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Thread started 09 Jun 2017 (Friday) 10:57
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mystik610
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Nov 10, 2017 06:35 |  #7156

TRhoads wrote in post #18493243 (external link)
good to hear the Sigma 135 works well...for now the Canon is still doing great on both bodies. I like this image a little better than the other one, the other was a little bright on the light side for me, the light on the second one is better, not as harsh.

Yeah blew out the highlights a bit in the first. I'll go back and fix. Thanks for the critique!


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Nov 10, 2017 06:35 |  #7157

navydoc wrote in post #18493161 (external link)
The aircraft used for multiple skydivers to attempt record breaking numbers of divers jumping together flew overhead again today. I'm guessing they are practicing to do another record jump this weekend. These skydivers are out of the Perris Ca. airport nearby.

Even at an apparent focal length of 1200mm, these high flyers weren't easy to spot, let alone shoot.

Here's the full frame shot and another from more directly overhead.
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Hosted photo: posted by navydoc in
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forum: Sony Cameras

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Hosted photo: posted by navydoc in
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Coolest is the shark.


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TRhoads
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Nov 10, 2017 06:36 |  #7158

mystik610 wrote in post #18493244 (external link)
Yeah blew out the highlights a bit in the first. I'll go back and fix. Thanks for the critique!

I feel odd giving feedback like that sometimes...maybe it was intentional...and your images are always spot on.


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digital_AM
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Nov 10, 2017 06:38 |  #7159

TRhoads wrote in post #18493241 (external link)
there are enough complaints about photography being too far from reality already, and that the creative aspect is being lost...the Arsenal thing seems to be making that argument ever stronger...if I understand it correctly from looking at the Kickstarter and the rest I have read about it...it does all the work for you, basically tells you how to shoot a scene and does most of the work or at least tell the person behind the camera how to do it...I am not a fan...I think it makes it too automatic...just my two pesos...

This is why I dismissed the product initially. It’s the other features like focus stacking and image averaging for simulating LE that has me interested.


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TRhoads
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Post edited 7 months ago by TRhoads.
     
Nov 10, 2017 06:51 |  #7160

digital_AM wrote in post #18493247 (external link)
This is why I dismissed the product initially. It’s the other features like focus stacking and image averaging for simulating LE that has me interested.

even then...that is taking some of the work, and need for user knowledge and skill out...SR has been fun for a while...but for LE I have all but stopped using it. Getting back to traditional workflow, just because I get more out of it...I will still use it for interior architecture, because I see that as a place where it really makes sense, especially after I have been editing the last few nights working on multiple frames to blend into one image...but overall, I want to be the one to make the decisions...not be influenced by AI and the way everyone else does it...


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MedicineMan4040
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Nov 10, 2017 07:04 |  #7161

On the assumption the Riii will never support apps I just pre'd the Arsenal.
Remember one of my goals is to try and prevent/slow Alzheimers.....games/l​anguages/learning
new gizmos is one tool suggested by experts to use :)


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MedicineMan4040
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Nov 10, 2017 07:18 |  #7162

Sun up SNP


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mystik610
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Nov 10, 2017 07:45 |  #7163

TRhoads wrote in post #18493246 (external link)
I feel odd giving feedback like that sometimes...maybe it was intentional...and your images are always spot on.

Nah even if it were intentional I'm always open to critique!


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Nov 10, 2017 08:13 |  #7164

TRhoads wrote in post #18493256 (external link)
even then...that is taking some of the work, and need for user knowledge and skill out...SR has been fun for a while...but for LE I have all but stopped using it. Getting back to traditional workflow, just because I get more out of it...I will still use it for interior architecture, because I see that as a place where it really makes sense, especially after I have been editing the last few nights working on multiple frames to blend into one image...but overall, I want to be the one to make the decisions...not be influenced by AI and the way everyone else does it...

I hear you mate. I watched a video on luminar (I think It was that one) and they added light rays to a shot. It goes against the grain for me and I personally don’t like it. I do like compositing images but mainly surrealism type stuff when it’s obviously not real but the sort of stuff that is passed as real doesn’t seem right to me (personal opinion).

With SR app though my main use is night photography to allow clean images at high iso so really don’t want to lose that app or a version of the same process


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TRhoads
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Nov 10, 2017 08:43 |  #7165

xpfloyd wrote in post #18493296 (external link)
I hear you mate. I watched a video on luminar (I think It was that one) and they added light rays to a shot. It goes against the grain for me and I personally don’t like it. I do like compositing images but mainly surrealism type stuff when it’s obviously not real but the sort of stuff that is passed as real doesn’t seem right to me (personal opinion).

With SR app though my main use is night photography to allow clean images at high iso so really don’t want to lose that app or a version of the same process

I am right there with you...the concept of adding light rays to an image that did not have them...is no longer photography, its digital art...and then to pass it off as photography...bugs the *@#! out of me...

we have had these discussions in my local photo clubs...at what point is it not photography anymore...and can you really trust anything anymore...I myself am 100% open about what I do to an image, so much so that one of my presentations I give walks through the workflow for an image from start to finish...no secrets, and has for a couple of people made them re-consider previous misconceptions about my work. so this is a sore subject for me...our recent year end big show had some work that was clearly...over the top not photography anymore...pure digital art and it really rubbed me wrong.


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Post edited 7 months ago by rantercsr. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 10, 2017 09:07 |  #7166

its a touchy subject I suppose..

I like to make my photos as realistic as possible , but like to enhance ..

for example cityscapes , where you enhance the light in windows .. or even add more lit windows , otherwise some pretty dark boring high rises..

not sure who that needs to be ok with other than myself.. but when does it stop being a photograph? and turn into digital art
and it matters to me because I want to be a photographer more than a "digital artist"( if that's what you call it )

even wihth portraits .. I've been working at learning different retouching techniques
I get excited when I can get the skin looking flawless,, texture and tones.. but then I look at it a bit longer and no longer see the person , I just see perfect skin
so where or how do we find the balance of enhancing vs gone too far
I don't know:-)

and why has time come a sloths pace crawl since I preordered the a7rIII:lol:


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Nov 10, 2017 09:39 as a reply to  @ rantercsr's post |  #7167

I personally am not a fan of over processed skin in portraits, it looks like a mannequin to me...i am ok with removing blemishes that are not permanent features, but i dont overly process portraits...


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Post edited 7 months ago by mystik610. (3 edits in all)
     
Nov 10, 2017 09:47 |  #7168

rantercsr wrote in post #18493329 (external link)
its a touchy subject I suppose..

I like to make my photos as realistic as possible , but like to enhance ..

for example cityscapes , where you enhance the light in windows .. or even add more lit windows , otherwise some pretty dark boring high rises..

not sure who that needs to be ok with other than myself.. but when does it stop being a photograph? and turn into digital art
and it matters to me because I want to be a photographer more than a "digital artist"( if that's what you call it )

even wihth portraits .. I've been working at learning different retouching techniques
I get excited when I can get the skin looking flawless,, texture and tones.. but then I look at it a bit longer and no longer see the person , I just see perfect skin
so where or how do we find the balance of enhancing vs gone too far
I don't know:-)

and why has time come a sloths pace crawl since I preordered the a7rIII:lol:

Always an interesting topic and it really depends on what the intention of the photo. To me photography is something that goes beyond presenting what I saw with my eyes or what the camera saw...it's about creating a visual representation of the feeling of scene, or visually creating what my mind's eye saw. The key thing is that we are creating a feeling, not merely capturing an image, and there is very often a difference between what the camera sees and what I "see". With regards to skin corrections and what-not, the things we are correcting in post are usually things we did not notice when we saw our subjects in person because 1. Cameras capture unforgivingly detailed images 2. You do not gaze at people as critically in person as you would in a photo. But these things are important to correct because people have an inherent negativity bias and unflattering parts of a person will always dominate the photo if left uncorrected. So we correct flaws because they distract from what we saw in our subjects out in the field.

There's always the question of whether or not what we are photographing is real any more....I'd argue that reality is subjective. I.e. two people can look at the same exact scene and 'see' it (feel it) completely differently, but what one person sees/feels is no more real than the other..it's subjective. What I present in photo is simply my interpretation of a scene, but that does not mean it isn't real, because reality is subjective.

Of course there are some types of photography that are more involved with capturing an objective version of a scene with very little interpretation on the photographers part....mostly photojournalism. I consider wedding photography to be photojournalism, and I purposely don't do as in post than I would do for something like a cosplay shoot.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Post edited 7 months ago by David Arbogast. (5 edits in all)
     
Nov 10, 2017 09:54 |  #7169

Contributing my own perspective to this interesting discussion:

There are degrees of photography puritanism and every purist is convinced he has the right doctrine. I've interacted with a purist here on POTN who thinks that even recovering modest shadow detail in Lightroom is no longer photography and other people doing it and passing it off as photography rubs him wrong. Personally I'm pretty liberal about the subject of crafting art from photography: if it looks good as art then it is good as art imo. However, that's a great big IF. If you're going to fake something - sky replacement, background replacement, compositing, adding lighting effects, etc. - then it damn well better look great - it better look believable or it falls short of being good art.

I think architectural fine-art photographer Joel Tjintjelaar does amazing work, but it's way more crafted/contrived/fabr​icated and is less representational of actual reality than Serge's images with the added light rays. The difference is in the results. Joel's work looks insanely good, while Serge's photos with light rays look goofy and silly by comparison. BTW, J.J. Abrams destroyed his first Star Trek movie by adding in 721 lens flares throughout the movie imo; painful to watch!

Summing up, for me the issue isn't fakery, because I suspect nearly every photographer does something fake, but rather it's just about the quality of final results.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Nov 10, 2017 10:04 |  #7170

Chattahoochee Bend State Park with CV 65mm:

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