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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 06 Jan 2017 (Friday) 09:39
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Flashpoint eVOLV 200 R2 TTL Pocket Flash | (AD200) Thoughts?

 
CyberDyneSystems
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Jan 28, 2018 23:13 |  #1426

jlafferty wrote in post #18551176 (external link)
Yeah, IMO the fresnel is not worth working with. ...

For most applications I'd agree. Certainly most customary applications,. but it has it's advantages for some less customary uses.

Sometimes we are looking to concentrate the power as tightly as possible.

Looking forward to your guide!


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SereneSpeed
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Post edited over 2 years ago by SereneSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 29, 2018 00:22 |  #1427

jlafferty wrote in post #18551176 (external link)
Yeah, IMO the fresnel is not worth working with.

I'm with Talley on this. Most people don't photograph living room walls. Their subjects are usually much more three dimensional :-)

The photo below was taken with the "not worth working with" fresnel head.

There are many circumstances where packing the AD200 with fresnel head is a lot (LOT!) easier than dealing with the (delicate) bare bulb and (crushable) standard reflector. I literally carried the AD200 in my shorts pocket and rested it on a rock to take the photo below. The standard reflector would not have made the photo any nicer. I can think of a few ways to improve the photo, but the 4" reflector is not one of them.

@jlafferty, if you are writing a guide, perhaps you could evaluate the shadow edge falloff, when shooting a face. For many photographers, that matters as much, or more than the light spread/falloff on a flat wall. At a regular working distance for shooting people, neither of the heads is going to provide a soft light.

To be honest, I do use the standard reflector all the time to photograph walls. But that's only when the wall is the background for a headshot and the falloff matters.

There are reasons to choose either head. The list of pros vs. cons is not simple, or small. In my opinion, it would be a shame to not even acknowledge the benefits and uses of the fresnel head.

Just adding my two cents...

Looking forward to seeing your guide. For Adorama, I assume?

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Jan 29, 2018 07:38 |  #1428

Fresnel works well for me. The shape of the light is nice as I wish to light the object (car), not its surroundings. And the bare bulb would last about two minutes outside in racing conditions :D




  
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Jan 29, 2018 08:23 |  #1429

I use the fresnel head to shoot a lot of walls. i.e. real estate photography :-)

I bounce the light into wall / ceiling right or left of camera to liven up the foreground.

Works a charm.

As stated by others. Both heads have their uses.

I also have a couple of the Bowens mount fresnel adapters. They also are useful alternative.


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jlafferty
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Post edited over 2 years ago by jlafferty. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 29, 2018 08:48 |  #1430

My response to someone else shooting a wall wasn't to suggest that's all I've done. If you find a use for the fresnel that fits your style and subject, I'm not trying to dissuade you. My subjects are people and their environment, and my apologies for wording it like my subject and workflow is objectively all that matters - I didn't intend that.

But speaking for my needs and work style it simply doesn't offer anything attractive. If I'm looking for highest efficiency, while also considering coverage and edge character, it's the bare reflector, no question. If I'm looking for broadest coverage in the case of filling a space or a modifier, it's bare bulb. The point is that while a fresnel can perform fine under a specific circumstance, unless you know that's all you'll ever shoot, it doesn't serve you to only be prepared to shoot one thing, under one set of conditions.

I haven't done comparisons of fresnel on face vs. reflector simply because it's such a narrow use and small FOV that, without context, you actually don't learn enough in comparing.

For my use, and for the sake of the articles I'm prepping, I typically frame things in a "how would I actually use this on a paid gig?" perspective; and also, generally speaking, I try to be conservative when making claims about how a light performs. The fresnel is a situation where you can make claims about the eVOLV - and any small fresnel light, like a speedlight - that outside a very narrow use case are either objectively false or at least misleading. Wherever possible I put a light inside a modifier at a distance that normalizes all the lights and gives what I feel is a more practical and useful understanding of how the light can be used.

I've got two articles in the queue already with materials for another two getting their final pass. Hope they'll be up soon. They're all going to eventually be here:

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SereneSpeed wrote in post #18551457 (external link)
I'm with Talley on this. Most people don't photograph living room walls. Their subjects are usually much more three dimensional :-)

The photo below was taken with the "not worth working with" fresnel head.

There are many circumstances where packing the AD200 with fresnel head is a lot (LOT!) easier than dealing with the (delicate) bare bulb and (crushable) standard reflector. I literally carried the AD200 in my shorts pocket and rested it on a rock to take the photo below. The standard reflector would not have made the photo any nicer. I can think of a few ways to improve the photo, but the 4" reflector is not one of them.

@jlafferty, if you are writing a guide, perhaps you could evaluate the shadow edge falloff, when shooting a face. For many photographers, that matters as much, or more than the light spread/falloff on a flat wall. At a regular working distance for shooting people, neither of the heads is going to provide a soft light.

To be honest, I do use the standard reflector all the time to photograph walls. But that's only when the wall is the background for a headshot and the falloff matters.

There are reasons to choose either head. The list of pros vs. cons is not simple, or small. In my opinion, it would be a shame to not even acknowledge the benefits and uses of the fresnel head.

Just adding my two cents...

Looking forward to seeing your guide. For Adorama, I assume?

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Tessa wrote in post #18551575 (external link)
Fresnel works well for me. The shape of the light is nice as I wish to light the object (car), not its surroundings. And the bare bulb would last about two minutes outside in racing conditions :D


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MayaTlab
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Jan 30, 2018 05:53 |  #1431

sschaef1 wrote in post #18551153 (external link)
FWIW.....Fresnel vs Bare bulb with 5" reflector and diffuser.

What I find a bit disappointing is the colour temperature difference between the two, even at the same power setting.

I'm not quite sure about other manufacturers, but at least at full power Profoto tries to normalise the colour temperature of their different strobes so that you can pair them together (for example, a D2 with a B2).

Let's hope that Godox will follow that approach with their upcoming releases and try to match them to the AD600 pro.




  
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jlafferty
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Jan 30, 2018 07:19 |  #1432

Don't you think the fresnel has a color cast that the bare bulb doesn't?

MayaTlab wrote in post #18552250 (external link)
What I find a bit disappointing is the colour temperature difference between the two, even at the same power setting.

I'm not quite sure about other manufacturers, but at least at full power Profoto tries to normalise the colour temperature of their different strobes so that you can pair them together (for example, a D2 with a B2).

Let's hope that Godox will follow that approach with their upcoming releases and try to match them to the AD600 pro.


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Jan 30, 2018 07:44 |  #1433

jlafferty wrote in post #18552273 (external link)
Don't you think the fresnel has a color cast that the bare bulb doesn't?

It's all relative, so I don't think it's a question of x having a cast and z not having it. You could say either that the fresnel is colder / greener or that the bare bulb is warmer / more magenta and both would be correct.
They just look quite different, even at the same power setting, and that could be a problem at times.




  
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Post edited over 2 years ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Jan 30, 2018 08:47 |  #1434

I guess that could be an issue if I were using mixed modes, but with the 4 I have now, I believe I only ever use all fresnel or all bare bulb. I could see how one might want to mix them though, like using a couple to light a backdrop, and a couple as subject lighting.


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MayaTlab
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Jan 30, 2018 09:27 |  #1435

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18552315 (external link)
I guess that could be an issue if I were using mixed modes, but with the 4 I have now, I believe I only ever use all fresnel or all bare bulb. I could see how one might want to mix them though, like using a couple to light a backdrop, and a couple as subject lighting.

I think that it's a good point. In what sort of scenario the heads would be mixed ?

But it also extends to Godox's other strobes. For example, how does the AD200's bare bulb perform relative to the AD600 in terms of white balance ?

If Godox manages to extend downwards the AD600 pro's colour consistent mode, it would be really nice if all of their strobes were to be roughly similar in terms of relative white balance between models.




  
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Jan 30, 2018 11:15 |  #1436

Have you ever done a simple white balance check to see? I have a set of Xplor and eVOLV Xrite color checker shots. I can let you know what I see sometime after I get these articles off my plate. Agreed it would be nice if they pass the color improvements down - but I also feel people make this more of an issue than it really is.

Just incidental observations: I've mixed 4 Streaklights on one shoot, no issue. I've also mixed the eVOLV, in the twin head, with the Xplor, and Streaklights for rim/background. Super color stable frame to frame and nothing weird in post to correct.

I'm always shooting bare bulb across all of the lights.

MayaTlab wrote in post #18552335 (external link)
I think that it's a good point. In what sort of scenario the heads would be mixed ?

But it also extends to Godox's other strobes. For example, how does the AD200's bare bulb perform relative to the AD600 in terms of white balance ?

If Godox manages to extend downwards the AD600 pro's colour consistent mode, it would be really nice if all of their strobes were to be roughly similar in terms of relative white balance between models.


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Jan 30, 2018 11:28 |  #1437

I guess I did mix them up here, in fact I had 3 different kinds of flashes. The TT685s, AD200s and an AD360...

I didn't see any issues in this 2 week shoot either, so I don't think it is really a big deal. I also shoot a custom WB, so maybe that takes care of things.

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Jan 30, 2018 12:29 |  #1438

jlafferty wrote in post #18552433 (external link)
Have you ever done a simple white balance check to see? I have a set of Xplor and eVOLV Xrite color checker shots. I can let you know what I see sometime after I get these articles off my plate. Agreed it would be nice if they pass the color improvements down - but I also feel people make this more of an issue than it really is.

I don't disagree. In real life it should be quite OK most of the time for most of us.

I don't own the AD200, but I'm interested in anything Godox makes these days, particularly if their upcoming products (AD200 pro :D ?) take a good chunk of what they learnt and applied with the AD600 pro downwards (tube / reflector design, handle, operational qualities, etc.). There are some features which would be useful to me that aren't on Profoto's menu and won't be for a while (delay mode, mask mode, etc.).




  
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Jan 30, 2018 13:09 |  #1439

In theory just white balancing a reference target wouldn't fix the issue. In practice the issue doesn't seem to present notable problems.

I always have to chuckle at color accurate claims - unless it's super refined work there are so so many factors that kill color workflow, that a swing from one setting to another is a comparatively small issue.

The color of the subject's shirt kicking back into their face; the age of the diffusion material in front of one strobe versus another; incidental reflection; mixed sources like ambient and strobe. From my experience, there are smart things to do, like throwing down black fabric at the subject's feet, isolating them from tungsten or fluoro, book end them with black or white… provided all your light is in the same general ballpark, you work to minimize any overt cast, things look really clean.

And for any problems some Luminosity Mask, to Apply Image, to a Curve for shadows vs highs will bring everything in to spec.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18552438 (external link)
I guess I did mix them up here, in fact I had 3 different kinds of flashes. The TT685s, AD200s and an AD360...

I didn't see any issues in this 2 week shoot either, so I don't think it is really a big deal. I also shoot a custom WB, so maybe that takes care of things.

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CyberDyneSystems
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Jan 30, 2018 16:12 |  #1440

MayaTlab wrote in post #18552335 (external link)
I think that it's a good point. In what sort of scenario the heads would be mixed ?

...

I have not done it with the AD200,. (yet)
But I have been mixing AD360 bare bulb with V860 speedlights (and 580EXII) for some time, long before the AD200 existed. I would assume we are looking at the same kind of problem with color there.

As for Ad200, to date I have only used it with the fresnel! (I honestly forgot to swap it to the barebulb the one time I used a big octa box! :oops::oops::oops:


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Flashpoint eVOLV 200 R2 TTL Pocket Flash | (AD200) Thoughts?
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