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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 20 Apr 2017 (Thursday) 11:15
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Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?

 
Hogloff
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May 12, 2017 08:18 |  #841

CheshireCat wrote in post #18352687 (external link)
Is it really ? Sony also has very compact APS-C cameras and lenses, plus the flexibility of scaling to FF.

I carry a A6000 as a spare camera to my A7R for travel. Very light and compact and it uses the same batteries and lenses as the A7R. Combine the A6000 with the Sony 28 or 35 2.8 and you have a very compact camera. I use these combinations when I venture out without specific photography in mind.




  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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May 12, 2017 09:05 |  #842

corndog cabernet wrote in post #18352545 (external link)
^
The promise of mirror less is lightweight and compact, with (maybe) better IQ for a given sensor size. Though this last issue is less determinable and not conclusive.
Fuji X is much more compact and lighter than Sony, FF anyway. Conceding the last Nth of IQ goes to Sony FF, for what I do it mostly doesn't matter. Factoring in the minor size differential of the Sony system makes the Sony a minor step for those looking to downsize. The Fuji is a much larger step towards small and efficient.

I actually prefer large cameras - small cameras are awkward for me to use.

So, besides size, what are the benefits? I mean, if I prefer larger cameras, then what other things does Fuji offer that are better than DSLRs or better than Sony full frame mirrorless cameras? I could learn to deal with a small camera if it gave me a lot of other things that Sony and/or DSLRs didn't give me.

F.Y.I., I only shoot stills, mostly shoot fast moving subjects with very long lenses, and like to print big 40 to 50 inch prints.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Patbil10
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May 12, 2017 10:03 as a reply to  @ post 18339201 |  #843

Well, I one both an M5 and a 5D4 and when I look at them closely without any lens on, the opening on the "M" mount seems to small to accept a FF sensor...-?


Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon EOS M5, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II,Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro, Sigma 35mm Art, Tamron SP 85mm f/1.8, EF-M 22mm f/2, Canon ef-m 15-45, Rokinon 14mm f2.8 and other stuff...

  
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CheshireCat
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May 12, 2017 10:51 |  #844

Patbil10 wrote in post #18352804 (external link)
Well, I one both an M5 and a 5D4 and when I look at them closely without any lens on, the opening on the "M" mount seems to small to accept a FF sensor...-?

Don't worry, people said the same about Sony E-mount.
There were a lot comments on the Internet about how Sony mirrorless would never be able to compete with Canikon because it was "clearly an APS-C only system" :-D


1Dx, 5D2 and some lenses

  
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elitejp
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May 12, 2017 11:19 |  #845

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18352737 (external link)
I actually prefer large cameras - small cameras are awkward for me to use.

So, besides size, what are the benefits? I mean, if I prefer larger cameras, then what other things does Fuji offer that are better than DSLRs or better than Sony full frame mirrorless cameras? I could learn to deal with a small camera if it gave me a lot of other things that Sony and/or DSLRs didn't give me.

F.Y.I., I only shoot stills, mostly shoot fast moving subjects with very long lenses, and like to print big 40 to 50 inch prints.

.

You do realize you are in the minority.
But your argument is like me saying i prefer to shoot wide so what benefit does a newly released 400mm do for me.


6D; canon 85mm 1.8, Tamron 24-70mm VC, Canon 135L Canon 70-200L is ii

  
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rantercsr
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May 12, 2017 11:32 |  #846

small size is great , love my a6500 for that ,, put on the small 28 f2 on it , great walk around setup if i'm trying to stay small.. and light..

that being said , its not exactly the most comfortable to hold..(same goes for the pana gx8 I owend which was about the same size)
my pinky is just there tring to find somewhere to be..

so when i'm walking around with it , no , i'm not going around saying , damn my hand is uncomfortable .. its not that bad.. but yeah with smaller cameras I find that can be an issue..that and because everything is smaller sometimes you find yourself hitting buttons you didn't mean to , with your palm or whatever.. this is more of a problem with especially small cameras.. like m4/3's ... it happened to me a lot and I know many people when new to the system complain about it to .. takes a bit to learn how to position your hand around the camera so this doesn't happen

one of the things I loved about the 5d3 was how there was a nice comfortable spot for every bit of my hand ,,

If I had it my way ... sony would make a "pro" version of apsc line .. take the insides of the a6500 put it in a body similar to the size of a gh4/5 ( which is a hair short if not the same size as my rebel t4i) and add proper heat sinks , weather sealing , durability ...

I like small , but I like light weight better , i'd say lighter weight is why I went with mirrorless.. and that's not to say every scenario with mirrorless is a lot lighter than not , just saying staying lighter is a bit easier


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Tom Reichner.
     
May 12, 2017 11:45 |  #847

elitejp wrote in post #18352884 (external link)
You do realize you are in the minority.
But your argument is like me saying i prefer to shoot wide so what benefit does a newly released 400mm do for me.

No, not at all.

Surely there are a lot of benefits to the Fuji system other than size or cost. There must be. I would like to know what they are. I mean, the files themselves must be superior in some ways to those of the Sony system, or to FF DSLR files. Otherwise, one would be compromising image quality just of the sake of size.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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corndog ­ cabernet
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May 12, 2017 14:35 |  #848

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18352737 (external link)
I actually prefer large cameras - small cameras are awkward for me to use.

So, besides size, what are the benefits? I mean, if I prefer larger cameras, then what other things does Fuji offer that are better than DSLRs or better than Sony full frame mirrorless cameras? I could learn to deal with a small camera if it gave me a lot of other things that Sony and/or DSLRs didn't give me.

F.Y.I., I only shoot stills, mostly shoot fast moving subjects with very long lenses, and like to print big 40 to 50 inch prints.

.

No, you got it. It's size and weight. And by the way, I agree with you that regular sized SLRs are easier to handle and control. For me the lure of mirror less applies to the idea of general carry and travel. For the working man; wedding, event, sports, wildlife, fashion, product, commercial, and so on… I see little or no advantage. Certain Fuji cams have comprehensive mechanical controls which many find appealing, including me. Two lenses I'm interested in, the 14 f2.8 and the 35 f1.4, both have DOF scales on the lens. This is very attractive to me. As for speed, I'm used to Canon's interface and I find them VERY fast to use, my X100S.. not so much. For me it's sort of a horses for courses kind of a thing.

Regarding Sony's APS system compared to Fuji's, the Fuji lens system (especially primes) is more comprehensive. Fuji may be a tad smaller but the lens line up is pretty great. Sony may have the edge in IQ, but I'm sure that is minor.




  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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May 12, 2017 18:31 |  #849

corndog cabernet wrote in post #18353057 (external link)
Regarding Sony's APS system compared to Fuji's, the Fuji lens system (especially primes) is more comprehensive. Fuji may be a tad smaller but the lens line up is pretty great. Sony may have the edge in IQ, but I'm sure that is minor.

The lens factor is a really big deal. I am much more attracted to a system that allows me to use native glass, as opposed to using adapters.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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elitejp
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May 12, 2017 19:28 |  #850

Lets not forget that mirrorless doesnt require micro adjusting any lenses. To me that is another huge benefit.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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May 12, 2017 20:01 |  #851

elitejp wrote in post #18353246 (external link)
Lets not forget that mirrorless doesnt require micro adjusting any lenses. To me that is another huge benefit.

This is, honestly, the primary benefit in my mind.

Possibly the only benefit.

If I laid my gear out on a table with my FF camera, and then substituted my SL1 (which we determined earlier in this thread was the same size as Sony mirrorless FF) there would be virtually no difference in size. So why do I care about the size of the camera body? The thought of shooting all day with such a small camera does not appeal to me, at all.

Until I see a set of five lenses for FF mirrorless that is more than just marginally smaller than their FF DSLR equivalent size is a non issue.

IMO, AFMA is a crutch for canon to allow greater tolerances in manufacturing. I hope they get that we recognize that is what they have done and tighten up.


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Hogloff
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May 12, 2017 20:49 |  #852

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18353270 (external link)
This is, honestly, the primary benefit in my mind.

Possibly the only benefit.

If I laid my gear out on a table with my FF camera, and then substituted my SL1 (which we determined earlier in this thread was the same size as Sony mirrorless FF) there would be virtually no difference in size. So why do I care about the size of the camera body? The thought of shooting all day with such a small camera does not appeal to me, at all.

Until I see a set of five lenses for FF mirrorless that is more than just marginally smaller than their FF DSLR equivalent size is a non issue.

IMO, AFMA is a crutch for canon to allow greater tolerances in manufacturing. I hope they get that we recognize that is what they have done and tighten up.

Sure the SL1 size is just a bit larger than the A7R...but come on do you really think they are even close in image quality. That's the real benefit of Sony mirrorless, not only does the system size decrease, but the image quality increases. A win on both fronts.




  
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May 12, 2017 21:02 |  #853

Hogloff wrote in post #18353308 (external link)
Sure the SL1 size is just a bit larger than the A7R...but come on do you really think they are even close in image quality. That's the real benefit of Sony mirrorless, not only does the system size decrease, but the image quality increases. A win on both fronts.

We covered this before. I have never referenced the SL1 and image quality in comparison to the A9. It is simply my basis for judging size and handling.

You could put the Sony sensor in a shoebox and still see the benefits of the sensor so the mirrorless/size aspect is really a different part of the discussion.

The mirrorless format allows for on sensor focusing.

The size is a marketing decision.

The sensor IQ/DR is independent of form factor.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Hogloff
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May 12, 2017 21:40 |  #854

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18353314 (external link)
We covered this before. I have never referenced the SL1 and image quality in comparison to the A9. It is simply my basis for judging size and handling.

You could put the Sony sensor in a shoebox and still see the benefits of the sensor so the mirrorless/size aspect is really a different part of the discussion.

The mirrorless format allows for on sensor focusing.

The size is a marketing decision.

The sensor IQ/DR is independent of form factor.

Well another huge benefit is you see what your image will be like by looking through the viewfinder including things like exposure and focus...i.e. no more chimping which is rampant with DSLR cameras.

Size is also a big advantage as mirrorless allows for smaller cameras ( the SL1 is a crop...the A7R is a full frame and is smaller than the SL1 ). Lenses can be designed specifically for the shorter flange resulting in more compact lenses as can be seen in the Zeiss Batis line and some Loxia lenses.

A huge advantage for some types of photography is a true silent shutter which is not possible with a DSLR camera.

Manual focus with zoom is much easier and more accurate than with DSLR cameras which I required to shim my focus screen to get somewhat possible manual focus with my 5d2.

Live histogram in the viewfinder and zeebra stripes make it easier to adjust your exposure in realtime.

Object recognition like detecting eyes and tracking them is much better with a mirrorless camera as it has much more detailed information to work with. You'll see this aspect of mirrorless really expand and excel in the next few years as faster processors are utilized.

So saying not needing AF adjustments as being the only true advantage of mirrorless is just wrong...many more including system size / bulk reduction.




  
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bobbyz
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May 12, 2017 22:09 |  #855

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18352908 (external link)
No, not at all.

Surely there are a lot of benefits to the Fuji system other than size or cost. There must be. I would like to know what they are. I mean, the files themselves must be superior in some ways to those of the Sony system, or to FF DSLR files. Otherwise, one would be compromising image quality just of the sake of size.

.

I tried both Sony A7RII and Fuji and for me Fuji feels better, I like the dials on Fuji cameras. Sony does have better Eye detect AF and very nice high ISO but Fuji uses Sony crop sensors so it is good also. I like aperture rings on Fuji lenses. Lenses quality wise are as good if not better than Canon L glass. And they are much cheaper than Sony lenses. Sony lenses are even expensive than Canon from what I have seen.

Now with new Sony A9, I do like what Sony has done but rumors are there that Fuji also working on super-duper crop camera. So I am just sitting tight and waiting for now. Just missed the chance to pick GFX50s.


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