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Thread started 10 Dec 2017 (Sunday) 11:43
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5D4 or 1DX

 
AnnieMacD
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Dec 19, 2017 16:39 |  #46

umphotography wrote in post #18521640 (external link)
Im mot so sure I agree with this.

I cant find anything on the net to dispute this either. I believe the 5D4 is a little sister AF system to the 1Dx2 much like the 5D3 and 1DX1 systems were when they were introduced.

All I can do is tell you what I have seen and experienced in the field with myself and others who were shooting in identical conditions

The 5D4 guys were getting A LOT less keepers than I was with the 1Dx2 on our eagle trip. So much so that they were asking me how I had my camera set up.

Additionally

I had my 7D2 with me and it was set up as close to the 1Dx2 as I could get it

I was very disappointed with the 7D2 results. Extremely disappointed

I Probably had 20-25% less performance and keeper rate. I mean I was shooting in exact conditions and it missed with a much higher degree and frequency as compared to the 1Dx2.

ESPECIALLY BIF'S.- If i could pick it up and track it for a longer distance the 7D2 did just OK where as the 1Dx2 rarely missed a BIF once I had it tracked

The 5D4 guys, 2 of them, both had the same issues. We were shooting in terrible conditions. But they missed right and left

So Im not so sure the 1Dx2 and the 5D4 are the exact systems. I do not think this is a correct statement based on what I have seen with the 3 times I could get both bodies in identical conditions.

Not sure what Canon has done with this 1Dx2 but its a marked improvement over the 1Dx1. I have used both bodies a lot. I have never had a camera this accurate with an AF system. Especially servo use. It Never misses in servo. I have yet to miss a processional shot with the body. The 5D4 that my assistant used missed several processional shots.

So I dont think its the same. I think its a little sister version.

I totally agree with this even applying to the 1DX. I've used the 5D4 and 1dX in exactly the same conditions and have a LOT more keepers with the 1DX. Once it locks in AI Servo it never lets go. I'm so impressed with it and can't even imagine the upgrade to the 1DXII. (But I won't have to imagine for long as I'm upgrading soon!)


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butterfly2937
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Dec 19, 2017 17:44 |  #47

umphotography wrote in post #18521640 (external link)
Im mot so sure I agree with this.

I cant find anything on the net to dispute this either. I believe the 5D4 is a little sister AF system to the 1Dx2 much like the 5D3 and 1DX1 systems were when they were introduced.

All I can do is tell you what I have seen and experienced in the field with myself and others who were shooting in identical conditions

The 5D4 guys were getting A LOT less keepers than I was with the 1Dx2 on our eagle trip. So much so that they were asking me how I had my camera set up.

Additionally

I had my 7D2 with me and it was set up as close to the 1Dx2 as I could get it

I was very disappointed with the 7D2 results. Extremely disappointed

I Probably had 20-25% less performance and keeper rate. I mean I was shooting in exact conditions and it missed with a much higher degree and frequency as compared to the 1Dx2.

ESPECIALLY BIF'S.- If i could pick it up and track it for a longer distance the 7D2 did just OK where as the 1Dx2 rarely missed a BIF once I had it tracked

The 5D4 guys, 2 of them, both had the same issues. We were shooting in terrible conditions. But they missed right and left

So Im not so sure the 1Dx2 and the 5D4 are the exact systems. I do not think this is a correct statement based on what I have seen with the 3 times I could get both bodies in identical conditions.

Not sure what Canon has done with this 1Dx2 but its a marked improvement over the 1Dx1. I have used both bodies a lot. I have never had a camera this accurate with an AF system. Especially servo use. It Never misses in servo. I have yet to miss a processional shot with the body. The 5D4 that my assistant used missed several processional shots.

So I dont think its the same. I think its a little sister version.

I could not agree more. I have shot the 5D4 and it is a nice camera but the focus speed and accuracy and pixel quality is noticeably better on the 1DX2.


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umphotography
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Post edited over 1 year ago by umphotography. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 19, 2017 21:27 |  #48

butterfly2937 wrote in post #18522099 (external link)
I could not agree more. I have shot the 5D4 and it is a nice camera but the focus speed and accuracy and pixel quality is noticeably better on the 1DX2.


This has been my experience as well

I Cant say I know for sure because I have not shot both side by side in tough situations. It sounds like you have. What I do know is that the 1Dx1 system is better, much better, light years better than the 5D3.

I do know that the 1Dx2 is much better than than the 1Dx1. But if the 1Dx1 is excellent the fricken 1Dx2 is phenominal.

What I will argue about is that From what I have seen in the field under difficult conditions, the 5D4 Could not keep up with the the 1Dx2 nor produce the consistent imagery in the hands of very capable photographers......So I DO think its false assumption to think that the 5D4 has the same AF system as the 1Dx2....based on the results I saw over 5 hrs....It clearly does not

I could easily hit 9 & 10 frame keepers where as the 5D4's were lucky to get 3or 4 shots on the runs. Middle shots were often OOF. So I dont think they are the same


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Post edited over 1 year ago by CyberDyneSystems. (2 edits in all)
     
Dec 20, 2017 09:50 |  #49

There has been no counter argument, and yet you continue to argue that the 1DxII AF is faster with more keepers than the 5D4.

In a thread, who's title asks about a different camera all together.

Bravo.


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umphotography
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Dec 20, 2017 10:23 |  #50

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18522476 (external link)
There has been no counter argument, and yet you continue to argue that the 1DxII AF is faster with more keepers than the 5D4.

In a thread, who's title asks about a different camera all together.

Bravo.


Who's arguing ???

I have used all the bodies in question in this tread.

Experience doesnt matter anymore ??

They are all going to perform a little different.

I dont think I have posted any information that is not relevant to the conversation. But hey your the mod. you get the final word.


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Dec 20, 2017 18:50 |  #51

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18522006 (external link)
5D4 AF without question beats all other 1D bodies (and therefore all other Canon bodies ever made)

Interested in your thoughts.

On my longer Canon lenses I found the 5D4 to be fast and accurate with good tracking. The AF system was very flexible too. I like the extra F8 AF points. However they didn't lock as quickly or track quite as well as my 1DX (Mk1).

Certainly the 5D4 will produce "Better" images under most conditions, nobody would dispute that. Having said that, when AF is the critical point/feature, I find the 1DX to be a better camera for my personal uses. If my uses changed slightly then the 5D4 would, probably, be a better camera for me - but they haven't so it's not in my Gear List.

Now a 5D4 as a second body is my dream - just trying to sort the finances...........

I really like the 5D4 but for me (just me?) the 1DX still has the edge - just:-)


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Dec 20, 2017 18:59 |  #52

Ltdave wrote:
=Ltdave;18521960im leery of refurbished. even being Canon factory. I got a 7D refurb and was completely unhappy with it. the AA filter was very strong and interfered with the IQ (in my humble opinion) and the exposure was VERY sensitive to being spot on. over/under by more than a stop was virtually impossible to work with in LR (at the time with my level of expertise) and it would NOT focus with any of my lenses. i sent it in for calibration and Canon New Jersey replied back in their report, "we adjusted the exposure" really? they didnt address the lack of focus and so ive done everything to avoid another refurb. thank you though!


Of all the things you have mentioned that you didn't like about your refurb 7D, the only thing that could possibly be related to it being a refurb is the AF being off. Pretty much everything else is a fairly commonly recognised feature of that body. You may well have had the same AF issues on a brand new body too, and I doubt that it being a refurb would have any affect on how Canon Service treated your problem when you sent the camera in. I could kind of see how the whole package could put you off buying Canon full stop though, since it seems you mostly didn't like the camera very much.

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CyberDyneSystems
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Dec 20, 2017 19:48 |  #53

johnf3f wrote in post #18522887 (external link)
Interested in your thoughts.

On my longer Canon lenses I found the 5D4 to be fast and accurate with good tracking. The AF system was very flexible too. I like the extra F8 AF points. However they didn't lock as quickly or track quite as well as my 1DX (Mk1).

Certainly the 5D4 will produce "Better" images under most conditions, nobody would dispute that. Having said that, when AF is the critical point/feature, I find the 1DX to be a better camera for my personal uses. If my uses changed slightly then the 5D4 would, probably, be a better camera for me - but they haven't so it's not in my Gear List.

Now a 5D4 as a second body is my dream - just trying to sort the finances...........

I really like the 5D4 but for me (just me?) the 1DX still has the edge - just:-)


I must be doing a bad job of making my point, or I've got all the 1Dx owners so mad they can't read anymore! :) :)

Please look at the post you just quoted that excerpt from, and see that the 1Dx was not one of "all other 1D bodies"

The section just before that I made the 5D4 vs. 1Dx comparison and it was decidedly a different conclusion than the one that people seem to keep associating with my actual words. I pointed out again, that of the two, each have their own specific advantages over the other.

To be clear, again, I think we are in full agreement,

I never said the 5D4 was better or faster than the 1Dx2

I never said the 5D4 was better or faster than the 1Dx.

I did say that the 5D4 has the the newer AF system that is contemporary with the 1Dx2, (minus some of the processing power and thus slower than 1Dx2) and thus has SOME SPECIFIC AF advantages over the 1Dx. Speed and AF tracking are NOT some of those advantages.

The reason the 5D4 and 1Dx AF systems have to be considered "A wash" by anyone without a bias, is because they both offer advantages in certain areas that the other does not have.

- Most people will in fact consider the AF speed and tracking of the 1Dx more important, but NOT ALL. Certainly the 1Dx owners will, as that's one of the main reasons why you pay twice as much for the body.

- Some will prefer the lower light ability of the 5D4, the live view advantages, or the All AF points @ f/8 with t-cons, or perhaps the larger AF coverage area will help some use the higher selection of more sensitive cross type off center AF points for easier composition, or other advantages that the 1DX2/5D4 AF system brought to the table. These people do exist, they are all over the 5D4 threads.

Whew!  :p-?

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Dec 20, 2017 19:56 |  #54

umphotography wrote in post #18522499 (external link)
Who's arguing ???

I have used all the bodies in question in this tread.

Experience doesnt matter anymore ??

They are all going to perform a little different.

I dont think I have posted any information that is not relevant to the conversation. But hey your the mod. you get the final word.

Apparently, now reading John's post as well, the fault is mine.
Somehow despite my best efforts I have not made my own point of view or description of facts clearly at all. I was reacting to your perfectly clear 1Dx2 post because it began with you stating that you disagree with my post. Where as I thought, based on what we both had typed, that we were in full agreement.

My apologies for ruffling feathers.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Dec 20, 2017 22:33 |  #55

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18522931 (external link)
Somehow despite my best efforts I have not made my own point of view or description of facts clearly at all.

I understood what you meant all along, Jake.

I think what may have been confusing is that there started to be some comparison to the 1Dx2, when the OP had never asked about the 1Dx2. . So all of a sudden folks started talking about a camera that was never supposed to be part of the discussion. . No wonder things got twisted up.

.


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"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Dec 20, 2017 23:14 |  #56

Well even though this thread is muddied...I think the short answer is that either the 5D4 or 1DX have great AF systems. The 5D series is a great all around performer and a sophisticated AF: the 1D series just adds to it and has snappier AF and better customization. When it comes to keeper rate, I think you can do well with any camera you get used to. I've been using a 5D3 for cycling racing, and reading some of these posts, it would appear it would be lucky if I get a 30% keeper rate. Well the 5D series is like any competent Canon series with different tracking options and AF selections. I've got my workflow which gets me a high keeper rate with even the "lowly" 5D3. The 1D series might be an easy write off if that's your profession, but for FF goodness, the 5D series has been competent for all out IQ.


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Dec 21, 2017 08:58 |  #57

I want to apologize as well

It was not my intent to stir the pot

Look I think this 5D4 is a great camera. Its another step in the right direction for canon

IF THE TRUTH IS TO BE KNOWN

this update had very little to do with vast improvements in AF systems ( But yes they did make nice advances )

This update was all about sensor performance and canon FINALLY getting on par with Sony sensors with ISO performance, dark/shadow retention and IQ

had canon not fixed the sensor, I would be walking around with a Nikon D5

So in my mind, if all things are equal including AF, the advantage I see of a 5D4 is sensor performance over the 1Dx. I know that at the higher ISO's ( 8000-12800) the 5D4 will slightly out perform the 1Dx1 sensor in darks and shadows, however, you will not see this unless you have to crop deep into a file as many wildlife photographers do.

Unfortunately AF is not going to be equal no matter how hard myself and others want it to be. Dam right. I want the 5D4 to have a 1Dx1 or better a 1Dx2 AF system on it....But it simply does not. Thats where canon is going to differentiate cameras to the professional line up

Lastly- The files. Both the 1Dx1 and the 5D4 put out remarkable files. I personally dont have a problem wit the bigger files. Some do. There is the pixel on target argument for wildlife shooters that might slight the decision to go 5D4 despite AF considerations over the 1Dx systems. You can definitely crop in a bit and retain a nice file size

Im just Glad Canon is in the game. Im very happy with the line up. Its never been this good.


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Dec 21, 2017 14:36 |  #58

arthurbikemad wrote in post #18521735 (external link)
Indeed, but no matter how similar the 1DX/5D3 and 1DX2/5D4 the 1 Series have dedicated processors for the AF. :)


The 5D4 has a second processor (Digic 6) dedicated to AF.


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Dec 21, 2017 16:47 |  #59

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18522927 (external link)
Please look at the post you just quoted that excerpt from, and see that the 1Dx was not one of "all other 1D bodies"
"I'm just a soul who's intentions are good, Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"[/I]

Sorry - my bad! I didn't notice that.

OOPS!:oops:


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Dec 21, 2017 16:55 |  #60

umphotography wrote in post #18523174 (external link)
had canon not fixed the sensor, I would be walking around with a Nikon D5

You, and alot of people, probably me included, if a cabinet full of lenses wasn't involved. I don't care if Canon had started using the Sony sensor to match Nikon, they had to do something.


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