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Thread started 03 Nov 2010 (Wednesday) 12:49
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If ancient 30D is still good enough for National Geographic why upgrade your camera?

 
Bassat
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Dec 08, 2017 08:37 |  #211

Wilt wrote in post #18512039 (external link)
Yes, it is truly sad that folks will not even consider a 40D for their child who has expressed (perhaps what turns out to be only a passing) interest in photography, because the techology is 'low resolution' and 'too old'!

That is truly funny. Want proof that the camera matters much less than the photographer? My 8 year old grandson turns in the same general quality of work with his XSi/18-55 that he turns in with my 6D/35IS. I suspect many of us on the pages fit the same bill.




  
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davholla
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Dec 10, 2017 07:36 |  #212

Strontium wrote in post #18513268 (external link)
Maybe they get paid to shoot birds or sports.

Fair point, I was curious I have only have earned £15 to take a photo and that was a benefit in kind and my wife negotiated it - I would have given the photo away for free.




  
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davholla
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Dec 10, 2017 07:42 |  #213

Bassat wrote in post #18513289 (external link)
That is truly funny. Want proof that the camera matters much less than the photographer? My 8 year old grandson turns in the same general quality of work with his XSi/18-55 that he turns in with my 6D/35IS. I suspect many of us on the pages fit the same bill.

Presumably if the exposure is wrong or he took it in low light, it is easier to fix with the 6D after he has taken it?




  
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saea501
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Dec 10, 2017 07:55 as a reply to  @ davholla's post |  #214

I believe you have missed the point entirely.


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Post edited 11 months ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Dec 10, 2017 08:02 |  #215

I think the point is now that 7 years later, hardly anybody is shooting a 30D for things like this magazine, I am quite sure a vast majority have "upgraded" to something else. I could be wrong but it is on others to prove many are still using a 30d. :)

As has been stated before, all things and people and skills being equal, a better camera and lens will produce better results.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Dec 10, 2017 10:57 |  #216

.

philmar wrote in post #11218050 (external link)
If ancient 30D is still good enough for National Geographic why upgrade your camera?

Because National Geographic and other publications are not always looking for photos of stationary objects taken on sunny days with plenty of light. . The differences between cameras is most evident when shooting in challenging conditions, such as when shooting fast moving subjects, or when shooting in low light situations.

Additionally, the usage of the photo matters. . If you want someone to publish your images at small sizes for editorial use, then even a point & shoot will produce photos that are "good enough" for this usage. . But if you want your photos to be used at larger sizes, such as two page spreads, calendar usage, or full screen usage, then it helps a lot to use a camera that is comparable to those being used by the photographers with whom you are competing against for those premium sales.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Wilt
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Dec 10, 2017 12:01 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #217

OTOH assuming 8.5x11 single page size, the spread is only 17 by 11 inches,


  • assuming 300dpi dots per inch of ink on the offset printed page that means only 1700 by 1100 pixels!

  • Even at a very very high 600 DPI dots of Ink on the offset printed page that's still means only 3400 by 2200 pixels!

In other words a Canon 30D would be able to support about 500 dots per inch of Ink on a two-page spread. Much more resolution is beyond the ability of the offset printed page to reproduce

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Tom ­ Reichner
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Dec 10, 2017 12:09 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #218

Wilt,

With regard to printing/using at larger sizes, I wasn't talking at all about resolution. . In fact, what I was talking about has nothing whatsoever to do with anything objective, or that can be calculated mathematically.

I was talking about the fact that often times, photos from "better" sensors simply "look better" at bigger sizes, no matter whether the resolution is any different. . The "character" of the sensor, the color rendering, the way noise grain is handled, etc, all have a big impact on how good an image will look at a bigger size. . Math and calculations are often an inappropriate way to explain things in aesthetic realms such as photography and art.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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saea501
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Dec 10, 2017 12:46 |  #219

I've been a NatGeo member since the late 60s and have always loved their photography.

However.....when you look closely at the pictures in the magazine, and at the same time, if you consider the truly great quality of most of the pictures posted here and what gets heavily critiqued here, many of NatGeo's pictures would be lambasted as being out of focus, noisy and suffering from lens distortion.

Yet, there they are, published in a magazine that is world renowned for their great photography. And I'm sure that the magazine doesn't care too much what any given picture was shot with so much as the content and how it's expressed to the viewer. (as it should be ;-)a)

I'm sure too that most of their photographers do use much newer, more robust camera models as their primary concern is durability when used in harsh conditions and being thrown in and out of bags and, no doubt, banged around and dropped.

......just something I think about when I read the magazine.


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davholla
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Dec 10, 2017 14:07 |  #220

saea501 wrote in post #18514562 (external link)
I believe you have missed the point entirely.

I didn't miss the point, I just wondered if there was any benefits to having the 6D compared to the other (hopefully there is or why have the more expensive one?).
FWIW I do not have firm opinions either way.

(Not that I use the 6D).




  
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davholla
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Dec 10, 2017 14:08 |  #221

saea501 wrote in post #18514790 (external link)
I'm sure too that most of their photographers do use much newer, more robust camera models as their primary concern is durability when used in harsh conditions and being thrown in and out of bags and, no doubt, banged around and dropped.

......just something I think about when I read the magazine.

Very true the Canon 7D range is meant to be very durable when dropped etc.




  
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Wilt
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Post edited 11 months ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 10, 2017 17:32 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #222

No debate on the points you raise in either of your posts, Tom.
I merely expressed how simplistic is the decision "I need a better camera because of (resolution, noise)"...because the photo 'will not be acceptable for publication if it is not the newest generation'!


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Dec 10, 2017 21:24 |  #223

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18514568 (external link)
I think the point is now that 7 years later, hardly anybody is shooting a 30D for things like this magazine, I am quite sure a vast majority have "upgraded" to something else. I could be wrong but it is on others to prove many are still using a 30d. :)

saea501 wrote in post #18514790 (external link)
I'm sure too that most of their photographers do use much newer, more robust camera models as their primary concern is durability when used in harsh conditions and being thrown in and out of bags and, no doubt, banged around and dropped.

You are both right on the money.

NG uses my photos somewhat regularly in various different publications. Several years ago, I "upgraded" from using a 50D / 5Dc combination to using a 1D Mark 4. . Yet NG still, to this day, uses many of the photos that I took years ago with the 50D and the 5Dc.

So why did I upgrade? . Well, sure, I could sometimes take a picture good enough for NG with the 5Dc or the 50D - when the animals weren't moving around too rapidly, or when there was enough light. . But the 1D Mark 4 allows me to take MORE photos that are good enough for NG. . There used to be situations at dusk when I just couldn't get a good photo, but now in those same situations I can get a good enough photo with my 1D4. . Better gear increases the total number of photos I can get during the course of a day. . Many of the 1D4 photos that I sell could not have been taken with the 50D or the 5D.

The goal isn't to take a photo that is "good enough" for NG. . The goal is to license as many photos as possible to NG (and other publishers), so that one can have a continuous flow of income from such sales. . So one really needs a huge ____load of photos that are good enough for NG, and one typically demands of one's self to produce such photos every time one heads out with the camera.

These days, I often have encounters with wildlife and can't get a "good enough" photo, because my 1D4 simply isn't up to the task. So I will soon upgrade again, either to a 5D4 or a 1Dx. Why? So that I can take better pictures? Not really. Rather, so that I can take pictures of the same quality, but in worse conditions.

.

Wilt wrote in post #18514962 (external link)
I merely expressed how simplistic is the decision "I need a better camera because of (resolution, noise)"...because the photo 'will not be acceptable for publication if it is not the newest generation'!

I think that I understand what you mean.

Often times, the gear we have does not have enough resolution. . And the high ISO performance isn't good enough. . But we should identify the weak link in our gear and assess the gear according to the specific uses that we have in mind for our work. . Upgrading specifically to get more resolution doesn't make any sense if we are only going to make little 16" by 20" prints, and upgrading for better high ISO performance is unnecessary if we are always using artificial lighting and shooting static subjects. . We should have good, logical reasons for upgrading, and fully understand exactly what the upgrade will do for our imagery.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Wilt
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Dec 10, 2017 21:36 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #224

Precisely and accurately summarized!


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davholla
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Dec 11, 2017 01:39 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #225

Really good summary - I guess you can crop more as well with your 1D Mark4 and still get new photos.




  
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If ancient 30D is still good enough for National Geographic why upgrade your camera?
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