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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 28 Jun 2017 (Wednesday) 23:15
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6d2 is here.

 
Patbil10
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Jul 07, 2017 12:53 |  #706

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18395645 (external link)
Conjecture now, but the viewfinder AF system on the 5D3 might still be better,. ( I'd agree there is a good chance.)

There's also the focus point coverage in the viewfinder, which is quite limiting in the 6D2 (all squished together in the center). Focus/recompose is the only method when using the rule of thirds for composition.


Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon EOS M5, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II,Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro, Sigma 35mm Art, Tamron SP 85mm f/1.8, EF-M 22mm f/2, Canon ef-m 15-45, Rokinon 14mm f2.8 and other stuff...

  
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Patbil10
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Jul 07, 2017 13:05 |  #707

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18395868 (external link)
Ok, so the way I see it is:

With phase detect, you do your best to put the little red square where you want it to focus, and hope that it really does focus exactly where you put the red box. . This could be problematic because the camera or lens could be off by an extremely slight bit, and I won't even know that it is missing my exact mark. . Even perfect micro-adjustment won't solve the problem, because cameras miss focus by wee little bits in challenging conditions, even if they are calibrated perfectly. . This is particularly true when the thing I want to be in absolutely perfect focus has very little contrast, and an area extremely close to it hs a lot of contrast. In these situations, the camera often picks up on the area with a lot of contrast and focuses on it, even thought it isn't exactly in the center of where I put the tiny little red box.

With touchscreen focus (DPAF), you touch the part of the image that you want to be in perfect focus, then you wait a second to see what, exactly, is highlighted. . Then you touch it again to see if exactly what you want is highlighted. . Repeat and repeat and repeat until exactly what you want is finally highlighted. . This seems to be extremely precise and accurate, albeit slow to achieve the degree of precision that I am demanding.

If what I have described above is the way things really are, then I can see a huge advantage to using dual pixel AF with a touchscreen, because I will know exactly what parts of which feathers are in perfect focus when I photograph birds. . With the phase detect, I could be off by 2 or 3 millimeters and I wouldn't even know until I got home and viewed the images on my big 5K monitor. . This is a very big real-life problem for me because I often miss focus by the very tiniest of margins.

.


I guess I've never seen my cameras highlight exactly what's in focus when using DPAF. I do see this however on my M5 while using focus peaking...

Perhaps I'm missing something here ? Can I set my 5D4 and M5 to show exactly what's in focus while using DPAF ? Or is this a Sony thing ? Thanks.


Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon EOS M5, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II,Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro, Sigma 35mm Art, Tamron SP 85mm f/1.8, EF-M 22mm f/2, Canon ef-m 15-45, Rokinon 14mm f2.8 and other stuff...

  
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Stregone
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Jul 07, 2017 13:28 |  #708

Patbil10 wrote in post #18396389 (external link)
I guess I've never seen my cameras highlight exactly what's in focus when using DPAF. I do see this however on my M5 while using focus peaking...

Perhaps I'm missing something here ? Can I set my 5D4 and M5 to show exactly what's in focus while using DPAF ? Or is this a Sony thing ? Thanks.

Something to think about here is that focus peaking isn't as amazing as you think if you have never used it. It is very useful, but it doesn't show you exactly what is in focus. it isn't measuring the focus, it is using an edge detect filter to show you edges that are above a certain sharpness. This will highlight what is in focus as well as a fair bit in front of and behind what is in focus. Sometimes contrasty OOF areas can get highlighted too. Also if you have a subject that is in focus but has no contrast edges focus peaking will not highlight anything.


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Patbil10
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Jul 07, 2017 13:33 |  #709

ma11rats wrote in post #18395959 (external link)
Canon's M line is finally regarded as a solid product but that's still APS-C and their lens list is subpar to be friendly about it. Will they be developing lenses for the M line or are we just going to deal with the adapter? Will they be making their FF mirrorless EF capable? No sports photographer is ditching their 1dx for a mirrorless where you have to deal with an adapter attached to their big white tele.

I have an M5 with the 22mm F2 and the not so great kit lens. I also have the Canon EF-M to EF and EF-S, which opens up a crap load of great lenses. That said, if Canon never makes another EF-M lens, I won't cry. :-)


Canon 5D Mark IV, Canon EOS M5, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II,Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro, Sigma 35mm Art, Tamron SP 85mm f/1.8, EF-M 22mm f/2, Canon ef-m 15-45, Rokinon 14mm f2.8 and other stuff...

  
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ma11rats
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Jul 07, 2017 14:12 |  #710

Patbil10 wrote in post #18396406 (external link)
I have an M5 with the 22mm F2 and the not so great kit lens. I also have the Canon EF-M to EF and EF-S, which opens up a crap load of great lenses. That said, if Canon never makes another EF-M lens, I won't cry. :-)


I thought about upgrading my original M(going to my 6yr old) next year. After playing with the m5 and the 77D at best buy, I still prefer the slr body/ergonomics. Add the fact that I have to use my FF primes attached to the adapter, I've got an awkward, front heavy setup that is no longer small in bag.


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AlanU
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Jul 07, 2017 14:39 |  #711

rantercsr wrote in post #18396104 (external link)
Personally i had similar strugglea with sony a6500 as far as ergonomics...
And low light AF issues at family affairs and other events ..

, i do know people use sony mirrorless with success at events but i felt they were too slow..

Although i hear the new A9 is a whole different story.. but at 4500bucks its a bit too much to have in a single body for me..
Anyway those were the 2 biggest reasons i bought the 80d.. and sold the a6500

Even though if you ask me image qualiy , on terms of information retained in raws and video were better with a6500, the shooting experience has been better with 80d..i do miss eye af tho.

No sure how much longer thw a7sii will be mine.. maybe the 6d2 will replace it.. or maybe im thinking i dont need full frame .. i keep insisting to myself that i need atleast one full frame .. but the cameras i want are crop sensored

I dont think i can be satisfied with just the 80d.. (but i do want the canon af reliability so the 80d stays)..
So something most likely mirrorless.. will replace the a7sii , if i do sell it

The Sony A9 is cheap at $4500 LOL after taxes Canadians pay $6700 CDN !!

I still prefer the full frame look and image quality over my 80D. The thing about having this Canon crop body is versatility and very good IQ. Like you I would have a hard time just owning the 80D as it would not meet all my needs (personal preference). I like the Fuji 24mp sensor with 10-24mm UWA IQ and 5dmk3 w/ 16-35 f/2.8mk2 image quality over the 80D with 10-22 UWA.

I do like fuji render so my Fuji X-T2 will remain in my mirrorless secondary system. I've genuinely tried to use my Fuji more for some events but I still feel the AF fails me from time to time in response. AF is fast when the light is ample or high contrast is present but it's slow sometimes in some situations and I've missed "money shots" that I normally would never miss with my Canon. I have tolerance for slower AF for casual or non hired events.

I would appreciate high iso capabilities of the 6dmk2 and dual pixel af for video. Just think Canadians after tax will pay about $3000 for non professional camera!!! but killer prosumer body at a premium price.

Just can't wait to have the 6dmk2 in stores. We'll see gifted photographers showing real skills using the potent 6dmk2 new body. We've had lesser capable gear in the past!!! We are all gear whores lovin' new stuff but at the end of the day we must make due with whatever canon throws at us. If photogs do not want the 6dmk2 .......5dmk4 is really the only alternative $$$$$ I'll pony up $5000 but for my hired events I can easily rock a 5dmk3 getting similar IQ especially if your talking about putting files on 300dpi print!

I'm really bummed the 6dmk2 only has a single card slot. Even though I'm disappointed about that I may just buy it !


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Stregone
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Jul 07, 2017 15:22 |  #712

ma11rats wrote in post #18396445 (external link)
I thought about upgrading my original M(going to my 6yr old) next year. After playing with the m5 and the 77D at best buy, I still prefer the slr body/ergonomics. Add the fact that I have to use my FF primes attached to the adapter, I've got an awkward, front heavy setup that is no longer small in bag.

The size advantage of mirrorless is kind of a myth. The real advantage is the OPTION for small size. You can go tiny with a pancake lens one day, and the next put big heavy zoom on. Only wide angle lenses are smaller on mirrorless.


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aezoss
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Jul 07, 2017 16:13 |  #713

Stregone wrote in post #18396401 (external link)
Something to think about here is that focus peaking isn't as amazing as you think if you have never used it. It is very useful, but it doesn't show you exactly what is in focus. it isn't measuring the focus, it is using an edge detect filter to show you edges that are above a certain sharpness. This will highlight what is in focus as well as a fair bit in front of and behind what is in focus. Sometimes contrasty OOF areas can get highlighted too. Also if you have a subject that is in focus but has no contrast edges focus peaking will not highlight anything.

+1. Focus peaking nice to have but when on a tripod using manual focus 10x zoom is more precise for stationary subjects with my gear. Sony's implementation may be better.

I've been using ML on my 6D for a couple of years, no problems. White balance auto adjust is a handy feature, as is the intervalometer, raw histogram, focal length, distance and shutter count. Focus stacking & dual ISO look interesting. Haven't played with them yet.

Lee

6D+ML. Manual focus on the bottom center flower using 10x LV zoom. Red dots show in focus areas according to ML.


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Jul 07, 2017 18:44 as a reply to  @ AlanU's post |  #714

Try canadacamera.com, you only have to paid GST.


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x-vision
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Jul 07, 2017 22:24 |  #715

Over at FredMiranda they have 6DII raw files.

Unfortunately, 6DII's dynamic range (DR) seems to *not* have been improved from the 6D:
http://www.fredmiranda​.com …topic/1497323/2​5#14098826 (external link)

And while I could care less about the lack of 4K video and a second card slot, DR is very dear to me (hehe).

So long, 6DII, I really wanted to like you. :cry: vmad




  
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Jul 07, 2017 22:32 |  #716

Hmm, I am truly finding this hard to believe. Canon sensors have come a long way. The Author of the post himself mentions that the crop 80D with it's much higher pixel density is better. How can this be unless Canon opted to use 4 year old sensor tech even while putting today's tech in other bodies.

Canon says it is going to be better than 5D4 sensor.

Reading through a second time Canon was saying better at handling noise,. Usually I assume better noise handling goes hand in hand with more DR. but I am reading that one may use that firepower to get even better noise if you sacrifice some DR?

Hmm,.

or is it possible that the test on FM was flawed?


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gjl711
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Jul 07, 2017 22:40 |  #717

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18396773 (external link)
Hmm, I am truly finding this hard to believe. Canon sensors have come a long way. The Author of the post himself mentions that the crop 80D with it's much higher pixel density is better. How can this be unless Canon opted to use 4 year old sensor tech even while putting today's tech in other bodies.

Canon says it is going to be better than 5D4 sensor.

Is it possible that the test on FM was flawed?

Yes. Patience is warranted. From reading the posts the raw files are possible from pre-production camera.


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Jul 07, 2017 22:43 |  #718

All of that is possible CDS. As an example the Nikon D5 has much better noise handling than anything else in their range but the DR of that sensor doesn't match the previous D4/D4s let alone the D810, D750 or D610.


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Jul 07, 2017 22:44 |  #719

If that's the case, for some the camera will be less appealing, but for some it will be more appealing!


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Jul 07, 2017 22:45 |  #720

According to those that tested, every test file yields the same results, and Canon raw files are very telling.

The same low ISO DR as the 6D, but perhaps better high ISO... That tells me they aren't using the new sensor design, otherwise if they are, they are somehow crippling its output. It feels like it is just a larger resolution 6D sensor.


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