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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 09 Jan 2018 (Tuesday) 22:57
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Ballerina Project photo editing questions

 
weezintrumpeteer
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Post edited 5 months ago by weezintrumpeteer. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 09, 2018 22:57 |  #1

I've been a long time fan of the "Ballerina Project", a series of photos by a NYC photographer over the last 10 years or so documenting ballet dancers out side of the studio. Very beautiful stuff.

The photographer shot film for many years before at least partially switching to digital 6 or so years ago.

I absolutely love the "look" of his photos (especially the color ones) and am looking for an understanding on how to achieve it.

The colors are muted but present, the contrast is fairly flat but has depth. See below.

Any thoughts on how to emulate the color and contrast in these?

https://78.media.tumbl​r.com …vmazmXv1qdx47so​1_1280.jpg (external link)
https://i.pinimg.com …86c783abb26f509​b17a6f.jpg (external link)
https://i.pinimg.com …2c85e4252f97b98​ef9988.jpg (external link)
https://78.media.tumbl​r.com …z9scvUO1qdx47so​1_1280.jpg (external link)
https://78.media.tumbl​r.com …c0zzwqE1qdx47so​1_1280.jpg (external link)
https://78.media.tumbl​r.com …6yihEAq1qdx47so​1_1280.jpg (external link)
https://78.media.tumbl​r.com …0amkhTG1qdx47so​1_1280.jpg (external link)


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/weezintrumpetee​r/ (external link)

  
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Damo77
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Jan 09, 2018 23:02 |  #2

Gee, I don't think you're allowed to post other people's photos on the forum. Links only.


Damien
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weezintrumpeteer
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Jan 09, 2018 23:04 as a reply to  @ Damo77's post |  #3

My apologies! They are links now.


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/weezintrumpetee​r/ (external link)

  
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tzalman
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Jan 10, 2018 00:58 |  #4

One thing that might contribute to the colors you are seeing is that (contrary to the best practice for web posting and rather strangely for an experienced professional photographer) the linked images are in Adobe RGB space. If you are using a non-color managed browser, or one that does not do CM well (like Internet Explorer) and/or an uncalibrated monitor, the photos will appear as you describe them - flat and lacking saturation.


Elie / אלי

  
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BigAl007
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Jan 10, 2018 08:00 |  #5

Taking note of Elie's post I made sure to switch my system from auto configuring the colour space, it switches to sRGB for web browsers but it is still colour managed, to AdobeRGB and when viewing in 99% aRGB all of those images look to have a very normal amount of saturation and contrast. There is one image with a red dress, and I think that shade of red is over the limits of sRGb's gamut.

What I will say is that in none of those shots has the subject been in direct sunlight. Some were on overcast days, and that sort of lighting will tend to reduce both contrast and saturation in an image. The others shot in shadow with some blue sky and direct sunlight on the background can tend to give the subject a slightly cold look.

About the only thing I would say about the processing is that he has avoided the temptation to warm things up a bit, and of course not to over do the saturation, as you see in many digital images. I think the camera manufacturers tend to go for lots of saturation in conversions that are designed for "ready to use" JPEG output. I remember having an Instamatic in the early 70's before I got to use my dad's SLR in around 73/74. The prints from that would be much like this, not supersaturated like we get now. Oh and most of the "film" effects you see for digital go right over the top, and reproduce what a thirty or fourty year old image looks like, not as they were when new.

Alan


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Peano
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Post edited 5 months ago by Peano. (4 edits in all)
     
Jan 10, 2018 12:14 |  #6

weezintrumpeteer wrote in post #18537584 (external link)
The colors are muted but present, the contrast is fairly flat but has depth. See below.
Any thoughts on how to emulate the color and contrast in these?

The black point has been raised and the white point has been lowered. This has also been done differently in different color channels.

https://s9.postimg.org​/xu86e55st/subdued.jpg (external link)

Google cross-processing with curves. Lots of tutorials available.

example: https://youtu.be/tShqY​kqTQog?t=40 (external link)

EDIT: Here is one of your sample images that I "reverse engineered" to restore the vividness of the colors. It's cross-processing in reverse:
https://s9.postimg.org​/ipc2ghrul/reverse.jpg (external link)


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weezintrumpeteer
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Jan 10, 2018 20:59 |  #7

tzalman wrote in post #18537633 (external link)
One thing that might contribute to the colors you are seeing is that (contrary to the best practice for web posting and rather strangely for an experienced professional photographer) the linked images are in Adobe RGB space. If you are using a non-color managed browser, or one that does not do CM well (like Internet Explorer) and/or an uncalibrated monitor, the photos will appear as you describe them - flat and lacking saturation.

Interesting, I can see what you mean. Thanks!

BigAl007 wrote in post #18537753 (external link)
Taking note of Elie's post I made sure to switch my system from auto configuring the colour space, it switches to sRGB for web browsers but it is still colour managed, to AdobeRGB and when viewing in 99% aRGB all of those images look to have a very normal amount of saturation and contrast. There is one image with a red dress, and I think that shade of red is over the limits of sRGb's gamut.

What I will say is that in none of those shots has the subject been in direct sunlight. Some were on overcast days, and that sort of lighting will tend to reduce both contrast and saturation in an image. The others shot in shadow with some blue sky and direct sunlight on the background can tend to give the subject a slightly cold look.

About the only thing I would say about the processing is that he has avoided the temptation to warm things up a bit, and of course not to over do the saturation, as you see in many digital images. I think the camera manufacturers tend to go for lots of saturation in conversions that are designed for "ready to use" JPEG output. I remember having an Instamatic in the early 70's before I got to use my dad's SLR in around 73/74. The prints from that would be much like this, not supersaturated like we get now. Oh and most of the "film" effects you see for digital go right over the top, and reproduce what a thirty or fourty year old image looks like, not as they were when new.

Alan

Yes, I completely agree about the modern interpretation of film. Most of the presets I see (VSCO, etc) completely over-bake the contrast and saturation and it drives me nuts.

You're right about the majority of them having the subject in the shade. The one exception is the photo of the girl on the roof with the sun behind her (you can see the shadow), however, the photographer is on the shady side. Good point!

Peano wrote in post #18537914 (external link)
The black point has been raised and the white point has been lowered. This has also been done differently in different color channels.

https://s9.postimg.org​/xu86e55st/subdued.jpg (external link)

Google cross-processing with curves. Lots of tutorials available.

example: https://youtu.be/tShqY​kqTQog?t=40 (external link)

EDIT: Here is one of your sample images that I "reverse engineered" to restore the vividness of the colors. It's cross-processing in reverse:
https://s9.postimg.org​/ipc2ghrul/reverse.jpg (external link)

Very interesting. So are you saying that I just need to raise the black point and lower the white point, or something additional? It looks like "cross processing" involves tweaking the curves of all three channels.


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Peano
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Post edited 5 months ago by Peano.
     
Jan 10, 2018 21:53 |  #8

weezintrumpeteer wrote in post #18538351 (external link)
So are you saying that I just need to raise the black point and lower the white point, or something additional? It looks like "cross processing" involves tweaking the curves of all three channels.

Lowering white point and raising black point just makes the highlights a little darker and the shadows a little lighter. So, yes, you often need to tweak individual color channels -- for instance to subdue bright reds or vivid skin tones.

EDIT: When analyzing target images that you want to emulate, check RGB values at the brightest highlight and darkest shadow. That will show the differences in the separate channels.


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weezintrumpeteer
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Jan 13, 2018 16:45 as a reply to  @ Peano's post |  #9

Thanks for the follow up, I really appreciate it. It does seem like all of those images have the black point raised a bit, and the white point lowered.

I tried just that on a few of my images and I think I'm 85% of the way there to what I'm after. So that helped quite a bit! Thank you.


http://www.flickr.com/​photos/weezintrumpetee​r/ (external link)

  
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