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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Astronomy & Celestial 
Thread started 31 Dec 2009 (Thursday) 21:07
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The Official Shoot the Moon Thread

 
WestCoastCannuck
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Jan 07, 2018 19:13 |  #4771

navydoc wrote in post #18535451 (external link)
Nicely exposed shot. An advantage you enjoy is the crop sensor of the 7DII and the advantage my camera has is the 42mp sensor which allows for heavier cropping.

I have the new Sony a7rIII and the Focus Magnify feature in MF is a great help. I can magnify the view in the viewfinder x6.2 times while focusing manually and the higher resolution viewfinder screen is much better at showing detail than my a7rII was at that magnification.

Actually... for shooting the moon, or any distant object, the 7D2, or most current crop frame cameras are MORE crop-able than the A7rii or my A99ii which has the same sensor. That is why I shoot the moon with my A77ii. 24mp.... compared to the 18mp in the same sensor area of the A99ii when using crop mode.

;-)a

EDIT: It just occurred to me that you probably know this and are comparing the two cameras in a general way rather than specific to shooting the moon. If so, my apologies - and we shall just let the above statement stand for those who don't!! lol


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MalVeauX
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Post edited over 1 year ago by MalVeauX. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 07, 2018 20:06 |  #4772

WestCoastCannuck wrote in post #18535898 (external link)
Actually... for shooting the moon, or any distant object, the 7D2, or most current crop frame cameras are MORE crop-able than the A7rii or my A99ii which has the same sensor. That is why I shoot the moon with my A77ii. 24mp.... compared to the 18mp in the same sensor area of the A99ii when using crop mode.

;-)a

EDIT: It just occurred to me that you probably know this and are comparing the two cameras in a general way rather than specific to shooting the moon. If so, my apologies - and we shall just let the above statement stand for those who don't!! lol

Just to point out, for all parties here, the resolution of your sensor won't pull anything more than the aperture size of the instrument used can allow, as its the determination of actual resolution before you even begin to try to capture the image. So at the end of the day, whether you're using 10MP or 50MP or any sensor size with pixel sizes ranging from 5.8um to 2.5um, you'll not have optimal sampling in most cases because of the pixel size match to focal-ratio and all of which is being captured through, at least in these examples, small aperture instruments, which means the detail is limited to that scale where you're way oversampled. This is why you can't resolve detail in craters or around structure on the surface with these smaller aperture lenses, whether you're using an A7S or a 5DSR, because a lot of these lenses being used have barely between 2.5 to 3 inches of actual aperture which is the limit of resolution here.

If you really want to get detail on the moon, you need aperture, not megapixels, and sensor size doesn't matter (pixel size with appropriate focal-ratio does matter to achieve ideal sampling). Sensor size tells you surface, and number of pixels on that surface determine's pixel size. It will effect field of view with the instrument, but if you want to capture detail, matching the pixel size to the focal-ratio for sampling is what's important, second to simply having a large enough aperture to resolve what you even want to resolve. The whole system is about optimizing the physics of light and the limitations of reducing blur sources in the system.

+++++++++++++++

For example, the camera used to capture the following detail was only 6.4MP (3096 x 2080, with 2.4um pixel size for surface) and it was much, much smaller than an APS-C sensor (1/1.8"), and a fraction of the cost of a dSLR/mSLR (ASI178MC, $350). The reason I was able to resolve detail within a small crater (gassendi Crater) to show mountains, craterlets, and other small surface details was because the aperture of the instrument used was 150mm (6 inches). This a humble $399 new instrument (Celestron C6). But the physical principles here are being used for the purpose. Bigger aperture is how you resolve detail, it's the beginning of resolution. Good seeing is the absolute limit of magnification (which limits focal length). Sampling ideally will go much farther too (and here, I'm not ideally sampled, I pushed the system only because I had good seeing and could risk it):

IMAGE: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/324/31203285930_45293f7171_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/PxjZ​Ns  (external link) GassendiCrater_MareHum​orum_12102016 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

Very best,

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WestCoastCannuck
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Post edited over 1 year ago by WestCoastCannuck.
     
Jan 08, 2018 00:12 as a reply to  @ MalVeauX's post |  #4773

Someday Martin.... I will want to buy a telescope and Astro camera and at that time I will be rereading your most informative posts! It is quite exciting to see what you produced that day with pretty inexpensive gear!

In the meantime I will continue to enjoy seeing what I can get with my regular camera gear. And I have found my smaller pixelled 24mp A77ii crop frame camera produces better moon shots than my FF 42mp A99ii.


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Tareq
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Jan 08, 2018 04:29 |  #4774

Yes, when i got into astronomy i bought astro cameras, one for DSO and another one for planetary although i can use that for DSO on planets, but the cameras for planetary has smaller pixel sizes as i see from many solar system images, and it is a color one, i may add another one but mono and use filters for planets more than the moon but sure i can try on the moon too.

Now all what i need is better scopes, for now i am using ST80, an achro scope that is used for guiding mostly, but with mono i can easily shoot the moon and have nice details or results for sure, but i really don't think or focus on the moon at all these days, it is always shown and clear every month so i will always have time for the moon easily, while another targets are not always around in the sky, later i will complete my setup then i can give the moon more practice.


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J-Blake
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Jan 08, 2018 07:54 |  #4775

Can anyone steer me to post processing techniques for moon and star shots? Earlier in the thread I asked for and received some advice on programs to use, but I'm finding them less than intuitive. I was on vacation a couple weeks ago and made sure to shoot the moon a number of ways. Stacking these images is proving to be challenging.......

It's like a whole new universe out there.


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MalVeauX
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Jan 08, 2018 11:10 |  #4776

J-Blake wrote in post #18536189 (external link)
Can anyone steer me to post processing techniques for moon and star shots? Earlier in the thread I asked for and received some advice on programs to use, but I'm finding them less than intuitive. I was on vacation a couple weeks ago and made sure to shoot the moon a number of ways. Stacking these images is proving to be challenging.......

It's like a whole new universe out there.

Both are very, very different in terms of how to process. By star shots, I assume you mean wide field deep space produced with still images? And by moon shots, are you referring to a still image, or high resolution lunar surface video? It changes everything depending on what you're doing and what the source material is.

Very best,


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Tareq
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Jan 08, 2018 14:38 |  #4777

And also sometimes what equipment you use, quality can vary sometimes, many could say equipment doesn't matter, if it doesn't matter then all equipment should be in same price, pointless if a tool of $20000 can't do better or give anything better than $200 same type of tool, a mount that is $1000 is good enough, but a mount that is $10000 has to prove it is worthy, same with camera or telescope, even software has some kind of differences or performance, only users can make things worthy it or not, if someone can't make something expensive or high quality working then it is not gear problem, and also someone who master $1 item doesn't mean it is always the best or working for all.

My point above it, a user with high skill but not high end equipment can produce nice images, but to limits, this is an equipment limits or fault, while a not skilled user with high end equipment and can't produce nice results then it is user limits or fault not the equipment, i sometimes read posts showing that it is always the equipment fault and it is sometimes a waste to have expensive equipment when it is not the case.

I tried using my DSLR not modified on tracking mount for astro, i couldn't have anything good, i may need long long time for, but then i bought a cooled astro mono camera, and suddenly I've got something first time or right away i never expected not even with DSLR, i can't say i am skilled, i can't say that equipment does matter, but sometimes things must be put to the right place either a user or equipment.


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J-Blake
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Jan 08, 2018 15:02 |  #4778

MalVeauX wrote in post #18536312 (external link)
Both are very, very different in terms of how to process. By star shots, I assume you mean wide field deep space produced with still images? And by moon shots, are you referring to a still image, or high resolution lunar surface video? It changes everything depending on what you're doing and what the source material is.

Very best,

Thanks Martin. That's a good question as I didn't know there was a difference. I'm not a video shooter, so I'm currently taking stills alone. I do have the ability to shoot a video, though never done it. I believe that's a relatively easy learning curve so could incorporate video if it's going to produce improved results, though I assume shooting video at night presents additional challenges. To date the star shots I've taken I would classify as night landscapes as opposed to astro-photography. Mostly wide angle (14mm to 50mm) to let in light and increase exposure time. I do have an iOptron Sky Tracker which I've used a handful of times, but so far only to improve my wide angle exposure time. I recently took a number of moon shots with a 70-200mm lens with a 2X doubler (as much reach as I currently have), on a FF camera body.


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MalVeauX
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Jan 08, 2018 21:13 |  #4779

J-Blake wrote in post #18536485 (external link)
Thanks Martin. That's a good question as I didn't know there was a difference. I'm not a video shooter, so I'm currently taking stills alone. I do have the ability to shoot a video, though never done it. I believe that's a relatively easy learning curve so could incorporate video if it's going to produce improved results, though I assume shooting video at night presents additional challenges. To date the star shots I've taken I would classify as night landscapes as opposed to astro-photography. Mostly wide angle (14mm to 50mm) to let in light and increase exposure time. I do have an iOptron Sky Tracker which I've used a handful of times, but so far only to improve my wide angle exposure time. I recently took a number of moon shots with a 70-200mm lens with a 2X doubler (as much reach as I currently have), on a FF camera body.

For full disc shots, I wouldn't even bother with taking several images (stills) and stacking them. Not at this scale (small resolution due to the small aperture instrument used). A full disc created as a mosaic from several high resolution panels would be different. But for a single shot of the moon, just start with a single exposure (like 99% of what's posted here). Stacking only cleans up random noise, but that's it. To benefit the signal to noise ratio (which only serves a single purpose on the lunar surface, to lift shadows basically), you'd have to stack lots of frames (S:R ratio increases based on the square root of the number of stacked images, with diminishing returns represented as a curve). The moon as a disc is not something that requires a lot of signal to noise ratio to do anything with, so focus on a good exposure to begin with (preserving highlights as your first priority). You normalize the exposure from there with levels by stretching the histogram to be more flat. Initial sharpening is done with large pixel ratio high pass filters. Then small pixel ratio high pass filter. Another option is to apply subtle deconvolution (this replaces sharpening to an extent). Then contrast to taste. I would not stress any noise reduction, you lose crater detail there, it's ok to have some grain, it's worse to lose detail.

I wouldn't put a lot into this at 400mm on a full frame sensor, it's low resolution, so you're not resolving much anyways, so it's better to focus on getting a good exposure and display it with a good composition more than anything.

Very best,


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Jan 09, 2018 13:37 |  #4780

My first attempt from last weeks super moon.


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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Two Hot Shoes. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 23, 2018 14:46 |  #4781

Hazy night tonight but trying out Fuji's XF100-400 so pointing up anyway.


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Jan 24, 2018 11:58 |  #4782

The Moon at 15:55 over my house with the Fuji XF100-400 and probably the last moon shot for a while as the lens goes back Saturday.

IMAGE: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4761/39845194172_469b6d7070_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/23GZ​33q  (external link) DSCF4683 (external link) by Kim Farrelly (external link), on Flickr

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Jan 25, 2018 10:54 |  #4783

Well I took two more today @ about 16:30 with the Fuji XF100-400mm testing out the Image Stabilization. Both shot at 400mm and 200% crop in on 24Mpx camera.

This one @1/15 a little bit of softness but was at f/16

IMAGE: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4660/28113675539_e646d39897_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/JQiW​gM  (external link) The Moon 200% Crop (external link) by Kim Farrelly (external link), on Flickr

This one @1/125 at F/10. Ouch.

IMAGE: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4698/39894780791_c9065f2e32_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/23Mn​bq8  (external link) The Moon 200% crop (external link) by Kim Farrelly (external link), on Flickr

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Jan 28, 2018 19:01 |  #4784

We finally got a clear night (winter time here is VERY cloudy) so I took some pictures of the moon.

I used my 1.4TC on this photo.

IMAGE: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4711/39246016494_0bd68fac6c_o.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/22N3​6oN  (external link) IMG_5894-CROP Elements + Resize (external link) by inspeqtor (external link), on Flickr

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Capn ­ Jack
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Jan 28, 2018 19:57 as a reply to  @ Inspeqtor's post |  #4785

Nice and clear, looks like you are ready for the eclipse later this week.




  
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The Official Shoot the Moon Thread
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