell me wildlife is coming just around the corner. So I could put my coffee down !!


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May 10, 2017 09:12 |  #6986

Pondrader wrote in post #18350851 (external link)
I would like a beep to tell me wildlife is coming just around the corner. So I could put my coffee down !!

You mean you don't have the Intuitive Subject Acquisition (ISA) feature turned on?


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May 10, 2017 09:20 |  #6987

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18350805 (external link)
Agreed, and we are debating behavior that has been there for as many models as I can remember going back to the 30D even, I believe.

EOS 3 at least,. maybe (likely) even the first film body with AI Servo.


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Wilt
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Wilt. (12 edits in all)
     
May 10, 2017 10:01 |  #6988

harcosparky wrote in post #18350689 (external link)
The 'beep' is to indicate a 'lock'

mwsilver wrote in post #18350798 (external link)
Perhaps I'm not fully understanding your concern. There is no beep or acquisition light in AIServo because they both indicate not just the acquisition of focus, but focus lock. Since focus is never locked, and can change continuously as you or your subject moves in AIServo, a lock indicator of any kind would be irrelevant. If you want focus lock indicators and still want to retain AIServo's focus tracking ability, then you'll need to use AIFocus. .

The Canon 7DII user manual disagrees with your statements of 'focus lock'. In fact, the third bullet clearly points out 'focus lock' is NOT the same thing!

  • on p. 69
    "Menu Disabling the Beeter You can prevent the beepter from sounding when focus is achieved or during self timer operations."
  • on p.80
    "The AF point that achieves focus will be displayed. At the same time the beeper will sound and the focus indicator < ● > will light up."
  • on p.84
    when focus is achieved, the AF point will turn green and the beeper will sound.
  • on p.87
    If [(camera icon)1: Beep] is set to [Disable], the beeper will not sound when focus is achieved.

CyberCat wrote:
"...as the sound should be either continuous while focus is acquired or there should be a second type of beep informing about losing focus."

But wait apparently it does! The user manual says the beeper continues to beep...which clearly contradicts the belief that beeping on a moving subject does not function! -?

  • on p. 81

    "The beeper continues to beep softly. The focus indicator < ● > does not light up.)
    It indicates that the camera is focusing continuously on a moving subject. (The focus indicator < ● > does not light up.) You can take sharp pictures of a moving subject. Note that focus lock (p8.3) will not work in this case.

  • on page 83

    In the 'A+' mode if the subject moves, distance to camera changes) while or after you focus, AI Servo AF will take effect to focus on the subject continuously. The beeper will continue beeping softly.) As long as you keep the Area AF frame positioned over the subject while pressing the shutter button halfway, the focusing will be continuous. When you want to take the picture, press the shutter button completely."



So the camera SHOULD continue to beep, yet the views expressed within this very thread believe that beep on continuous focus stops?! So this warrants more investigation.

Ah, on p.88 it is clarified somewhat...

"AI Servo AF for Moving Subjects
This AF operation is suited for moving subject when thee focusing distance keeps changing. ..,When the AF area selection mode is set to 65-point automatic selection AF, focus tracking will continue as long as the Area AF frame covers the subject.
With AI Servo AF, the beeper will not sound even when focus is achieved. Aso the focus indicator in the viewfinder will not light up."

"AI Focus AF switches the AF operation from One-shot AF to AI Servo AF automatically if a still subject starts moving.
After the subject is focused in One-shot AF, if the subject starts moving the camera will detect movement, change the AF operation automatically to AI Servo AF, and start tracking the moving subject".
"When focus is achieved with AI Focus AF with the Servo operation active, the beeper will continue beeping softly. However the focus indication in the viewfinder will not light up. Note that focus will not be locked in this case.

...but nevertheless the manual does state, "In the 'A+' mode if the subject moves, distance to camera changes) while or after you focus, AI Servo AF will take effect to focus on the subject continuously. The beeper will continue beeping softly.)"


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May 10, 2017 10:34 |  #6989

Wilt wrote in post #18350924 (external link)
The Canon 7DII user manual disagrees with your statements of 'focus lock'. In fact, the third bullet clearly points out 'focus lock' is NOT the same thing!
  • on p. 69
    "Menu Disabling the Beeter You can prevent the beepter from sounding when focus is achieved or during self timer operations."
  • on p.80
    "The AF point that achieves focus will be displayed. At the same time the beeper will sound and the focus indicator < ● > will light up."
  • on p.84
    when focus is achieved, the AF point will turn green and the beeper will sound.
  • on p.87
    If [(camera icon)1: Beep] is set to [Disable], the beeper will not sound when focus is achieved.


But wait apparently it does! The user manual says the beeper continues to beep...which clearly contradicts the belief that beeping on a moving subject does not function! -?
  • on p. 81

    "The beeper continues to beep softly. The focus indicator < ● > does not light up.)
    It indicates that the camera is focusing continuously on a moving subject. (The focus indicator < ● > does not light up.) You can take sharp pictures of a moving subject. Note that focus lock (p8.3) will not work in this case.

  • on page 83

    In the 'A+' mode if the subject moves, distance to camera changes) while or after you focus, AI Servo AF will take effect to focus on the subject continuously. The beeper will continue beeping softly.) As long as you keep the Area AF frame positioned over the subject while pressing the shutter button halfway, the focusing will be continuous. When you want to take the picture, press the shutter button completely."



So the camera SHOULD continue to beep, yet the views expressed within this very thread believe that beep on continuous focus stops?! So this warrants more investigation.

Ah, on p.88 it is clarified somewhat...
"AI Servo AF for Moving Subjects
This AF operation is suited for moving subject when thee focusing distance keeps changing. ..,When the AF area selection mode is set to 65-point automatic selection AF, focus tracking will continue as long as the Area AF frame covers the subject.
With AI Servo AF, the beeper will not sound even when focus is achieved. Aso the focus indicator in the viewfinder will not light up."

"AI Focus AF switches the AF operation from One-shot AF to AI Servo AF automatically if a still subject starts moving.
After the subject is focused in One-shot AF, if the subject starts moving the camera will detect movement, change the AF operation automatically to AI Servo AF, and start tracking the moving subject", and (I presume) do so without beef nor focus indicator.

When you achieve focus in One Shot by holding down the shutter button 1/2 way, or holding down BBF, and you hear the beep and see the acquisition light your focus is locked. You can move the camera in any direction and move back and forth but the locked focus does not change as long as you continue to hold down the buttons. I think you're​ misinterpreting the manual.

In reviewing your response to Cybercat in this post, you may be misinterpreting the use of the beep functionality as well. Bringing in any added functionality during full auto is not germain to this conversation.


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Wilt
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May 10, 2017 10:44 |  #6990

mwsilver wrote in post #18350962 (external link)
When you achieve focus in One Shot by holding down the shutter button 1/2 way, or holding down BBF, and you hear the beep and see the acquisition light your focus is locked. You can move the camera in any direction and move back and forth but the locked focus does not change as long as you continue to hold down the buttons. I think you're​ misinterpreting the manual.

I just read the manual in quoting it...there is NO INTERPRETATION taking place in my reporting and quoting what it says. Yes, it beeps in ONE SHOT, but it apparently does NOT beep in AI Servo!

The manual clearly states NO BEEP in some circumstances, and BEEP in other circumstances...what I quoted.

I'm simply trying to understand some complex behavior,

  • "AI Servo AF, the beeper will not sound"
  • In the 'A+' mode if the subject moves, distance to camera changes) while or after you focus, AI Servo AF will take effect to focus on the subject continuously. The beeper will continue beeping softly.)



...it would appear that in the 'A+' mode, it behaves the way in which I would like it to (but now I need to understand what about that mode are undesireable characteristics for my needs).

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