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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 28 Jun 2017 (Wednesday) 23:15
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6d2 is here.

 
John ­ Sheehy
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Jul 21, 2017 10:54 |  #1216

CheshireCat wrote in post #18407559 (external link)
Did you mean 5D4 ?
In any case, if you are concerned about SNR, even an old used 5D2 will be better than your 7D.

Not much of an upgrade, and a downgrade in some ways. I used both at the same time, and the 5D2 had more banding noise in many cases, and a crop from the 5D2 looked worse at all ISOs, despite having lower area-based high-ISO read noise. The first two 5D-series cameras had poor noise character.

The 7D(1) and 5D2 are both avoid-cameras, though, if base-ISO DR is important; they have issues beyond what DxO and PDR charts show.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Jul 21, 2017 10:58 |  #1217

mcoren wrote in post #18407569 (external link)
As a committed crop user who has been (mostly) lurking in this thread, I find all of this concerning because it doesn't bode well for the hypothetical 7D3 and 90D that are rumored for release next year. Those, however, are already the high end of the crop line, so maybe Canon will be more willing to push the envelope with them.

I wouldn't mind modern base-ISO DR in the 7D3, but the lack of it would not keep me from buying it, if it gets other things right. I use the 7D2 mainly for wildlife at above-base ISOs. The main reason I would have bought a 6D2 is modern base-ISO DR, and I don't currently plan to buy one.




  
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CheshireCat
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Jul 21, 2017 11:38 |  #1218

John Sheehy wrote in post #18407616 (external link)
FF sensors give you less noise pretty much only when you want and/or accept shallower DOF.

Uhm... not exactly.
That may only happen if you need to stop down to match the same DOF as the crop _and_ the higher exposure time is not an option, therefore forcing you to increase ISO or push the image in post. Does not happen very often.

Add the fact that stopping down the lens will reduce optical aberrations, and you will see why FF cameras usually render better IQ than crop cameras of the same generation.


1Dx, 5D2 and some lenses

  
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Pippan
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Jul 21, 2017 15:24 |  #1219

mcoren wrote in post #18407569 (external link)
If Canon isn't willing to advance their technology, Sony or Nikon will, and then Canon will lose customers, not just a few high-end sales in favor of low-end.Mike

Yup. Canon is doomed.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Jul 21, 2017 15:56 |  #1220

Pippan wrote in post #18407792 (external link)
Yup. Canon is doomed.

And just like that,

It's on!!!


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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mwsilver
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Post edited over 1 year ago by mwsilver. (3 edits in all)
     
Jul 21, 2017 16:12 |  #1221

Pippan wrote in post #18407792 (external link)
Yup. Canon is doomed.

OMG. The first half of this thread was in praise of this upcoming camera despite the fact that some folks criticized it's features as not being competitive. Members who expressed negative thoughts, including me, were roundly chastised. Then a few early test reports, especially from DXOMark, came out. Almost everyone seems to have done a 180 degree turn on the 6D Mark II, criticizing this new body and predicting doom and gloom for Canon. What makes this so amusing is that, to the best of my knowledge, no one here has still seen or used this camera, and if DXOMark sensor scores were the absolute standard for any Canon shooter on this forum then very few of us would still be shooting Canon. I suspect that once this camera is actually in the hands of the shooters for which it was designed, the pendulum will likely swing partially, if not fully back in the other direction. Lots of speculation and wasted energy IMHO. in a very few weeks we'll all know for certain how this camera performs in real world situations..


Mark
Canon 7D2, 60D, T3i, T2i, Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, 30 f/1.4. Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS, EF 35 f/2 IS, EFs 10-18 STM, EFs 15-85, EFs 18-200, EF 50 f/1.8 STM, Tamron 18-270 PZD, B+W MRC CPL, Canon 320EX, Vanguard Alta Pro 254CT & SBH 250 head. RODE Stereo Videomic Pro, DXO PhotoLab, Elements 15

  
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RodS57
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Jul 21, 2017 16:31 |  #1222

mwsilver wrote in post #18407830 (external link)
OMG. The first half of this thread was in praise of this upcoming camera despite the fact that some folks criticized it's features as not being competitive. Members who expressed negative thoughts, including me, were roundly chastised. Then a few early test reports, especially from DXOMark, came out. Almost everyone seems to have done a 180 degree turn on the 6D Mark II, criticizing this new body and predicting doom and gloom for Canon. What makes this so amusing is that, to the best of my knowledge, no one here has still seen or used this camera, and if DXOMark sensor scores were the absolute standard for any Canon shooter on this forum then very few of us would still be shooting Canon. I suspect that once this camera is actually in the hands of the shooters for which it was designed, the pendulum will likely swing partially, if not fully back in the other direction. Lots of speculation and wasted energy IMHO. in a very few weeks we'll all know for certain how this camera performs in real world situations..

A voice of reason?????

Are you sure you're in the right thread? :-)

Rod


>>> Pictures? What pictures? <<<<

  
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Pippan
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Jul 21, 2017 16:34 as a reply to  @ mwsilver's post |  #1223

I forgot to add the sarcasm emoji (whatever that is). I'm sure Canon will continue to fulfil its obligation to its shareholders by maximising profit for some time to come. I get tired of reading that Canon is doomed because someone's personal fantasy isn't fulfilled.


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Apricane
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Jul 21, 2017 16:37 |  #1224

I don't think that it's only someone's personal fantasy that Canon not deliberately backtrack on its sensor technology in its newest camera, and are therefore asking those who wanted a 6D with decent AF to accept a trade-off if they were to upgrade (beyond the extra dough that upgrading implies).


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Jul 21, 2017 17:33 |  #1225

Pippan wrote in post #18407842 (external link)
I forgot to add the sarcasm emoji (whatever that is). I'm sure Canon will continue to fulfil its obligation to its shareholders by maximising profit for some time to come. I get tired of reading that Canon is doomed because someone's personal fantasy isn't fulfilled.

Well, I thought that you were probably referencing the somewhat infamous DOOMED thread from a couple of months ago in a silly manner.

I suspect you were. That is what I was trying to do It's nice for those of us who try not to take things too seriously to have that kind of silly stuff to reference. Yes I am very disappointed Canon made what I feel is a foolish decision to either use old tech, or throttle this camera's output. It's stupid. Really. It is. But that's the perspective of one guy on a couch with a smartphone in his hand and a beer on the table in front of him.

There were a boat load of predictions about how Canon would fit this camera into the product line up, and I bet no one thought they would absolutely crush the low ISO DR. That is what is so shocking.

But the fact remains that this camera will sell. And it will meet the needs of many people. Just because Canon did something some feel is stupid doesn't make those new camera owners stupid.

There will be an untold number of outstanding images created with the 6DII, an untold number of smiles created from those images, and an untold number of turds that fling poop at those that enjoy their new camera. I ain't flinging no turds.

Cheers, y'all.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Pippan
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Jul 21, 2017 17:49 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #1226

So true. I am certainly one who expected a high low-ISO DR, on-chip ADC sensor and was hoping for other improvements on the 6D, basically a FF version of the 80D I love. I'm a bit disappointed too but I seriously doubt it will cause many to flock to Nikon or Sony as is often suggested when Canon doesn't do something that someone wants. And you are right, many will take fantastic, smile and satisfaction-inducing, possibly even award-winning photos with this camera.


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Apricane
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Jul 21, 2017 17:53 |  #1227

Maybe. In the meantime, I'm hoping that the general dissatisfaction with Canon's offering may drive down the price faster...


Apricane Instagram (external link) flickr (external link) 500px (external link)
6D | 77D | T2i | TT685C & 430EX II & 270EX II
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mwsilver
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Jul 21, 2017 18:02 |  #1228

Pippan wrote in post #18407842 (external link)
I forgot to add the sarcasm emoji (whatever that is). I'm sure Canon will continue to fulfil its obligation to its shareholders by maximising profit for some time to come. I get tired of reading that Canon is doomed because someone's personal fantasy isn't fulfilled.

My post was not a specific response to your's, although it was the immediate trigger. I had been thinking about posting my view of this whole thread since yesterday morning.


Mark
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mwsilver
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Jul 21, 2017 18:04 |  #1229

Apricane wrote in post #18407895 (external link)
Maybe. In the meantime, I'm hoping that the general dissatisfaction with Canon's offering may drive down the price faster...

That's not going to happen.


Mark
Canon 7D2, 60D, T3i, T2i, Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, 30 f/1.4. Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS, EF 35 f/2 IS, EFs 10-18 STM, EFs 15-85, EFs 18-200, EF 50 f/1.8 STM, Tamron 18-270 PZD, B+W MRC CPL, Canon 320EX, Vanguard Alta Pro 254CT & SBH 250 head. RODE Stereo Videomic Pro, DXO PhotoLab, Elements 15

  
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Jul 21, 2017 18:14 |  #1230

I'm curious if backlash, criticism, complaining can be more detrimental for new products now vs 5-7 years ago. There are way more reviewers/blogger/vlog​gers/youtube..ers out there than when the 5d2 was in it's prime and people wanted to start making their own videos. So moving into the 5d3 there was some -it's not as good as nikon d800(810)- negative reviews but it still was an awesome seller.

People complained about the 6d's basic AF but that was really the only major complaint. Now we have a lot of options and I think Canon's going to see critical bad mouthing about DR in ways/quantites they haven't seen before. And this is on top of the expected lack-of-4k negativity it'll receive. There was more growth in IQ with the 5d3 -> 5d4. Whereas the 6d -> 6d2 seems to just be focused on growth in function. That's not to say it won't have 'less' noise but we haven't even got the new body on the shelves and there's tons of bashing based on no DR growth. That seems like it's going to be the achilles for this, otherwise awesome, new camera. Will it get recommended in stores? Will sales staff push customers to other cameras? I'm actually really interested to see if this body comes close to the sales as the original 6d.

Will the reviewers/bloggers/vlo​ggers directing new FF customers to other non-Canon options going to have more of an impact this time around?


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