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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 28 Jun 2017 (Wednesday) 23:15
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6d2 is here.

 
Wilt
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Wilt. (3 edits in all)
     
Jul 20, 2017 13:07 |  #1156

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18404797 (external link)
i've been doing a ton of bracketed real estate interiors lately. Even with sometimes a 6 stop spread, I am still occasionally pulling back the highlights of the darkest shot and/or pushing the shadows of the lightest one ... and shooting at higher ISOs so I don't creep into super long exposures.

still having to bracket (even with a Sony) is the argument that plenty of people, myself included, have made against one or two stops of DR being a massive, life changing benefit.

Just wondering, are you attempting to use any supplemental lighting to reduce the DR of the scene (á la film-based architectural interior shooting) or merely trying to use digital's capabilities to the max, and avoid the use of supplemental lighting placement?


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Jul 20, 2017 13:08 |  #1157

Scoobert wrote in post #18406844 (external link)
Out of curiosity why not a 5dsr if you are going for pulling shadows?


I took that out on an eval loan back in Jan and I HATED the file sizes. Lr took forever(vs my current camera files) to load the previews while scrolling through images/editing and moving around the screen while zoomed in and editing skin. I specifically set up a mini session with 3 separate families to see how it would handle a session. After I was done working with 350 images I came to the conclusion there's no freaking way I want to deal with it for 1500+ images. ESPECIALLY since I deliver images to my clients at 8x12
I also found that I stumbled across motion blur often and that I had to pay more attention to my SS than normal. It's the main thing I dislike about my 7d2 when using it for portraits. I can handhold my 5dc with 135L at MUCH slower SS for example. (I'm rather shaky)

BUT I LOVED the images I got when I took it out for some wildlife shots. 5dsr+1-4mk2 is heaven to me I've got one or two images in my gallery with that combo. Oh the detail.....:)

I plan on replacing my 7d2 with the 5ds r as a specific use body when they come down to the $1500-1800 range. I will either have a 1Dx(I miss my 1Ds3 badly!) or 5d4 as a main body. The 6d2 single slot bothered me, and the news that I won't gain much play in the files in post pretty much secures the fact that I won't be buying it new. In fact, I'll probably just replace our 6d with another one used when it finally dies because it'll be so cheap. $700-800 for the original 6d is freaking awesome.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Jul 20, 2017 13:13 |  #1158

Wilt wrote in post #18406863 (external link)
Just wondering, are you attempting to use any supplemental lighting to reduce the DR of the scene (á la film-based architectural interior shooting) or merely trying to use digital's capabilities to the max, and avoid the use of supplemental lighting placement?

Strictly existing ambient light.

This was a really big project that required a lot of travel and already long days. There was no time for anything more than run and gun.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Wilt
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Jul 20, 2017 13:17 |  #1159

Petie53 wrote in post #18405057 (external link)
This thread has been running for 20 days, 68 pages, 1017 posts, 38,156 views!!!!
What have we learned??? ;-)a
Yep it is another rollout of a new Canon body with plenty of critical comments just like so many other new Canon offerings in the past. :mrgreen:

What we have learned:
Endless pointless bickering in debates about what we THINK is happening,

  • based on pure conjecture, or
  • as deviated in outcomes by questionable reports and analyses of 'preliminary files',
  • producing outcomes which are themselves questionable in validity
  • assuming internal processing/software which might or might not exist in reality



...and now we get to start the long process of doing the same, this time for the rumored 6DIII

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Wilt
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Wilt. (5 edits in all)
     
Jul 20, 2017 13:27 |  #1160

DaviSto wrote in post #18405313 (external link)
I'm always looking for information quickly and don't watch this sort of stuff for entertainment or because I haven't got anything better to do with my time. I can get far better entertainment elsewhere and the information is all I want from these people.

Maybe I'm just not made for You Tube!

It used to be said disparagingly, decades ago, "Life magazine is for people who cannot read, and Time magazine is for people who cannot think."
Sometimes I think that now the quote can be modified, "YouTube and video is for people who cannot read and who have plenty of time to waste watching things explained slowly so they do not have to think!"

I hate to admit that I have used AOL for 30 years (which I keep merely so that I do not have to notify everyone -- including web linked accounts that have my email address -- of an email address change), and one of the things I hate about it is that stories are available in text, but then they have a video which merely READS THE TEXT, and takes a whole lot longer than to skim the story. Ergo my second sentence in the above paragraph.


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TeamSpeed
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Jul 20, 2017 13:47 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #1161

We have also learned:

- preliminary raw files are indeed very close to what we will get when the camera ships (we know that from previous releases too)
- that we can no longer assume Canon will use newer tech in newer releases, or at the very minimum, won't go backward in IQ
- that in Canon's eyes, it seems IQ is secondary to other features like flip screens, wifi, touch screens, and a bit more resolution
- that some folks who don't really understand all the tech talk that is going on would rather just throw jabs and make fun of the others that do, or those that at least care
- that it is probably safer to not do preorders and just wait out for the reviews and let the masses be the beta testers
- that it is possible that Canon has likely hit some sort of technical wall at this point, without doing yet another sensor redesign
- to not sell your preceding body until you have received the successor
- Canon marketing is still very good at hype
- that there are still Canon diehards, that despite this setback, will just spend more money and get the higher end models


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rh18
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Jul 20, 2017 13:51 |  #1162

SixDeeFan wrote in post #18406750 (external link)
I REALLY want a 6D2! The $ is just sitting there under the mattress! But, how can I possibly justify selling the 80D and spending an additional $1000.00?

... for less DR. Crazy to think that the 80D outperforms it at low ISOs.

I'm in a similar spot (but coming from a 60D). I've been waiting anxiously for this camera since the rumors started heating up and had money saved up. On paper, it seemed like just what I wanted. But in reality, maybe not so much. Sigh. So instead of pushing me up to a 5DIV (way out of budget and quite frankly, overkill for me), they've pushed me down to an 80D (but still a nice upgrade for me). So good job protecting those 5D sales, Canon. Nice work.

The wait to go FF continues. Maybe poor press (and sales?) will mean a (much) shorter refresh cycle for the 6DIII.


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gjl711
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Jul 20, 2017 14:14 |  #1163

rh18 wrote in post #18406896 (external link)
... for less DR. Crazy to think that the 80D outperforms it at low ISOs.

I'm in a similar spot (but coming from a 60D). I've been waiting anxiously for this camera since the rumors started heating up and had money saved up. On paper, it seemed like just what I wanted. But in reality, maybe not so much. Sigh. So instead of pushing me up to a 5DIV (way out of budget and quite frankly, overkill for me), they've pushed me down to an 80D (but still a nice upgrade for me). So good job protecting those 5D sales, Canon. Nice work.

The wait to go FF continues. Maybe poor press (and sales?) will mean a (much) shorter refresh cycle for the 6DIII.

There is another option and you keep your Canon lenses.


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Jul 20, 2017 14:24 |  #1164

I was hesitant pulling the trigger on the 5D Mark IV for fear of better IQ in the 6D Mark II. I knew my 6D had better IQ than the Mark III. So personally, I'm relieved.


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Qlayer2
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Jul 20, 2017 14:24 |  #1165

I think it will be interesting to see how the price trends. The 6D came out in 2012 for $2,100 at release, and has really only fallen under the $1k mark for used in the last year or so, and refurb sales right around $1100-1200.

I wouldn't be surprised if the 6Dii hit those marks in 18 months, if the reviews continue to trend like this.




  
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Scoobert
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Scoobert. (3 edits in all)
     
Jul 20, 2017 14:28 |  #1166

rh18 wrote in post #18406896 (external link)
... for less DR. Crazy to think that the 80D outperforms it at low ISOs.

I'm in a similar spot (but coming from a 60D). I've been waiting anxiously for this camera since the rumors started heating up and had money saved up. On paper, it seemed like just what I wanted. But in reality, maybe not so much. Sigh. So instead of pushing me up to a 5DIV (way out of budget and quite frankly, overkill for me), they've pushed me down to an 80D (but still a nice upgrade for me). So good job protecting those 5D sales, Canon. Nice work.

The wait to go FF continues. Maybe poor press (and sales?) will mean a (much) shorter refresh cycle for the 6DIII.

A7ii, which is Sony's last release that in many cases already outperforms the 6dii or wait a couple months and see just how bad the A7iii will totally destroys the 6dii in every area?


I have had canon bodies since the AE-1 and was thinking of going Nikon because of the better sensors back when i bought the 5Diii. Just because it seemed liked Canon didnt care how far behind their sensors were. We are canon you have our glass and this is all your going to get, like it. I didnt switch to Nikon because of the glass and eco system at the time. Thats not a limiting thing these days with the nice Sigma's, Tamrons and the fact that you can put an adapter on them for sony.


Or wait 6 months and see what the 90D has and then 3 years from now you will see all that same stuff in the 6diii.


I love my 5diii but after 30 years I am pretty sure my next body will be a Sony.




  
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MrWho
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Jul 20, 2017 14:38 |  #1167

Geez, leave the internets for a week and this happens. Was waiting for the 6D2, but there are more lucrative M43 options with a pro 2.8 zoom out there for less than the 6D2, and maybe better in IQ if what I'm reading here is to be believed. I love Canon, I really do, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of room (or reason) to upgrade. Sadly, time to look elsewhere for a full kit with a good lens for under the $2k of the 6D2, even - *gulp!* - Sony. Never thought I'd say that.


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x-vision
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Jul 20, 2017 14:46 |  #1168

Wilt wrote in post #18406857 (external link)
Interesting to see how folks interpret things in ways in which none of us have understanding about the effects...like external A/D vs. on-chip A/D magnitude of impact.

Please speak for yourself. Some of us have a good enough understanding of these matters.

Certainly internal vs. external A/D conversion has a benefit, but on the face of if we have zero understanding of the quanitification of the benefit...while we CAN see the impact of smaller area pixels.

Fact is, the 5DS is 50Mpixel with pixel pitch of 0.004144mm vs. 5DIV having 30MPixel with pixel pitch of 0.055357mm, or the 5DS pixel has only 60% of the pixel area, leading to reduced S/N in the 5DS in order to support higher pixel count, which means less DR too.

Again, if you bothered to do some research, you'd know that you are wrong.

A larger number of smaller pixels produce better image quality overall than a smaller number of large pixels.
This is related to sampling frequency and to the electrical characteristics of smaller pixels (relative to their size, smaller pixels are actually less noisy than larger pixels).

Overall, mostly everything you said in your post is incorrect.




  
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Wilt
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Wilt. (3 edits in all)
     
Jul 20, 2017 14:57 |  #1169

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18406893 (external link)
We have also learned:

- preliminary raw files are indeed very close to what we will get when the camera ships (we know that from previous releases too)
- that we can no longer assume Canon will use newer tech in newer releases, or at the very minimum, won't go backward in IQ
- that in Canon's eyes, it seems IQ is secondary to other features like flip screens, wifi, touch screens, and a bit more resolution
- that some folks who don't really understand all the tech talk that is going on would rather just throw jabs and make fun of the others that do, or those that at least care
- that it is probably safer to not do preorders and just wait out for the reviews and let the masses be the beta testers
- that it is possible that Canon has likely hit some sort of technical wall at this point, without doing yet another sensor redesign
- to not sell your preceding body until you have received the successor
- Canon marketing is still very good at hype
- that there are still Canon diehards, that despite this setback, will just spend more money and get the higher end models

xinvisionx wrote in post #18406934 (external link)
I was hesitant pulling the trigger on the 5D Mark IV for fear of better IQ in the 6D Mark II. I knew my 6D had better IQ than the Mark III. So personally, I'm relieved.


...or that Canon simply has learned from the mistake of lost profits due to 5Dn unit cannibalization caused by the vastly superior (to 5Dn) IQ found in the 6D,
so it suppresses some of the 6DII IQ potential so as to stratify its product portfolio more strongly, driving those users who absolutely have to have better IQ upward in the product family to the 5DIV, where it enjoys better profit margin $ per unit.

As a 7DIII will be the top-of-line APS-C body, Canon may not hobble the 7DIII the same way in which the 6DII would be hobbled, as FF is always an 'upgrade' from smaller APS-C format.


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Jul 20, 2017 16:05 |  #1170

I guess we will have to see real world examples when the camera comes out. It not looking good for the 6D MKII from the preliminary results.

If the 6DMKII had the same or better dynamic range as the 5DIV, I may have upgraded. At this point, I am going to stay with the 6D and be happy :)

Maybe I will buy a new lens..


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