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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 28 Jun 2017 (Wednesday) 23:15
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6d2 is here.

 
CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 29, 2017 11:48 |  #61

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18389827 (external link)
...

I am very frequently placing my main subject way out near the edge of the frame where my 1D4...

And the 1D4, which should have been included in my list above of 1.3x bodies, has FAR better coverage than the 1Ds or 5D3 bodies,. I don;t know if any body out there now would be better. I'll compare 1D4/5D4/7D2 for this aspect soon.


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gjl711
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Jun 29, 2017 11:49 |  #62

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18389805 (external link)
.
What seems so odd to me is that they wait so, so very long to finally release an upgrade, but then they withhold so many of the features that have already been developed.

I mean, supposedly, the reason to wait so long between upgrades is because after a year or three there just haven't been enough technological advances to justify a new model. . So if technology is what we've all been waiting on for so long, then it seems odd that when they finally do release the new model, they don't put the newly developed features and capabilities into the camera. . That makes me think, "Hey, they could have released this camera two years ago - all the technology was there at that time. Why are they just giving this to us now?"

.
.

That sums it up for me as well Tom. The 5DIV is almost a year old now and I would expect that the 6DII has at least the same features albeit somewhat degraded than it. I can understand not putting in bleeding edge technology, and maybe even justify leaving out leading edge tech, but to leave out what today is being considered main steam tech, especially if it's already been out there for some time, is not what I would expect from a forward thinking company.


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DaviSto
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Jun 29, 2017 11:50 |  #63

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18389827 (external link)
These are really important points .(pun might be intended :) ).

Frame coverage is just so very important and has such a great effect on the images I take that I don't know if I could live with something that would cause me so much trouble in this area.

That makes sense ... if you are working with a big lenses and very precise/particular framing, the lack of outer focus points the 6Dii is probably not going to cut it. I'm presuming that there are good reasons why Live View and DPAF would not be a workable alternative. Insufficiently quick and/or precise focusing, battery drain or whatever.

Jake's earlier point also makes sense to me ... in a theatrical context.

I imagine this is how Canon wants things to be ... even if users would like it to be different. To be able to offer the 6Dii at it's (relatively) low price point, they need to leave a substantial set of users with good reasons to buy its more highly specified and more expensive alternatives. It's marketing.


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ma11rats
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Jun 29, 2017 11:52 as a reply to  @ CyberDyneSystems's post |  #64

I'll bet that the 7D2's AF points reach out the furthest of any of Canon's Dslr. That was the first thing I noticed on the 5d3 after using the 7d2. They were much closer to the center.

1Ds3/1D4 had the same set of points(I believe the 1D4 had more selectable points however). Same set of points(same AF system) covering a smaller sensor covers a wider range in the viewfinder.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Jun 29, 2017 11:54 |  #65

grazamataz wrote in post #18389721 (external link)
It sounds like it can work independently during handheld video shooting, or in combination with lens IS.

"Full HD video recording is supported up to 60fps, and you can also call upon digital five-axis image stabilization to help steady footage. This can work in concert with lens-based IS when a lens that includes the system is mounted on the body."

I can't wrap my head around that.

How could IS work if it is enabled in both the lens and the body, and these two IS systems were not designed to talk to each other? If two systems correct the same camera shake, they should recreate the blur in the opposite direction by correcting 2x as much as necessary.

The only thing that comes to mind immediately is that maybe Canon figured out a way for the camera to tell if IS is enabled in the lens (by current draw?), and that the senor IS then only makes unique corrections that the lens can't.




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 29, 2017 11:57 |  #66

ma11rats wrote in post #18389858 (external link)
...g I noticed on the 5d3 after using the 7d2. They were much closer to the center.

1Ds3/1D4 had the same set of points(I believe the 1D4 had more selectable points however). Same set of points(same AF system) covering a smaller sensor covers a wider range in the viewfinder.

Exactly. And it was that way from the very first 1.3x crop 1D vs. FF 1Ds (or even EOS 3, EOS 1V)


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CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 29, 2017 11:59 |  #67

John Sheehy wrote in post #18389862 (external link)
I can't wrap my head around that.

How could IS work if it is enabled in both the lens and the body, ....?

People keep asking this, but this ability has been around for many years in DLSRs made by companies that include "IBIS" (in body image stabilization)

This is not a new trick, or theory, it's been used in practice for some time now.
The answer is simply put, they design it to work together.
I think your own answer is probably very close to how it's done.


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ma11rats
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Jun 29, 2017 12:00 |  #68

The biggest part that bugs me about the necessity of compromise in the product lines is Canon gives us this new body in the lowest FF range with better high ISO ability but lops off that benefit by keeping it entry level. Why was the 6d line announced after the 5D3? It should have come out beforehand. So the newest tech/better sensors were IN the pro body.

I WANT the smaller form factor for weddings, I want the cleaner high ISO, vari-angle touchscreen for odd angle reception dance shots...yes please, I want less MP because I don't need that much info for 1500+ images that'll never be printed larger than 8x10, and I want dual slots for security.

Spending more on the next level 'pro' body means I have to carry more weight, and not have the best performing sensor available... drives me crazy.... just for security/piece of mind 2nd card slot(not caring for the other differences).

I've said all along, I'd be willing to pay more than $2k for the size of the 6D, with 2 slots. Keep everything else the same for all I care. I'm comfortable with all the other line separating differences. I'll put up with 1/180, I'll shoot at f2.8 vs f2 to keep it at 1/4000 vs 1/8000. I'll take the tighter packed AF points. I just want that smaller body with 2 slots. ugh.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Jun 29, 2017 12:03 |  #69

gjl711 wrote in post #18389841 (external link)
I thought the 6D was $2200 at launch and came down pretty quickly. Not sure how reliable camelcamelcamel (external link) data is though.

IIRC, I paid $1899 for the 6D just weeks after it was released.




  
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Jun 29, 2017 12:14 |  #70

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18389812 (external link)
Add in Tilt screen and some other features that the 5D4 lacks

Yup, wish the 5D4 had the tilting screen...-? That's one of the features I love the most about my M5...I don't have to get dirty when taking a really low shot. :-)


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apersson850
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Jun 29, 2017 12:25 |  #71

Delivering 4K video from a full frame sensor creates substantially more heat than doing the same from an APS-C sensor. Not to talk about a phone camera sensor.

Laws of physics imply that it's not possible to get good accuracy from phase difference AF points that are too far from the center axis of the lens. This doesn't care about the sensor size, but is measured in absolute terms. Hence it's more difficult to place them closer to the image edge on a full frame.


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idkdc
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Jun 29, 2017 12:31 |  #72

People have been complaining about the 6D ever since the D600 was out. Seems to have sold just fine since then.

Full frame offerings in the price range like the A7II and D610 and even D750 do not have 4K video or phase detect / DPAF video. The A7RII was 3500? 3200? on release. The GH5 is a 2x crop sensor with less autofocus capability.

The A7RII has rubbish full frame 4K video - the crop mode is much better - so cry me a river about the 5DIV 4K crop video.


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gjl711
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Jun 29, 2017 12:42 |  #73

idkdc wrote in post #18389908 (external link)
...Full frame offerings in the price range like the A7II and D610 and even D750 do not have 4K video or phase detect / DPAF video. The A7RII was 3500? 3200? on release. The GH5 is a 2x crop sensor with less autofocus capability.

The A7RII has rubbish full frame 4K video - the crop mode is much better - so cry me a river about the 5DIV 4K crop video.

Your comparing a brand new camera just released to 3~4 year old models. Even the A7RII is 2 years old now. Lets wait and see what their replacements are going to look like.


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Charlie
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Jun 29, 2017 12:55 |  #74

gjl711 wrote in post #18389919 (external link)
Your comparing a brand new camera just released to 3~4 year old models. Even the A7RII is 2 years old now. Lets wait and see what their replacements are going to look like.

A6300 A6500 have 4K. A7rii is priced a lot higher, and rightfully so, it does phenomenal 4K in full frame mode AND in crop mode. Dont really have to get into that, however the 6D is priced like a 5Diii now (no 4K) fuji xt2 sortof (has 4k), and A7rii is getting close in price as well (has 4k).

If you're stuck with canon.... well then, your choices are limited. You could eat the loss and wait and pray for another 5 years :-)

These decisions are tough, but canon knows that photogs wont leave for lack of video features. Didnt Leica just come out with a camera omitting the video features that the previously added :-P

Maybe Canon wants to follow the leica recipe :-)

either way, in 5 years, you can get your mjpeg 4K in crop mode, happy now?


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Jun 29, 2017 13:49 |  #75

ma11rats wrote in post #18389833 (external link)
The 'first impressions' videos all on youtube showing the AF points make it clear it's taken off the much smaller sensor setup of the 80D. It's a similar thing with the 7D2/5D3. The 7D2 points go out WAY further than the 5D3

The 5D3 and 7D2 AF arrays appear to be similarly sized. The smaller sensor in the 7D2 makes the AF array look larger in comparison. Given the smaller 6D form factor it seems reasonable it would inherit an xxD AF sensor.

TDP details why AF points are clustered in the center of the frame. See 'AF Point Coverage'.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com …-autofocus-explained.aspx (external link)

The solution to AF point distribution is mirrorless. It will come eventually.

The 6D2 is a nice incremental upgrade that fits its target audience well. It's an uncomplicated camera that should produce beautiful images for reasonable price.

As for 4k, given the market position of the 6D, I have doubts the typical user is going to have a PC or Mac spec'd to deal with large volumes of 4k content. The processing and storage demands aren't trivial. If you're going to spend a large chunk of change on compute and storage, you're probably not looking at a $2k enthusiast body for your main film making device.

Canon made the right technical decision but a bad marketing call omitting 4k and dual card slots imo. Sometimes it's worth getting stuff on the spec sheet to appease the vocal minority.

Lee


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