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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 08 May 2017 (Monday) 20:07
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AlanU
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Oct 07, 2017 12:41 |  #346

Full frame or crop sensor topics will continue but I can foresee in the future small bodies medium format camera's becoming more mainstream.

If people discussed mainly doing print then crop sensor is on a level playing field. If high iso gets thrown into the mix the new latest crop sensors are doing a pretty good job in providing nice files for print.

The latest topics both emphasize weight and sensor size in the camera world. If weight is not a concern I'd lug a full frame any day over my canon or fuji crop sensor.

Since I use both sensor types I'll pick and choose whatever the situation. Just recently I've been seeing how I can push the limits of the 5dmk4. As a Canon shooter I've never been able to get away with some photos in such low light. I'm very impressed with the 5dmk4 sensor. However in good light I'm extremely pleased with my 5dmk3 but all of my Canon zooms are now showing a very noticeable improvement/difference in micro contrast/sharpness with the 5dmk4 sensor.

I do find I get sharper family group shots with my full frame sensor over my fuji. This is more of a higher nit pick on computer screen but if I print either fuji or Canon does just fine.


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Wilt
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Oct 07, 2017 13:56 |  #347

AlanU wrote in post #18467903 (external link)
Full frame or crop sensor topics will continue but I can foresee in the future small bodies medium format camera's becoming more mainstream. .

For as long as the prices are in excess of $8000, medium format digital will continue to be impeded from becoming really 'mainstream'!


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Oct 07, 2017 15:49 |  #348

aladyforty wrote in post #18467869 (external link)
wow what a long thread Ive just gone through, found myself nodding and shaking my head to some of the comments. I own 5DIII 7DII and a Fuji X100 and have found they all have their pros and cons.

5DIII is superior for landscape and portraits IMO. Stick the 135L on it and I dont think it can be beat (except by later model full frame cameras or perhaps the latest Fuji's). But when it comes to wildlife unless I'm almost on top of the animal I think the 7DII is better. I use a 600mm lens that I actually purchased to use with full frame thinking Id get better shots but ended up putting it on my original 7D and no, I did not get soft shots, Id regularly shoot up to ISO 4000 with that camera without hesitation.

Nowadays that lens is pretty much permanently on the 7DII because I find I get more detailed shots with it (for wildlife) than the 5DIII.

recently discovered I could pull back more from the 7DII than the 5DIII in dark shadows as well, I'm sure I will get poo pooed for that comment but its just my experience.

I still shoot with my X100 and carried it all around Cambodia recently and the images still surprise me just how good they are.

I sell some of my work and at a recent exhibition I had some prints for sale. from all cameras. In the end I actually sold more images taken with 7DII. Its about the image not the camera and while there is no denying a full frame will produce better image quality in most cases the everyday person seeing your work in print could not give a toss what you took it with. something about an image will catch their eye and they never ask what camera you used.

personally I think having bath formats is great, I got the 5DIII thinking it would totally replace my 5DII and 7D but it turned out not to be the case. If money was not an issue Id have 5D4 and pray the follow up to 7DII is even better than the previous model, think I will always want both though, plus a mirror-less setup as well but maybe I'm just being greedy, love them all.

A very good summary of the pros and cons of FF versus crop.

The most important thing is the picture, and that reflects on the photographer's choices and skills.

After that, it is a matter of choosing the right format for the job. Most serious photographers shooting different genres will need both crop and FF... and maybe a third format as well.


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DSMS
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Oct 07, 2017 21:21 |  #349
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Not sure on a 3rd format being necessary, but, I agree that a crop and FF body are a good combo...

I used 7D and the current 7DII for motorsport (with drift photography, the 8 and 10 FPS were very handy), but I still covet a FF. My pic is the 5DSR (if the wife will sign off on it)...

I would imagine, with that and a 7DII, I'd be set for a good few years...




  
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aladyforty
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Oct 07, 2017 21:51 |  #350

DSMS wrote in post #18468143 (external link)
Not sure on a 3rd format being necessary, but, I agree that a crop and FF body are a good combo...

I used 7D and the current 7DII for motorsport (with drift photography, the 8 and 10 FPS were very handy), but I still covet a FF. My pic is the 5DSR (if the wife will sign off on it)...

I would imagine, with that and a 7DII, I'd be set for a good few years...


I wish I could have a camera that did it all but Im not sure it exists, even 5D4 from what Ive read from bird shooters, unless you can get close you lose detail in the cropping, its all about compromise i guess. Ive worked out what situations work best for my cameras. If i had to give up two and only have one Id keep the full frame though


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AlanU
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Oct 08, 2017 03:44 |  #351

Wilt wrote in post #18467934 (external link)
For as long as the prices are in excess of $8000, medium format digital will continue to be impeded from becoming really 'mainstream'!

Well sometimes it seems hobbyists have deeper pockets than many full time photographers when it comes to gear acquisition.

In Canada the GFX-50S body alone is about $8100 before tax. To meet my needs I'd be required to purchase a lot of lenses so i'd have to stop feeding my kids or feed them instant noodles for months :)

Medium format is simply not even a nice to have for me even if I rent the body and lens. I just feel the full frame sensor is more than sufficient to please my IQ needs for my application. For some photogs Fuji doesn't jive with their personal preference but for me the IQ is ridiculously easy to produce nice images with little post processing. Using primes I feel I'm getting that rich files and shallow dof I see with full frame bodies.

In the crop sensor world I really appreciate the IQ fuji produces over my Canon 80D or even the IQ I see from the 7dmk2. What folks have not discussed is Canon needing to fill in the FL with a 24mm fast prime equiv for the crop world. Fuji just seems to be listening to their loyal users and filling in many blanks where photogs are wanting/demanding certain lenses. Fuji is actually listening !

For me my Canon FF is my go to system and the crop truly compliments the FF well. If I turn the story around....... If I only used a Canon crop sensor I would feel it absolutely necessary to buy a full frame. Fuji for me is a gem for "almost full frame image quality" but the AF just doesn't meet my needs in low light autofocus lock as it hunts. For hired outdoor portrait work I still use my full frame Canon bodies but lately I'll drag out my X-t2 when I'm shooting in good light. In my experience my 80D is a much better performer in AF than my X-T2 fuji body but I still prefer my Fuji render over my Canon crop sensor.

Talk about messed up personal preference :)

My guess is Canon will buckle and put a touchscreen on the next version ...7dmk3. I'd trade my 80D for the 7dmk3 style body with joystick.


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Wilt
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Wilt. (5 edits in all)
     
Oct 08, 2017 10:38 |  #352

AlanU wrote in post #18468257 (external link)
My guess is Canon will buckle and put a touchscreen on the next version ...7dmk3. I'd trade my 80D for the 7dmk3 style body with joystick.

In view of the fact that the pro 1DxII and 5DIV both have touchscreens, and the entry level T6n as well as the mid-level 80D, it's not too hard of a prediction to make that the 7DIII will have touchscreen.
And since Canon keeps the joysticks only on its pro bodes and 'prosumer' (which the nnD fell out of that category as of the 60D), I predict that Alan will become a 7DIII owner after the initial higher selling prices have dropped, after the early adopters at the bleeding edge of pricing have been sated.


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Oct 08, 2017 15:03 |  #353
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I can't wait to have a camera with a view screen that's covered in fingerprints and smudges... :p




  
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Wilt
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Oct 08, 2017 15:26 |  #354

DSMS wrote in post #18468524 (external link)
I can't wait to have a camera with a view screen that's covered in fingerprints and smudges... :p

If you have a smartphone, you already own such a camera! it merely does not also have nosegrease.


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Oct 08, 2017 15:45 |  #355

ecka wrote in post #18428045 (external link)
What are you talking about ... The FE 24-70/4 (426g, 73x94.5mm, $1100) is smaller, lighter and cheaper than the XF 16-55/2.8 (655g, 83.3x106mm, $1200).
Equivalent lenses are equal in size, but different lens designs may not be. So there's always a bit of variation. The EF 50/1.4 USM is smaller than the Zeiss Otus 55/1.4 or Sigma 50/1.4 Art.
Fuji XF 35/1.4 is nowhere near the FE 55/1.8, forget it. Try FE 50/1.8 instead. And it's 3 TIMES cheaper!
Then goes the XF 56/1.2 vs FE 85/1.8 ... Guess who wins that one :)

Kind of a poor argument because your looking st equivalence. It’s still a 1.2 Lens vs 1.8 so will always have the exposure advantage for times when higher shutter is needed or keeping iso lower


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Oct 08, 2017 15:52 |  #356

DSMS wrote in post #18468524 (external link)
I can't wait to have a camera with a view screen that's covered in fingerprints and smudges... :p

I guess you don't use a smartphone either?

I've seen this argument against touchscreens so many times and it always makes me roll my eyes. I loved the touchscreen on my EOS M, I'm glad they're finally becoming standard on most cameras.


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Oct 08, 2017 16:48 |  #357

Because we NEVER get smudges on the LCD now from our oily noses... :)


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Charlie
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Oct 08, 2017 22:15 |  #358

Talley wrote in post #18468546 (external link)
Kind of a poor argument because your looking st equivalence. It’s still a 1.2 Lens vs 1.8 so will always have the exposure advantage for times when higher shutter is needed or keeping iso lower

It's not, the equivalence argument goes along with a hit on iso. So when f2 apsc is compared to f2.8 FF, FF will need 1 so higher ISO to achieve the same shutter speed. Since FF apsc of the same generation have 1 so difference in noise performance, this is the equivalent.


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Oct 08, 2017 22:26 |  #359

Charlie wrote in post #18468721 (external link)
It's not, the equivalence argument goes along with a hit on iso. So when f2 apsc is compared to f2.8 FF, FF will need 1 so higher ISO to achieve the same shutter speed. Since FF apsc of the same generation have 1 so difference in noise performance, this is the equivalent.

What's a so?


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Charlie
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Oct 08, 2017 22:50 |  #360

Archibald wrote in post #18468725 (external link)
What's a so?

Iso, sorry phone correction


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