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Thread started 24 Apr 2017 (Monday) 13:14
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400 DO II vs. 500 f/4 II

 
MatthewK
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Jul 08, 2017 11:37 as a reply to  @ post 18397052 |  #166

Normally you have your outdoor gear, to include a pot and portable stove for boiling water. Now, if you were suddenly dropped into the wilderness Bear Grylls-style, boiling water would be a challenge without a container that could be used to boil said water.


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Jul 08, 2017 13:29 |  #167

MatthewK wrote in post #18397111 (external link)
Normally you have your outdoor gear, to include a pot and portable stove for boiling water. Now, if you were suddenly dropped into the wilderness Bear Grylls-style, boiling water would be a challenge without a container that could be used to boil said water.

I've heard that dandelion greens are great to eat, and don't need to be boiled... but there might not be that many to be found in the woods.

So if lost, I guess your strategy might be to try to make it to a park or suburban lawn where dandelions are plentiful.


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Jul 08, 2017 15:13 |  #168

Archibald wrote in post #18397193 (external link)
I've heard that dandelion greens are great to eat, and don't need to be boiled... but there might not be that many to be found in the woods.

So if lost, I guess your strategy might be to try to make it to a park or suburban lawn where dandelions are plentiful.

There are actually an immense amount of dandelions growing in wilderness woods and meadows. I have seem great quantities of them growing in the wild, both here in the northwestern United States, as well as back in the northeastern U.S. They are probably one of our most abundant, wide-ranging wild plants.

I have eaten them from time to time, but to be honest I don't really like them.

I'm still confused about the stinging nettle - first Medicine Man said they were nutrition-free, then he said they are nutrition-rich. Mayhaps he is pulling our leg with the double-talk?

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Jul 12, 2017 03:10 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #169

No, my bad, I miss typed at first. Nettles really are chocked full of goodies.

Now there are vessels to boil water everywhere, almost anywhere in the woods or fields there is dirt under your feet.
Dig a hole and you have a vessel. I have dug a hole, lined it with a spare clothing article, built a fire beside the hole, heated
rocks (don't use river rocks they explode), once the rocks are super hot put them into the hole on top of a couple of rocks
that prevent direct contact with the clothing article.
If you are lucky enough to find a bush or tree with really large leaves they will work to line the hole. If you can find sizeable bamboo
then you have an instant vessel if you can cut a hole in it.
Vessels and fire are not a problem unless you live in my temperate rainforest where everything is constantly damp...but even then
there are ways, just depends on what's in your possibles bag :)


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Jul 26, 2017 05:24 |  #170

Dear Diary,

It's been a few weeks now, and I flat out admit to missing the 400 DO II. The weight of the 500 is a little annoying, which I knew going in, but is the extra stop of light from not using a TC worth the cost/weight? This has been the #1 question since the start, and I knew that it would take a while owning both before I could come to my own conclusions. On the bright side, the 500 is phenomenal in the IQ department (so is the DO).

One intended benefit from having the 500 is that I'm considering using the 100-400 II + 1.4 TC more again, for times when I want to go lighter. The venerable zoom was seeing 0% use when I had the DO II, but now I think it'll get the nod more often. I'm heading to Florida tomorrow, and the 100-400II is in the bag; neither the 400 DO or the 500 would be considered for this trip (birding may occur, but mostly won't), but in the event that it was a bird-centric trip, it'd be nice carrying the DO and not the 500. For instance, I just got the MindShift PhotoCross 13 sling bag, and the DO II can fit, so I could take it if I wanted to. There's the size advantage showing it's benefit.

A very small part of me is weighing (pun?) whether or not to reverse my decision, and return to the DO II. Part of the joy/pain of this hobby, I guess, sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error (and $$$) to figure out exactly what you need in the end.


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Jul 26, 2017 07:54 |  #171

^tried to tell you in a loving way :)
Now Florida, bird venues. I've shot a bunch of them...TAKE the 100-400ii with 1.4TCiii on the 1D body
and you'll rule the world.
Well that is from memory (the vast majority of my Canon kit is now sold).
Current hands on is that the a9 + 400DOii works a charm :) and that is a kit this old man
can wield.
Don't you know that the 600DObr is forthcoming....that is when the 500ISii will become really heavy ;)
But seriously, when do you really need 600???? Not in Floridia. 400 with TC is golden there. Want the proof?
Here it is (though some are with a 500ISii)-
https://www.flickr.com …/albums/7215768​0274375832 (external link)


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Jul 26, 2017 09:14 |  #172

That you did, Robert. :-) Your insights were/are very valuable in this decision making process. The A9 sounds like an incredible camera, how are you getting along with going from the Canon ergos to Sony's?

I'm sticking to the 500 for the forseeable future to see how I adapt to it, and I believe it'll take some time (like it did with the DO). The recent 100+ degree, humid weather made being outside unbearable, and the extra weight in that soup was a penalty. I can't wait for the cool fall/winter days, which is when I'll be more active outdoors. My main point of contention with the 500 is the lack of a comfortable position for my left hand, as this is the only place that the weight starts bothering me when bracing. The lens barrell is just too fat.

In a way, balancing use time with the 100-400 is the logical way I had envisioned it, so this is the proverbial "where the rubber meets the road" of my plan. I'm really looking forward to using it on this upcoming trip!


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Jul 26, 2017 09:49 |  #173

MedicineMan4040 wrote in post #18411609 (external link)
Well that is from memory (the vast majority of my Canon kit is now sold).
Current hands on is that the a9 + 400DOii works a charm :) and that is a kit this old man
can wield.

Hey MM, I read your previous comments about the a9 with a Canon lens.
Boy, you sure got me interested. Looking forward to renting the a9 and adaptor.


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Jul 27, 2017 00:45 |  #174

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #18411681 (external link)
Hey MM, I read your previous comments about the a9 with a Canon lens.
Boy, you sure got me interested. Looking forward to renting the a9 and adaptor.

This isn't the thread to tout the a9, just remember I didn't have any choice but to shift to Sony...but Frank, Matthew I've been with Sony since the NEX-5 so I'm used to the vagaries of that system...ergos of the a9 are outstanding WITH grip. It would be too small without.
Yes the 400DOii (all I have left besides the 70-300L Poof is using with her EOS M-5) really is working uncannily with the Sony excepting the loss of several of the focus modes and only 10fps---but AF/Af-tracking/and acquisition speed is top drawer. I wouldn't hesitate to use the a9 at any Florida birding venue. I say Florida just because every place I've shot their I used and did well with 400 and/or 400 with 1.4TC. Speaking of TCs the a9 doesn't care if it is 1.4 or 2.0.
I'll be curious what I do when Sony issues an e-mount 400mm prime....Matthew maybe the timing will be good for you to re-add the DOii :)


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Apr 01, 2018 05:18 |  #175

Mathew,thanks for this thread,it's been a real joy to read through.I came from a 300F2.8 is to the 400 DO is II ,the 500is II always featured in my thinking ,but I went for the lighter choice. Whether that was the right choice without living with these beasts how can one know?? We are all individuals persuing our own niches of wildlife image making. I've only been using the DO II for a few months Matt, alot of dull grey light and being time pressed,means few chances in cool light to see what she really can do. Mathew this lens was the second biggest purchase in my life,so I have no way to try both bar renting ,and renting wouldn't give me time enough to evaluate,with my experience level.

I have tended to specialise on few subjects mate,our UK brown hare being one I just adore. I up graded simply because my 300 was no longer supported here by canon.that means little if someone can fix an older lens,but having been told by a friend he had the last switch plate in EU made me move to an upgrade quicker than I probably would have,other wise. So I got the DO both for use with ext 's and that portability. I am working up a technique were I can get to them (hares) ,it's part wait in the right spot part move to the best spot,which might mean a crawl for a couple of hundred yards. I've also armed myself with a little induro hi hat tripod. 'it's a pain to get out in the filed a leg on a dead stem is a disaster I'd slide over. But with a little gimbal it helps on those occassions where one is simply waiting for a dozy hare to wake up and do sommit:lol: it also helps when panning : I struggle panning off my elbows when lying on the floor. Not to mention a tripod set right is always going to help with IQ

Mathew so many of your emotions I have gone through have I done the right thing being the biggest. It has to be said that not being the most affluent guy,the 500 was a bigger stretch for me financially,one that if I've got my really sensible head on was good I didn't make. I got an incredible deal because of blackfriday deals and also had to part ex my beloved 300,so now here I am with this 400DO II as my only lens. I shoot with a 1Div so suspect I won't really see the best of her until I upgrade the camera,leastways with the TC part of things.

Maybe what I do is slightly unusual this very light supertele really works for me,I yearn to be close to me subject but found I really need to back off a bit,the 400 makes it easier for me to get into that sweetspot I desire. the weight is a godsend when crawling long distance with little cover. The intangible with the DO ii for me is just how it handles,for me it's incredible. Mathew I came to this as a sort of arty guy I paint wildlife have done since childhood,looking to combine painting(with light I guess) with my obsession with wildlife and nature. From the off I felt as a guy not rich monetarily wise lenses like this would always be out of reach for me, financially. But I could work around that lack of reach because I've always been able to get pretty close to my country's wildlife,for me that was my in. The aspect of extenders meant I could add a bit of reach to the 300f2.8 and now the 400DOii if I so desired.

For me this was the right tool for the job I needed it for, I'm unsure as to whether I made the right choice,I feel I have but my lack of expertise will always make me question myself. I could have stayed with the 300 in the mark ii guise and remove the unsupported monkey off my back. But I did want that bit more reach. The 100-400,might well be the best tool for me hares,with a prime..............hmm​m , when they come to see what I am i'm scuppered,the min focus distance being a player there beyond the ability to zoom.. but i know every now and then that reach 800mm at f8,is something i'll one day utilise.

It's a remarkable lens this 400DO ii i do see it as a niche product.I love the fact it's handling is opening doors for some older guys,because of it's deminutiive size and allowing them to continue,as with Robert MM here ,whom i'd also thank. For me that handling really opens door to images that maybe I wouldn't have otherwise,that's a tuff call to make ,but I believe it is true,leastways for me. It's quite nice in some ways only having one lens to shoot wildlife an birdz,my rig is tiny,I still don't have a "proper" tripod mind this little hihat is wicked for my needs . Horses for courses I guess.

I'd add in here for the brits,my experience with canon was not great,a little word of advice,buy from somewhere who has stock if you have any form of deadline. My experience with canon UK was a complete mare,it appears demand for this lens is higher than expected and Canon can't track a batch of 6K lenses once they get put on a boat,they don't even know what is beiing shipped or has been ordered. I was promised a delivery daye which turned into weeks waiting correspondence from canon a nightmare,my shop were awesome by the way LCE leamington. But be careful guys,i'd hate what happened to me to happen to another

Thanks Matty, really great thread for me to read,cheers for the honesty here all the luck with your choices,not easy all this is it??? I'm a happy bunny lens wise,just trying to work out which camera to save for now

all the luck
HAPPY EASTER

stu




  
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Apr 01, 2018 06:51 |  #176

I own the DO for a good reason -- size/weight.

Otherwise, I'd have a 400 f/2.8


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Apr 07, 2018 11:35 as a reply to  @ Sounds's post |  #177

Hello Stu,

First off, thank you for your personable addition to the conversation here. It was a joy for me to read, and all of your observations are spot-on with the internal struggle most all of us photographers must make at some point or another. It seems that you know exactly what you are looking to photograph, so that should make things somewhat easier for you, right? :-) If you can find that happy spot where you're 100% satisfied with what you have now, my advice is to stop reading these forums, and go out to shoot photos!

When I made this thread, I was in a similar situation with regards to the necessity for maximum light gathering at a focal length best suited for my subjects (small birds), vs. the physical size/bulk, and finally, it had to be financially feasible. The topic of affordability plays such a huge role in making these choices as well, and at a certain point most hobbyist photogs like us come up against that wall where it's uncomfortable trying to justify an even more expensive purchase for our hobby.

The 400 DO II is fantastic, you can rest assured that your choice will bring you years of hare-photographing enjoyment. With the 1.4 and 2.0 tele-converters, you have a super flexible setup that can get you some serious reach when needed. Shoot around with the 1D4 for a while and see if you get on with the focal lengths; if not, decide if you need more or less reach and go from there. I can tell you whole heartedly that if it's more reach you need, the 80D paired marvelously with the 400 DO II, very sharp and clear, and it further reduces bulk.

The 100-400 II is also spectacular, adding that zoom versatility for when subjects creep under that MFD. From my experiences though, after using the zoom and prime on the same outing, it was rare that I needed to switch to the zoom because I figured out how to get into the position needed for the prime. That's the beauty of prime shooting, in that it sometimes gets you to be more proactive in planning shots. Zooms are vital though, and the 100-400 is a trusty companion.

Happy shooting!

Matt


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Apr 23, 2018 11:51 |  #178

MatthewK wrote in post #18601929 (external link)
Hello Stu,

First off, thank you for your personable addition to the conversation here. It was a joy for me to read, and all of your observations are spot-on with the internal struggle most all of us photographers must make at some point or another. It seems that you know exactly what you are looking to photograph, so that should make things somewhat easier for you, right? :-) If you can find that happy spot where you're 100% satisfied with what you have now, my advice is to stop reading these forums, and go out to shoot photos!

When I made this thread, I was in a similar situation with regards to the necessity for maximum light gathering at a focal length best suited for my subjects (small birds), vs. the physical size/bulk, and finally, it had to be financially feasible. The topic of affordability plays such a huge role in making these choices as well, and at a certain point most hobbyist photogs like us come up against that wall where it's uncomfortable trying to justify an even more expensive purchase for our hobby.

The 400 DO II is fantastic, you can rest assured that your choice will bring you years of hare-photographing enjoyment. With the 1.4 and 2.0 tele-converters, you have a super flexible setup that can get you some serious reach when needed. Shoot around with the 1D4 for a while and see if you get on with the focal lengths; if not, decide if you need more or less reach and go from there. I can tell you whole heartedly that if it's more reach you need, the 80D paired marvelously with the 400 DO II, very sharp and clear, and it further reduces bulk.

The 100-400 II is also spectacular, adding that zoom versatility for when subjects creep under that MFD. From my experiences though, after using the zoom and prime on the same outing, it was rare that I needed to switch to the zoom because I figured out how to get into the position needed for the prime. That's the beauty of prime shooting, in that it sometimes gets you to be more proactive in planning shots. Zooms are vital though, and the 100-400 is a trusty companion.

Happy shooting!

Matt


Hey Matt, sorry slow in reply,it will be my lot at this time apologising,i'm grafting me sox off basically, too many hours. so not only am I time pressed but damn forgetful,hey ho mate,what's new:oops:

Cheers for the kind reply, again great thread mate appreciate your efforts here !! I'd love to have both the other lenses mentioned as well, if I'm really honest,tools for a job Mathew. I also know I'd pretty much always have the wrong 'un in my grubby mitts for a given image/situation,so there are plus points,to having one lens ,even a niche one like this;-)a

. My choices would probably echo yours with two cameras,mind the physicality of crawling with two fills me with dread. I do take your point on the zoom aspect. I've sort of a hankering for wider though,,love the concept of animalscapes,if that makes sense to you,ie beastie in surrounding,shot close much wider dof.But I'll stop there , as I'm apt to go off on one.

It's a ball to use,this DO Matt,I love shooting against the light and i'm very curious about the BKG's it will ,and sort of is already, producing.............​..


and you buddy:-), have a great time with your exploits to craft an image

all the luck

stu




  
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May 19, 2018 11:12 |  #179

So basically we need a 500 F4 DO; otherwise 500 F4 II will likely need a monopod to deal with all day.

I'm hoping for a 500 F4 DO = a lot of standard 500 F4 II's on the used market for enticing prices :twisted:

Personally I've just been honing my skills in terms of approach and so far have been able to get fine results at 1/15th on the 100-400 II




  
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May 19, 2018 13:05 |  #180

markesc wrote in post #18628396 (external link)
So basically we need a 500 F4 DO; otherwise 500 F4 II will likely need a monopod to deal with all day.

I'm hoping for a 500 F4 DO = a lot of standard 500 F4 II's on the used market for enticing prices :twisted:

Personally I've just been honing my skills in terms of approach and so far have been able to get fine results at 1/15th on the 100-400 II

I don't think 500 f/4 DO will happen. It's a suicidal move for Canon as far as 500m f/4 II sells go.
Probably that is why they are still hesitant to bring out the rumored 600mm f4 DO.


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