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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 03 Oct 2017 (Tuesday) 07:50
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On1 Photo RAW 2018

 
kirkt
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Post edited over 1 year ago by kirkt.
     
Oct 09, 2017 07:23 |  #46

digital_AM wrote in post #18467885 (external link)
Please email nathankeudell@on1.com. He is one of the product managers. I received an email from him asking for details with my experience working with RAW 2017.

Thank you for the address, not really worth the effort for me though. The 2018 version is interesting in theory, but after running some test images through it, there is no compelling reason to upgrade. The image quality is still average at best and fine detail is difficult to coax out of a raw file with the OnOne conversion.

kirk

EDIT - I also noticed, after reading some other folks' comments on another forum, that when you apply a sharpening preset in the Develop module, the preset applies noise reduction too, which, ironically, blurs the image. Good stuff.


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BigAl007
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Oct 09, 2017 07:28 |  #47

I downloaded the DXO, but at the moment I am working on a large batch of images the I used Magic Lantern's DualISO with, which require a DNG intermediate stage before final RAW conversion. Unfortunately DXO don't support DNG in any form, neither direct from camera, nor conversions. So I guess I won't be using DXO for any of those. It also doesn't have modules for my most used two lenses, and based on using the free 9 they had, being constantly asked if I want to download a nonexistent lens module all the time is annoying. I'm not really complaining about the lack of a module for the lenses, Adobe is missing lens correction data for one of them too, but I wish it would remember that no module was available for the lenses.

As far as the On1 is concerned, have they managed to include a method for saving the RAW conversion settings for an image so that you can go back to the RAW later? I know that was missing from the original 2017 release, a release which they were charging for. That seemed like a really big feature to have missing. I would want that before I would even consider trying the program.

Alan


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agedbriar
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Oct 09, 2017 07:49 |  #48

BigAl007 wrote in post #18468908 (external link)
As far as the On1 is concerned, have they managed to include a method for saving the RAW conversion settings for an image so that you can go back to the RAW later? I know that was missing from the original 2017 release, a release which they were charging for.

Alan

The conversion settings are saved and later re-applied now (build 2017.6).




  
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rrblint
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Oct 09, 2017 08:13 |  #49

BigAl007 wrote in post #18468908 (external link)
I downloaded the DXO, but at the moment I am working on a large batch of images the I used Magic Lantern's DualISO with, which require a DNG intermediate stage before final RAW conversion. Unfortunately DXO don't support DNG in any form, neither direct from camera, nor conversions...

Alan I don't normally use DNG for anything but I do occasionally get them to work on in the various "Before and After" RAW conversion games that I participate in. I have always been disappointed because I can't use DXO to process them. I have been playing with 11 since I downloaded it and it appears to work with DNGs in this version. Not sure if it will meet your needs but it does work with DNG.


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kirkt
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Oct 09, 2017 09:06 |  #50

FYI - I received the following response a few minutes ago.

kirk

Thank you for using ON1 Software!

We do apologize for this issue of upgrading. The newer programs are written to run on all the current operating systems. We have engineers and product developers who work very hard at developing and testing software so that all the components work together. The older products are written differently and cannot be updated to run on the current systems. This ensures that the product you purchase is fully functional and compatible with the newer operating systems. Unfortunately this is the standard for most software companies. They all charge for upgrades, and upgrades coincide with new operating system.
The upside is that all our new products contain new tools and perform better that the old products. Most of our engineers have worked here many years and have a thorough understand of the software.

We offer free upgrades for current products throughout their product lifecycle. If you are an owner of the Photo RAW 2017, you will receive automatic free updates for the program. For example, any upgrade to the Photo Raw 2017.xx to Photo Raw 2017.x.xx is a free update for you. However, any release of a new version is a paid upgrade (i.e. Photo RAW 2017 to Photo Raw 2017 2018). We tend to release one new release every year. However, you will never be forced to purchase the upgrade to continue using the program. You will be always be able to install and run the version of ON1 that you own as long as you are installing on a compatible machine. Does this make sense?

I can offer you a 20% discount, please use the coupon below:
onone20 - 20% off

Thank you for your patience and understanding.
If you need further assistance please let me know, I am happy to help!


Kirk
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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Oct 10, 2017 07:01 |  #51

Thanks, Kirk, for posting ON1's reply. Very revealing.

Total and complete BS. They say we own On1 Photo RAW 2017 for life. They also say they move on. Yes, ON1 Photo RAW 2017 users may receive a final update - to address the PR clamor caused by the unexpected ON1 Photo Raw 2018 reaction, but after that? ? ? I am not foolish enough to think they will tell their expensive developers and programmers to drop all work on a current product and go back and make a previous product better (or even fix bugs).

They say they release one new every year. Let's interpret that; "When you buy our product, you own it for life and get free upgrades for life. BUT because we re-release and relabel our products yearly, in effect you are really getting a one-year license for your money. If you want our latest, you'll have to buy it again. and again, and again... every year"

I'm done with ON1. First, their RAW developer is average at best and is surpassed by others. And their presets are among the most useless in the industry. They're even surpassed by the Nik presets which offer a wider variety and better presets - FOR FREE!

And I'm also done with Matt K (Matt Kloskowski) whom I emailed about this (he's ON1's number one spokesman). He didn't even have the courtesy to reply. Tells a lot about his character. Have a company be fair and ethical with consumers / photographers, Matt? Not if they pay you a buck to ignore it. Shill !


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kirkt
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Post edited over 1 year ago by kirkt.
     
Oct 10, 2017 07:20 |  #52

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18469568 (external link)
Thanks, Kirk, for posting ON1's reply. Very revealing.

Total and complete BS. They say we own On1 Photo RAW 2017 for life. They also say they move on. Yes, ON1 Photo RAW 2017 users may receive a final update - to address the PR clamor caused by the unexpected ON1 Photo Raw 2018 reaction, but after that? ? ? I am not foolish enough to think they will tell their expensive developers and programmers to drop all work on a current product and go back and make a previous product better (or even fix bugs).

They say they release one new every year. Let's interpret that; "When you buy our product, you own it for life and get free upgrades for life. BUT because we re-release and relabel our products yearly, in effect you are really getting a one-year license for your money. If you want our latest, you'll have to buy it again. and again, and again... every year"

I'm done with ON1. First, their RAW developer is average at best and is surpassed by others. And their presets are among the most useless in the industry. They're even surpassed by the Nik presets which offer a wider variety and better presets - FOR FREE!

And I'm also done with Matt K (Matt Kloskowski) whom I emailed about this (he's ON1's number one spokesman). He didn't even have the courtesy to reply. Tells a lot about his character. Have a company be fair and ethical with consumers / photographers, Matt? Not if they pay you a buck to ignore it. Shill !

While I hope that smaller companies trying to innovate and compete with a behemoth like Adobe succeed, I am not sure where the OnOne application fits in. There are now at least three others just like it and Affinity Photo and other smaller full pixel editors are also evolving into more stable, feature-rich products. I think Adobe's move to a subscription model and the backlash it created spurred folks like OnOne to go for it - they may have promised more than they could deliver in a rush to fill (claim) the outflow of former Adobe users. There will always be folks that form a loyalty to a specific product for any number of reasons, some probably unrelated to the actual price and quality of the product - but OnOne, like all of the other companies trying to capture part of the market, need to compete firstly with a solid, high-quality product. Their recent offerings may not fit this description for some people, me included, and those who were hoping that the 2018 update would address long-standing issues and missing features may be sorely disappointed to the point of abandoning OnOne for a competitor who has managed to make a solid, stable, high-quality product at a similar (or lower) price point.

I wish them well - their nostalgic intro in the webcast announcing 2018 made it seem like they are a small company daring to do something great. My feedback is - make it happen and make your users happy. It seems like some folks who are on the fence about their product might not be so happy. I cannot understand the pay-to-be-a-beta-tester mentality they have with the subscription OnOne Plus program, but if people are paying to be part of that community, more power to them. Maybe it is worth it to the members - I do not know.

I just launched PR 2018 Beta to see if it had a feedback menu item or similar way to reach out to OnOne for impressions and suggestions related to the beta - I got a spinning beachball on my Mac and had to force quit the app before the library window showed up. They should probably fix that.

kirk

EDIT - I restarted my computer and the app launches. FYI - there is a feedback button on the splash screen as well as in the Help menu.


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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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Oct 10, 2017 07:46 |  #53

kirkt wrote in post #18469574 (external link)
I am not sure where the OnOne application fits in. ...they may have promised more than they could deliver

They don't, and they did.

kirkt wrote in post #18469574 (external link)
...but OnOne, ... need to compete firstly with a solid, high-quality product.

And they don't. As much as I, too, hate the Adobe software rental marketing plan, I personally think Adobe's Process 2012 RAW development engine far surpasses anything ON1 is offering. And the Adobe 2012 engine is an antique in itself.

kirkt wrote in post #18469574 (external link)
...and those who were hoping that the 2018 update would address long-standing issues and missing features

And that is the crux of the matter. With their presentation of ON1 Photo Raw 2017, they made promises and did not deliver. Now they want the suckers who bought into their last empty promise to pay again to buy into what may end up being another empty promise.

We all make mistakes in life. I made one when I believed ON1 would deliver on the hype they promised leading into and before the ON1 Photo Raw 2017 release.

As stated above, fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

It really is nothing more than a bad dream. When you have one, you wake up... go about your day... and put it behind you.

That's what I'm doing with ON1. They made me promises, I paid money for those promises, and they did not deliver. And now they want me to pay more for the promises?

They're just a bad dream. Poof. They're gone. I'm going on with my day. Lesson learned - I'll never trust ON1 Software's promises again.


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davinci953
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Oct 10, 2017 11:19 |  #54

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #18469568 (external link)
Thanks, Kirk, for posting ON1's reply. Very revealing.

<snip>

And I'm also done with Matt K (Matt Kloskowski) whom I emailed about this (he's ON1's number one spokesman). He didn't even have the courtesy to reply. Tells a lot about his character. Have a company be fair and ethical with consumers / photographers, Matt? Not if they pay you a buck to ignore it. Shill !

I contacted ON1 through their regular support site on the 6th and still haven't heard back (even though the automated email response says a response will be forthcoming in 24 - 48 hours). I'm wondering if they're trying to sort out a upgrade policy that's fair to existing customers (at least I hope they are). I'll give them the benefit of the doubt at this point. I'd really like to support a smaller company but not if they don't deliver what they say they will. I like to take the approach of under-promising, and then over-delivering. The reverse approach doesn't sit well with customers (as evidenced by the responses here and on other forums) and diminishes your brand. Once that's damaged, it's hard to recover people's trust.




  
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digital_AM
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Oct 10, 2017 13:00 |  #55

davinci953 wrote in post #18469746 (external link)
I contacted ON1 through their regular support site on the 6th and still haven't heard back (even though the automated email response says a response will be forthcoming in 24 - 48 hours). I'm wondering if they're trying to sort out a upgrade policy that's fair to existing customers (at least I hope they are). I'll give them the benefit of the doubt at this point. I'd really like to support a smaller company but not if they don't deliver what they say they will. I like to take the approach of under-promising, and then over-delivering. The reverse approach doesn't sit well with customers (as evidenced by the responses here and on other forums) and diminishes your brand. Once that's damaged, it's hard to recover people's trust.

Your best bet is to email Nathan using the email I provided. Best of luck.




  
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lacogada
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Oct 10, 2017 13:06 |  #56

davinci953 wrote in post #18469746 (external link)
I'm wondering if they're trying to sort out a upgrade policy that's fair to existing customers

Wouldn't hold my breath on that one. :-) :-) :-)




  
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davinci953
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Oct 10, 2017 13:14 |  #57

digital_AM wrote in post #18469821 (external link)
Your best bet is to email Nathan using the email I provided. Best of luck.

Got it. Thanks!




  
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davinci953
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Oct 10, 2017 13:15 |  #58

lacogada wrote in post #18469828 (external link)
Wouldn't hold my breath on that one. :-) :-) :-)

Time will tell. ;-)a




  
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davinci953
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Post edited over 1 year ago by davinci953.
     
Oct 11, 2017 12:20 |  #59

I received a response from ON1 yesterday basically indicating that ON1 Raw 2018 is an optional upgrade and that I could continue to use ON1 2017. There was also mention of a planned update to ON1 2017 and a discount offer for ON1 Raw 2018 similar to what kirkt previously noted if I wanted to upgrade. At this point, the upgrade isn't compelling enough and the cost is too high for me to spend more money on ON1 after recently upgrading to ON1 Raw 2017 in June of this year. IMHO, this upgrade should be free for existing 2017 customers. I just don't see myself continuing to support ON1 from this point forward.




  
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Oct 11, 2017 15:16 |  #60

This release is definitely the best. I will say this release is what I was expecting last year and not this year. It is worth the upgrade IMO.


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