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FORUMS Sony Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Sony Cameras 
Thread started 27 May 2015 (Wednesday) 18:49
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Sony A7x lounge

 
davidfarina
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May 31, 2017 02:10 |  #33601

digital_AM wrote in post #18366745 (external link)
Wow this is my dream phone!

https://petapixel.com …s-4k-dedicated-bw-sensor/ (external link)

Damn I must say this phone looks very nice.

I read about multiple camera on phones to increase DR and sensitivity one or two years ago and this looks like it got a step closer. Interesting!


Sony A7RII | Sony A7S
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Nick ­ Aufiero
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May 31, 2017 09:28 as a reply to  @ post 18367118 |  #33602

This is exactly what I said and he keeps saying that it does lmao
I'm trying to be nice because hes a director of photography for some films and stuff but yeah xD!!!


Appreciate it.

I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some great magical secret I was depriving myself of


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 10:08 |  #33603
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look at that crazy banding ;)


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wallstreetoneil
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Post edited over 1 year ago by wallstreetoneil. (3 edits in all)
     
May 31, 2017 10:11 |  #33604

Nick Aufiero wrote in post #18366968 (external link)
So My buddy is a video nerd and wanted to borrow my camera and asked why Picture Profile I used.
I said none and he said I'm depriving myself of image quality and color quality.

I told him I shot raw and I didn't think stuff like SLOG2 and LUTs applied to photos but he is 110% sure that it does?

Can someone answer me this?

I'm kinda confused because every time I open the raw image in ACR it looks the same as every other one.

He is even going so far to say that Adobe isn't recognizing but it does in fact matter how I shoot, even If I shoot raw photos./

yar

If you shoot pictures in jpeg, then you must choose a Picture Profile that is applied to the picture. Once this is applied, it is not impossible to adjust the image, it is just that there is no longer as large of a potential in adjustments that can be made - sometimes dramatically so - thus the RAW file format contain more information. I haven't answered your questions this was just an opening statement to set the table.

"I told him I shot raw and I didn't think stuff like SLOG2 and LUTs applied to photos but he is 110% sure that it does?"
- effectively, shooting in SLOG and then applying a LUT to it afterwards, is sort of like shooting in RAW and then applying a Picture Profile to it in Post (i.e. Camera Faithful, Neutral, Portrait, Landscape, etc)
- I say sort of because it is, except the SLOG is implying in a way that you are shooting at ONLY ISO 100 in RAW, where DR is highest, and then then Applying a LUT / Picture Profile to this - except it isn't quite as easy
- as an example, if you look at the C-log 'upgrade' to the 5D4, you have to shoot the Clog at ISO400 - but the camera person in you might ask, what if ISO 400 is too much exposure - especially if you are shooting with a forced SS of 1/50 if you are shooting 24P video - the answer is a tiny aperture or most likely ND filters - but then you might ask why is it ISO 400 that Canon is saying gets the highest DR when we know from tests 100ISO has the highest DR?
- the answer to that comes in what a Log mapping is doing to the photons hitting the sensor - basically a Log type mapping is massively re-scaling a more linear type RAW mapping of colour information into a more compressed / squeezed curve to try and capture as much graduated information in the darkest of the darks and the whitest of the whites and somehow each manufacture find that magic ISO / Log trade-off and tells you the ISO you have to use - and on the Sony A7S that ISO is 3200 - which almost seems insane from a picture perspective of having to shoot all pictures at ISO 3200 (i.e. insane) but that is the way the multiple variable solution was found for that specific Sony camera - but again, this is in a compressed video format - not a RAW format
- it is this multi variable type jpeg issue that a Log + Lut is doing that RAW for a single picture avoids because a single RAW picture is easily manipulated on a normal computer from a processing perspective whereas shooting a 20 minute RAW video needs massive computer power to edit and therefore most humans are not shooting RAW video - they shoot basically in jpeg type format with compression of information built in so their Log + Lut (with Camera specific ISO determined) is what they are required to do


"I'm kinda confused because every time I open the raw image in ACR it looks the same as every other one."
- when you bring a RAW image into a Post Processing editor, Lightroom as an example, the engine will apply an initial colour space (Adobe Standard as an example) but this is all changeable
- this may be what you are seeing - but you are also seeing a 'flat' type raw image that has not had a Picture Profile applied to it - so in a way, the flat raw image is a look unto itself and what you are seeing - if you shoot raw, it is really required that you process the image to make it look not raw

"He is even going so far to say that Adobe isn't recognizing but it does in fact matter how I shoot, even If I shoot raw photos."
- i'm not sure what you mean here, but your processing engine does know the image was shot in raw
- unless your video friend has experience shooting raw video, which my guess is he doesn't because the workflow is a total nightmare, he is effectively shooting his video in a jpeg type format and is doing it in a way to give him the highest possible DR (shooting in Log at the ISO the manufacture makes the camera shoot at) and then he can afterwards extract the most colour information from this compressed jpeg type format (because he is not shooting raw)
- if he shot his video in RAW he would likely better understand

The one caveat to all this, and to which I do not have the answer, is that while we are told that from a camera perspective that base ISO has the highest DR, and that makes sense, there is the multi variable nature of the log gamma plus shooting at a higher ISO (5D4 is ISO 400 with Clog) that Canon is telling us is the ISO that they can extract the highest DR from when shooting in a compressed, non raw, format - so part of what your friend is saying is obviously true when shooting compressed is taken into consideration and Sony's 3200ISO on the A7S is Slog2 is showing you this. But if you shoot RAW video, like the new just announced C200 can, you can unlock 15 Stops of DR versus the 13 stops when shooting Clog - so from a RAW perspective, your friend is wrong.


Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

  
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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 10:39 |  #33605
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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 10:43 |  #33606
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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 10:54 |  #33607
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These little things are damn quick!


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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 11:00 |  #33608
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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 11:03 |  #33609
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mystik610
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May 31, 2017 11:09 |  #33610

davidfarina wrote in post #18367168 (external link)
Damn I must say this phone looks very nice.

I read about multiple camera on phones to increase DR and sensitivity one or two years ago and this looks like it got a step closer. Interesting!

They can also do things like use two cameras to take shot of the in focus and another out focus and combine them to simulate fast aperture glass (i.e. iPhone portrait mode...which HTC actually did first). Really with multiple lens cameras we might be able to use mobile devices to simulate just about everything that we are aesthetically creating with our big single lens camera systems now. Not anytime soon, but imagine where this could go in 10-15 years.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

  
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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 11:13 |  #33611
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mystik610 wrote in post #18367400 (external link)
They can also do things like use two cameras to take shot of the in focus and another out focus and combine them to simulate fast aperture glass (i.e. iPhone portrait mode...which HTC actually did first). Really with multiple lens cameras we might be able to use mobile devices to simulate just about everything that we are aesthetically creating with our big single lens camera systems now. Not anytime soon, but imagine where this could go in 10-15 years.


have you heard about L16? they are calling it a DLSR replacement, will be going for sale this year.

https://light.co/ (external link)


IMAGE: https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Light-L16-front-view-640x353.jpg

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mystik610
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Post edited over 1 year ago by mystik610.
     
May 31, 2017 11:14 |  #33612

I just got the 24-35 F2...updated all of the firmware and did some quick tests. Still struggles at times. Fares much better on the a6500 than the a7rII....and yeah it can't focus reliably outside of the rule of thirds rectangle as the PDAF stops working past those boundaries.

Hopefully native Sigma FE lenses don't have this limitation, but it seems that the E-mount APS-C Sigma lenses do.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

  
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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 11:16 |  #33613
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anyone know what type of bird this is?

It didn't stick around for long, only got few shots though the branches.


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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 11:18 |  #33614
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mystik610 wrote in post #18367407 (external link)
I just got the 24-35 F2...updated all of the firmware and did some quick tests. Still struggles at times. Fares much better on the a6500 than the a7rII....and yeah it can't focus reliably outside of the rule of thirds square as the PDAF stops working past those boundaries.

Hopefully native Sigma FE lenses don't have this limitation, but it seems that the E-mount APS-C Sigma lenses do.

every sigma DSLR lens I tried does that... not sure why, I need to try my sigmas on metabones see its also limited.

not sure if its hardware limitation or they do it on purpose to limit AF to same size as DLSR limited AF center zone.


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nekrosoft13
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May 31, 2017 11:23 |  #33615
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