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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 15 Mar 2017 (Wednesday) 15:06
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Seriously thinking about moving to nikon

 
bobbyz
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Post edited 7 months ago by bobbyz.
     
Nov 06, 2017 10:07 |  #136

I have had cameras which had spot meter linked to AF point. But shooting manual exposure almost 99.99% so don't care for it. Problem with 6d Af points was only sensitive to horizontal or vertical. Center point is very good but there is only of those points. Nice camera but crippled by Canon on AF side of things.


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JohnnyKarate
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Nov 06, 2017 10:17 |  #137

Dj R wrote in post #18486625 (external link)
Dude. No.

Do you think it might be more helpful to go into detail as to why you disagree, instead of just saying "Dude. No."?




  
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Dj ­ R
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Post edited 7 months ago by Dj R. (4 edits in all)
     
Nov 06, 2017 16:30 |  #138

JohnnyKarate wrote in post #18485186 (external link)
I shoot Sony but have used Canon in professional studios, and agree with this statement 100%. I really can't see any reason to go from Nikon over Canon. Not only do they compete directly with each other, but Canon's lens lineup is established and no other lens manufacturer has been able to offer the diversity and value in any way that's comparable to Canon glass. Canon's not perfect, but they have a serious edge over Nikon.

nikon's glass is now just as good as Canon's

24-70 vr 2.8 E
70-200 vr 2.8 E
both better on nikon side

two new primes came out in the past year
28 1.4E
105 1.4E
next up will be the 50 1.4E
these E lenses were all designed FOR 40-50 mp bodies

the 200mm is older, but still one of the best primes ever

if you want to say that nikon glass is inferior, that is ok, it's your opinion. I shot canon from 2008 to 2015. And I disagree.

look at the bodies next,
the dr, ability to push shadows, recover highlights - serious difference between the two
in your studio, it doesn't matter as much to you. but for a wedding shooter? you better believe it matters.
other abilities such as spot metering linked to AF point

d800 vs 5d2 win for nikon
d810 vs 5d3 win for nikon
d750 vs 6di/ii win for nikon
d850 vs 5d4 huge win for nikon
d500 vs d7ii huge win for nikon

the have a d610 for low budget full frame

I left canon. but kept my cps membership.
when the 5d4 came out, I borrowed it and a 135L and the new 35L
The DR was improved, some nice new tech. But it wasn't enough to sway me from the D810!
and nikon then released the D850 which is to compete with the 5d4, and it eats it up for lunch!

I'm babbling sorry
And it's ok that we disagree!

but just don't tell me that nikon lens lineup is inferior. if you want to say anything, you could probably say that you're more familar with canon glass, and they probably have a slight advantage, you have that right.
but to say serious edge? check out a friend's 105 1.4E sometime.


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EricJrSax
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Nov 06, 2017 17:14 |  #139

Dj R wrote in post #18490245 (external link)
nikon's glass is now just as good as Canon's

24-70 vr 2.8 E
70-200 vr 2.8 E
both better on nikon side

two new primes came out in the past year
28 1.4E
105 1.4E
next up will be the 50 1.4E
these E lenses were all designed FOR 40-50 mp bodies

the 200mm is older, but still one of the best primes ever

if you want to say that nikon glass is inferior, that is ok, it's your opinion. I shot canon from 2008 to 2015. And I disagree.

look at the bodies next,
the dr, ability to push shadows, recover highlights - serious difference between the two
in your studio, it doesn't matter as much to you. but for a wedding shooter? you better believe it matters.
other abilities such as spot metering linked to AF point

d800 vs 5d2 win for nikon
d810 vs 5d3 win for nikon
d850 vs 5d4 huge win for nikon
d500 vs d7ii huge win for nikon

I left canon. but kept my cps membership.
when the 5d4 came out, I borrowed it and a 135L and the new 35L
The DR was improved, some nice new tech. But it wasn't enough to sway me from the D810!
and nikon then released the D850 which is to compete with the 5d4, and it eats it up for lunch!

I'm babbling sorry
And it's ok that we disagree!

but just don't tell me that nikon lens lineup is inferior. if you want to say anything, you could probably say that you're more familar with canon glass, and they probably have a slight advantage, you have that right.
but to say serious edge? check out a friend's 105 1.4E sometime.

I'm sorry but I gotta agree with DJ on this one. Canon glass was extensive and covered more of the popular focal ranges, but IMO it was absolutely an endeavor of quantity over quality. The only 2 Canon L glass that really impressed me were the 70-200 f/2.8L II and the 135 f/2.0L. And let's not forget,... Canon claimed ownership to a couple of the worst supposedly pro lenses with red rings ever,... that God awful 24-105L just one of note. Admittedly, their 70-200 f/2.8L II and 135 f/2.0L did stand the test of time very well,... especially the 135. But like you said, the 70-200 has been over taken by Nikon's current 70-200 and the Canon's 135 has been put to sleep not only by Nikon's 105 f/1.4E, but also by Sigma's 135 f/1.8. Face it,... any claim that Canon has glass locked up, is an outdated claim, and one that is seriously inaccurate these days.

I particularly liked the way you lined those bodies up,... sweet! I'd like to add that Nikon's aging D810 had a DR edge over the 5D4,... they didn't need to wait for the D850 to keep that crown. However,... the D850 was more like the relief you feel when you're home team scores an insurance run in the bottom of the 8th inning! Wiggle room!




  
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elitejp
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Nov 06, 2017 18:38 |  #140

I dont care what people shoot but you need to be conscious of the fact that many people are just copying and reposting what others say on forums.

They argue about glass that they have no intention of buying and then say that system is better.

The DR issue is just as insane. I know very little about photography but when nikon and sony started to up the game in that field i thought to myself wedding photographers need this. Landscape photographers need this. Portrait photographers need this. I cant think of anyone this doesnt benefit.

Nikon is a wonderful choice currently and at least are putting out interesting cameras. Canon not so much, i mean the interesting part. Of course canon is a very high quality product


6D; canon 85mm 1.8, Tamron 24-70mm VC, Canon 135L Canon 70-200L is ii

  
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davesrose
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Nov 06, 2017 18:45 |  #141

Nikon does make great glass, but Canon still has some specialty lenses that doesn't have direct comparisons. Interchangeable lenses aren't just relegated to 24-70, 70-200mm, 28mm, and 100 or 105. For architecture, Canon was the first to offer true tilt/shift, and they have a wider 17mm. Some well known macro photographers swear by the Canon MP-E 65mm, which is unconventional for having manual focus that goes to 5x. Nikon does offer a good wide angle zoom range zoom (14-24), but now Canon has a rectilinear 11-24mm range. The latest generation of of the referenced popular FLs are now more expensive for new Nikon lenses then the comparable Canon ones. Is it worth it? It remains to be seen, and is something one would consider about the total system. Right now, I would say that Nikon offers a better price/performance with their camera bodies: if I didn't have to lose money selling my Canon gear to get a D850 and lenses, then I would consider it. Apart from the 6D2, Canon did do a good job of improving their sensors as of late...and they're a large enough company to improve if felt under pressure.

Will competition with DSLR or mirrorless companies continue to drive sensor performance? That in itself might be a reason to stop the Nikon/Canon bickering, as dedicated camera sales continue to exponentially decline.


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Charlie
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Nov 06, 2017 18:52 |  #142

davesrose wrote in post #18490332 (external link)
Nikon does make great glass, but Canon still has some specialty lenses that doesn't have direct comparisons. Interchangeable lenses aren't just relegated to 24-70, 70-200mm, 28mm, and 100 or 105. For architecture, Canon was the first to offer true tilt/shift, and they have a wider 17mm. Some well known macro photographers swear by the Canon MP-E 65mm, which is unconventional for having manual focus that goes to 5x. Nikon does offer a good wide angle zoom range zoom (14-24), but now Canon has a rectilinear 11-24mm range. The latest generation of of the referenced popular FLs are now more expensive for new Nikon lenses then the comparable Canon ones. Is it worth it? It remains to be seen, and is something one would consider about the total system. Right now, I would say that Nikon offers a better price/performance with their camera bodies: if I didn't have to lose money selling my Canon gear to get a D850 and lenses, then I would consider it. Apart from the 6D2, Canon did do a good job of improving their sensors as of late...and they're a large enough company to improve if felt under pressure.

Will competition with DSLR or mirrorless companies continue to drive sensor performance? That in itself might be a reason to stop the Nikon/Canon bickering, as dedicated camera sales continue to exponentially decline.

consider simply upgrading is a losing proposition, in fact photography can become a black hole if you dont make money from it. The ditch is bigger if you're ditching the entire system, however, you can recoup a lot of your costs in used sales and/or buying used.


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davesrose
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Post edited 7 months ago by davesrose.
     
Nov 06, 2017 19:06 as a reply to  @ Charlie's post |  #143

Or simply hold on to your glass (which has much less depreciation then a digital body will have). Before digital photography, my SLR system was a Canon AE-1 and three prime lenses. With digital technology always improving, your digital body will become technologically outdated (unlike film which had the same resolving power whether you shot with MF or newer AF bodies). Lens depreciation, not so much. I first invested in Canon because at the time, they were the only ones to have a "mid level" FF body (the 5D). Now I have the glass that works for me. Also coming from where I was, the DR was much improved. It would be nice to have even cleaner DR with the D850 or 5D4, but still not worth the full price for my purposes.


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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Dj ­ R
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Post edited 7 months ago by Dj R.
     
Nov 06, 2017 20:52 |  #144

they are both awesome. I just had to put my foot down, when someone said canon had a serious edge, when every day lately (b/c of the d850) I'm helping someone come to nikon from canon, on the nikon forum I'm on (lens advice). since I came from canon recently. I still know all of the glass on that side as well. I used to own 16-35 2.8 24L 35L 50L 85Lii 135L 200L. 24-70 2.8ii, which I loved. for not having IS it was quite stellar.

but the nikon stuff is great too.


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Post edited 7 months ago by mdvaden.
     
Nov 09, 2017 23:42 |  #145

Dj R wrote in post #18490416 (external link)
they are both awesome. I just had to put my foot down, when someone said canon had a serious edge, when every day lately (b/c of the d850) I'm helping someone come to nikon from canon, on the nikon forum I'm on (lens advice). since I came from canon recently. I still know all of the glass on that side as well. I used to own 16-35 2.8 24L 35L 50L 85Lii 135L 200L. 24-70 2.8ii, which I loved. for not having IS it was quite stellar.

but the nikon stuff is great too.

If they cost the same amount of money, they could be considered near equally as good. If one costs more for the same quality, the story may change.

Do most of these good Nikon lenses offer image stablization compared to Canon counterparts that may have it? I haven't researched the Nikon lenses much, and probably read about Sony's new stuff the most.


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Drums
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Nov 10, 2017 00:38 |  #146

[QUOTE=Dj R;18490245]nikon's glass is now just as good as Canon's
.

d800 vs 5d2 win for nikon
d810 vs 5d3 win for nikon
d750 vs 6di/ii win for nikon
d850 vs 5d4 huge win for nikon
d500 vs d7ii huge win for nikon

the have a d610 for low budget full frame

Some Inaccuracy here; 5d2 released from 2008, D800 was 2012 they were never competitors.
The d800 & E and 5d3 were announced/ released about a month apart in 2012 the D810 was then released in 2014 much to the consternation of Nikon users as the release was so close to the predecessor.
Both the canon 6d and nikon d600 were released around september 2012 as entry level full frame cameras, by october 2013 Nikon had released the D610 due to the quality control issues with the D600. The Nikon D750 was released in September 2014 as a more in line replacement to the D700. The Canon 7d mk2 was released in september 2014 and the Nikon D500 was announce in January 2016. The 5Div was released in 2016 and the D850 is now released in the end of 2017.
What your list should actually read is;

D700 vs 5d2 sales win for Canon
d800 and d810 and D750 vs 5d3 HUGE sales win for canon you might as well put all 3 together they still didn't have the win and a sony win for the sensor(s)
D600 and D610 vs 6d (1) HUGE sales win for Canon, GARGANTUAN PR disaster for Nikon

While the Nikon D850 has great specs it seems like Nikon is throwing everything at this camera to be a success. when you consider the reports of sony outselling Nikon to go #2 (albeit for 1 month) and Lens rentals having just released data showing Nikon has slipped to 3rd in their rental data, Nikon really need this. My personal opinion is that I would like this to be a success for Nikon too as Canon need a good kicking too. hopefully the 6d2 is the wake up call Canon needs.




  
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EricJrSax
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Post edited 7 months ago by EricJrSax. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 11, 2017 08:21 |  #147

[QUOTE=Drums;18493162]

Dj R wrote in post #18490245 (external link)
nikon's glass is now just as good as Canon's
.

d800 vs 5d2 win for nikon
d810 vs 5d3 win for nikon
d750 vs 6di/ii win for nikon
d850 vs 5d4 huge win for nikon
d500 vs d7ii huge win for nikon

the have a d610 for low budget full frame

Some Inaccuracy here; 5d2 released from 2008, D800 was 2012 they were never competitors.
The d800 & E and 5d3 were announced/ released about a month apart in 2012 the D810 was then released in 2014 much to the consternation of Nikon users as the release was so close to the predecessor.
Both the canon 6d and nikon d600 were released around september 2012 as entry level full frame cameras, by october 2013 Nikon had released the D610 due to the quality control issues with the D600. The Nikon D750 was released in September 2014 as a more in line replacement to the D700. The Canon 7d mk2 was released in september 2014 and the Nikon D500 was announce in January 2016. The 5Div was released in 2016 and the D850 is now released in the end of 2017.
What your list should actually read is;

D700 vs 5d2 sales win for Canon
d800 and d810 and D750 vs 5d3 HUGE sales win for canon you might as well put all 3 together they still didn't have the win and a sony win for the sensor(s)
D600 and D610 vs 6d (1) HUGE sales win for Canon, GARGANTUAN PR disaster for Nikon

While the Nikon D850 has great specs it seems like Nikon is throwing everything at this camera to be a success. when you consider the reports of sony outselling Nikon to go #2 (albeit for 1 month) and Lens rentals having just released data showing Nikon has slipped to 3rd in their rental data, Nikon really need this. My personal opinion is that I would like this to be a success for Nikon too as Canon need a good kicking too. hopefully the 6d2 is the wake up call Canon needs.

Yeah,... you're right about the 5D2. That thing was way before the D800. But the D750 wad never meant to compete head-to-head against the 5D3, it was meant as a step beyond when entering into FF or an upgrade to your entry. A better/second option, if you will, for moving into FF.

If this thread were about video taping of the 70's and 80's, you'd be boasting about the HUGE and GARGANTUAN sales wins for the VHS platform,... still Sony's Beta platform was superior in every way. Sales performance is not always a direct and accurate translation for product performance.... fact is, it's often not. There are many many current examples all around us of superior products not selling as well as like inferior products. In most cases, resorting to sales figures is an act of desperation in debates like these when the battle of performance, features and specifications is clearly lost.

And when it comes to the cropped sports body,... well, no argument for the 7D whatever can be made. The D300 was first,... and the 7D matched and surpassed it ONLY because Nikon took a nap and forgot all about the development and release of a D400 offering! Then came the D500,... and Canon was forced to 'Stand Down'! Performance,... Features,... AND Sales!




  
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Drums
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Nov 12, 2017 17:38 as a reply to  @ EricJrSax's post |  #148

I think you will find that the D750 was more of a direct competitor to the 5d3, it was introduced at the then "street price" of the 5d3 had 6.5 fps and the 51 af points that was from supposedly the d800 et al. Nikon users on forums had been clamouring for a more direct replacement to the d700 than the d800 was (too many pixels - too large a file size). Like the D750 the 5d3 was untill recently listed as an enthusiast camera on some of their websites.

as for the claims about sales, the "gargantuan" bit refered to the PR disaster that was the D600 and not sales which I did describe as huge. The D600 had an embargo put on it in China, was replaced by the D610 within a year and Nikon had to offer replacement cameras to people who bought the 600. That is a worst case scenario for any company so describing that as Gargantuan is not hyperbole.
I never once said that the nikon cameras were not superior to Canon- in fact I do agree that there are many superior points in their favor. The Sensor is in the D850 and also the d810 and 800 obviously had more resolution and dynamic range, than any Canon. However the file sizes are huge. The d850 is approx 100mb files compared to approx 40 in the 5D4, not only does this create great pictures but it also requires more storage space and faster computers to post process at a reasonable speed. As for dynamic range, well I am not a landscape shooter, I have never hit the DR limit of my DR limited camera. I am sure there are many instances where almost 15 stops of DR at ISO 64 are useful but how many times do you really need that much without having a completely black photo? for myself I prefer higher ISO shooting, in which case both systems are much closer.
The Frame rate on the 850 seems fantastic, espescially when you include the stated buffer. However some reviewers (Matt Granger on youtube for one) are disputing the buffer claims. The AF module on the 850 seems to blow even the 1dx2 away, never mind the 5d4, untill you get into the small print. 153 af point of which 99 are cross type, sound great untill you see only 55 af points can be selected by the camera user and of those only 35 are X type. the Canon has 61 AF points of which 41 are X type all can be user selected, sounds like a draw to me. one place the Nikon did do a really good job is putting the XQD card in one slot, Canon should have used C-fast in the 5D4 but obviously felt that it wasn't needed. Also Nikon does have one feature in the metering which is better as it can be linked to the AF point whereas Canon is more center focused. I really think that while the headline features are good on a closer comparison there isn't that much of a difference- at least to draw Canon users of FF cameras.

You said using sales figures as an arguement was a mark of desperation I am pretty sure however that Nikon themselves will be more concerned about the sales figure and Market share than any customer will be. Nikons own main focus IS and ALWAYS WILL BE profit, that is the #1 priority, #2 is market share. Unfortunatly for Nikon their market share has slipped to the new entrant in the market which is Sony, Canon's has also lost market share but Nikon seems to be feeling it more. only in the last couple of weeks they announced a factory closure of a camera producing factory. There is a limited pool of people that will buy a $3000 camera, most people will be happy with their smartphone. To Gain Market share Nikon has to Target the Canon customers as Sony is producing smaller lighter cameras with about the same DR as Nikon. As A canon shooter myself, I really did look at the D850 but I just cant find a really solid reason on comparison to what I already have. This is why Sales and market share is pertinent to this conversation.




  
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mswobo
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Post edited 7 months ago by mswobo. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 13, 2017 21:01 as a reply to  @ post 18301857 |  #149

. Pixel peeping is the road to madness and empty wallets.[/QUOTE]


Spot on...from a guy who's jumping to Nikon for different reasons....most of my canon gear has been shed....but I always buy used and it didn't cost me that much outside the work of listing, boxing up and searching for used new gear.

Always buy good gear it holds value on the used market.

Good on your search,


Nikon D850 and a bunch of stuff, I have learned a lot here when I was shooting Canon, staying to keep learning..."Every time I set up I learn something new".

  
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intence01
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Post edited 6 months ago by intence01.
     
Nov 27, 2017 23:29 as a reply to  @ Drums's post |  #150

This. I switched a few times in the last few years, and now am seriously thinking about coming back to Canon. For a non-professional, Canon appears to offer more quality lenses at realistic price points. Lots of very good Canon glass that doesn't cost an arm/leg.

Nikon is in financial pain, their plan is to increase profit (ie raise prices). Not sure how long this will hold up with Canon not that far behind and Sony in the race as well.

Canon sells printers, video camera, calculators and who knows what else. Sony has even more businesses to keep them afloat. Nikon has seen their business get destroyed by the "good enough" mentality of smartphone users. Nikon's made several mis-steps in their DL 1" sensor lineup that got scrapped, their GoPro clone which was a fail, their Nikon 1 system etc. Will be interesting to see what happens, but things aren't perfect on the Nikon side either. Almost every major FF release has been plagued by recalls and issues (shutters, dust, AF points, etc.)

Canon's general build quality at a given price point has been better than Nikon as well. More lenses made in Japan, fewer lenses made in lower cost countries. May not be indicative of quality, but certainly shows that Nikon's focus right now is pure profit.

When I forget about the pixels and look at the images I love most, the system doesn't really seem to matter that much. The grass is always greener on the other side.




  
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