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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 19 Jan 2018 (Friday) 05:47
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Canon sales figures for Japan

 
quickben
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Jan 19, 2018 05:47 |  #1

It’s often said that Japan’s market for cameras is a good indicator for sales worldwide.

So if that’s true, it seems that Canon’s products are still selling extremely well DESPITE their lack of innovation compared to the competition.

Now I see this two ways. One is that it’s good. Canon is in no danger of going out of business any time soon, and that their dSLR and lens production stream is still a viable source of income. They’re not going to close it down like Nikon is currently doing with their compact division.

The other is that they might be reluctant to try new things or mess around with their sensor development in fear of losing that market share, thinking that we Canon buyers like things the way they are.

It’s odvious that, as far as their sensor development is concerned, we don’t like things the way they are. The 6D2 is a case in point. Great camera, an improvement over its predecessor in every way but one.

And I think that’s quite telling. The original 6D was one of Canon’s best selling bodies. Maybe they decided to give the mk2 basically the same sensor, albeit with a modest increase in resolution, so as to not put off current 6D owners thinking that the other differences will be enough to tempt them to upgrade.

Just musing. Carry on.

Gary


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Jan 19, 2018 07:20 |  #2

I was encouraged last year that they introduced the SL-2. I though that they were going to kill that line.

I realize that is a small niche market but it is a great lightweight camera.


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Wilt
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Wilt. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 19, 2018 11:07 |  #3

quickben wrote in post #18544303 (external link)
It’s odvious that, as far as their sensor development is concerned, we don’t like things the way they are. The 6D2 is a case in point. Great camera, an improvement over its predecessor in every way but one.

And I think that’s quite telling. The original 6D was one of Canon’s best selling bodies. Maybe they decided to give the mk2 basically the same sensor, albeit with a modest increase in resolution, so as to not put off current 6D owners thinking that the other differences will be enough to tempt them to upgrade.

A different way of viewing the same situation is that Canon saw the folly of allowing the less expensive (and lower profit per unit sold) 6D to cannibalize sales of the 5DIII unit which did not have as good (low noise at high ISO when pushed) 'ISO invariance' as the 6D. Canon did not truly exceed the performance of the 6D until the 5DIV was launched, so why surpass the 5DIV with the 6DII, thereby once more eroding total profit yet again via greater sales of a lower margin model?!


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quickben
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Jan 19, 2018 12:22 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #4

Hmm, I’m not sure they would do that.

That’s like saying they would rather have less people buying a higher margin body than more people buying a slightly lower margin body.

After all, whether you’ve got a 6D2 or a 5D4, you’re going to buy lenses. Surely they’d rather have more people buying into their ecosystem ?

Yes, these buyers may already be invested in Canon and therefore the higher ticket purchase would better, but I think a lot of people entered Canon Land via the 6D because of the price point.


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Jan 19, 2018 21:44 as a reply to  @ quickben's post |  #5
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Well, you have to keep in mind that many choose not to buy Canon lenses, but third party's.


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Wilt
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Post edited over 2 years ago by Wilt.
     
Jan 19, 2018 23:40 |  #6

quickben wrote in post #18544496 (external link)
Hmm, I’m not sure they would do that.

That’s like saying they would rather have less people buying a higher margin body than more people buying a slightly lower margin body.

After all, whether you’ve got a 6D2 or a 5D4, you’re going to buy lenses. Surely they’d rather have more people buying into their ecosystem ?

Yes, these buyers may already be invested in Canon and therefore the higher ticket purchase would better, but I think a lot of people entered Canon Land via the 6D because of the price point.

Max profitability is certainly an 'it depends' challenge for the marketing folks and executive management

I just put together this model to illustrate my point. Let us assume

  • It costs 50% of MSRP to make an X5 (5Dn), while it costs $455 less to make an X6 (6Dn).
  • Canon local distributor sells to dealers at 35% off MSRP.


So if we assume that Canon sells 2000 cameras into a market, and the starting assumption is that 50% are X5 and the other 50% are X6. Based upon the cost assumptions, the total profit is as shown in row 10. Notice that if my unit volume goes down by 10% for X5, when the total unit volume remains unchanged (column H), my total profits drop.

I have to increase sales by 80% more X6 simply to offset the 10% drop of X5 and hold profit unchanged! (column I)
I have to increase sales by 160% more X6 simply to offset the 20% drop of X5 and hold profit unchanged! (column I)

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/Principles/margin_zps5uony7g6.png

Any less of an increase in X6 volume hurts total profit. The Canon market share, from 2016-2017 certainly does not reflect a massive change upward in total volume, as would be required in Col. I or Col. J on the spreadsheet.

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quickben
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Jan 20, 2018 07:59 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #7

I bow to your dedication to this thread, Wilt.

Based on absolutely no research or actual knowledge, I actually think they did sell that many more 6D units than 5D3’s.

And because of the price difference between the 6D2 and the 5D4 (in the UK anyway) I think it might be repeated this time round.

Again, this is based on my imagination. I’m bored at work, I’ve read the entire internet and Saudi Arabian tv is utter crap.

Gary


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Jan 20, 2018 08:51 |  #8

The 5D3 still saw plenty of sales because, even though it had just stightly less high ISO performance then the 6D....it had better features in every other department (AF, pro body styling, video features, 1/8000 shutter speed, etc). But keep in mind that neither the 5D or 6D series make the bulk of Canon’s camera sales. We might espouse more expensive camera gear for better performance, but most people get bridge cameras...or Rebel series. They’re looking for a basic camera, and Canon isn’t that inferior at the price points that get the most sales. People also like holding a camera to see if they’d like it. And your local Target or Best Buy is likely to stock Rebels.


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gjl711
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Jan 20, 2018 10:04 |  #9

I don't see how you can draw any conclusion as to which camera did better than which other as Canon does not share that info. It's just pure guessing. There is some data from CIPA (external link) that shows the overall market and the picture hasn't improved. It looks like 2017 will still be less (external link) heading down though the slope of the downward trend looks to be flattening out..


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Jan 20, 2018 11:18 as a reply to  @ quickben's post |  #10

Gary,

I don't claim to know manufacturing cost nor numbers of each Canon model sold. As gjl711 said, "I don't see how you can draw any conclusion as to which camera did better than which other as Canon does not share that info. It's just pure guessing." I was merely using a set of figures to illustrate the general point that if you took a FIXED number of total cameras sold, inadvertant loss of units of the more expensive model, where the cheaper model offsets the loss, CAN result in lost total profit. Using that same model it showed that any loss of more expensive units needed to be offset (in this model) by an 2X-3X increase of the cheaper models sold simply to stay even in total profit returned to Japan!

As for your speculation about additional lens sales as benefit of having 'more buyers' of cameras, there have been discussions on POTN, which if I remember correctly, showed that the number of lenses sold per body sold was only about 2 or so (but little data about stats of lenses per expensive body vs. stats about lenses per cheap body)


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quickben
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Jan 20, 2018 12:53 |  #11

Gentleman,

Cool your jets. This was just a bit of random musing while I think of things to entertain myself with during a slow patch my job generates from time to time.

Like I said, I'm basing my opinion on absolutely nothing but my own perception of the market. Which is flaky at best.


I just thought it was nice to see Canon retain it's market share and I got excited.

I'm embarassed now :oops:


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Jan 20, 2018 14:02 |  #12

One other thing to consider. If you look at the first link I posted, DSLR sales have plummeted 80% from it high but lens sales have only decreased 35%. Sometimes it makes sense to get a bunch of cheaper hardware out there because other areas will benefit.


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Wilt
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Jan 20, 2018 15:16 as a reply to  @ quickben's post |  #13

Absolutely no need for any embarrassment, Gary. Although I was previously aware of the phenomenon from business school case study a long time ago about product mix for maximized profitability, most folks are blissfully unaware of the complexity between corporate profit vs. their wish for more market penetration (in units sold). More penetration need not result in more profit, unfortunately for companies.


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Canon sales figures for Japan
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