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Thread started 03 Jan 2018 (Wednesday) 08:28
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6D mark II...Did we make a mistake?

 
malcolmp
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Jan 28, 2018 05:38 |  #121

Nethawked wrote in post #18549479 (external link)
If you wanted the 5D MK IV joystick, yes the 6D II does suck
If you're annoyed that you keep hitting metering mode button rather than ISO, yes, the 6D II does suck
If you expected better image quality than the top of the line Canon bodies yes the 6D II does suck
If you expected amazing innovation from Canon then yes, the 6D II does suck
If you expected amazing improvement in DR then yes, the 6D II does suck
If you expected no work as a photographer to produce beautiful images then the 6D II does suck
If you paid full retail then yes, the 6D II does suck

If you did your research before purchasing you would know its strengths and weaknesses, and if any of them is an issue for you and you did purchase then yeah, you made a mistake. The rest of us got another fine Canon camera that will do the job it was intended for. I liked the original 6D just fine (and remember the same whiny posts about it too). I prefer my 5D III over the 6D II, I like the 5D IV best. But I can still do my job with any of them, because

Choose your tools based on what you need to do, not some lame-arsed clickbait article.

Peace.

I agree with your points above, but that's a lot of caveats to worry about. It's almost unheard of for a technology company to bring out a model that isn't an improvement, especially priced at the 6D II level. The 6D II is a capable camera, however it represents the frustration that Canon compromised so much on features to protect the 5D4, particularly given the competition. Either that or they are really behind in sensor technology.

If you have good light and don't use super shallow DOF then it doesn't matter so much what camera you use. In fact the flip screen and GPS on the 6D II make it a great travel camera.

If Canon had made the 6D II with about the same autofocus points as the 5D3 (5 year old camera) and an incrementally improved DR, I would probably have gone for it. However the 5D3 was frustrating me, and I was forced to consider the 5D4 to get some features that are valuable to me (increase DR, better AF), but by switching to the a7RIII I get more that's valuable to me (Eye AF, silent shooting, even better DR). Enough for me to stomach extra cost of changing systems, although I am keeping some Canon glass to use adapted.

If these features don't matter to you, or you want a more robust and weather proof body, the a7RIII is probably not worth it. I didn't care if was mirrorless or not, I just want a better tool to take pictures with. I wish Canon had made it, I would have saved some money.


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2loose
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Jan 28, 2018 05:45 |  #122

The biggest mistake I could think of is spend too much time in the internet and not go out and take photos.


Body:Canon EOS-5D Mark IV, Sony A7II
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malcolmp
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Jan 28, 2018 05:47 as a reply to  @ 2loose's post |  #123

Ha, some forums are actually helpful for improving photography - not gear threads, obviously!


malcolmp
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Nethawked
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Jan 31, 2018 12:42 |  #124

malcolmp wrote in post #18550766 (external link)
I agree with your points above, but that's a lot of caveats to worry about. It's almost unheard of for a technology company to bring out a model that isn't an improvement, especially priced at the 6D II level. The 6D II is a capable camera, however it represents the frustration that Canon compromised so much on features to protect the 5D4, particularly given the competition. Either that or they are really behind in sensor technology.

It is an improvement over the previous 6D.
As a product manager there are always compromises. Name one company who jeopardizes sale of their primary products by making those inferior products more feature-rich and I'll name one company that won't last long.

Yes, Canon is really behind in sensor technology. Nobody will disagree with this.

malcolmp wrote in post #18550766 (external link)
If you have good light and don't use super shallow DOF then it doesn't matter so much what camera you use. In fact the flip screen and GPS on the 6D II make it a great travel camera..

Yes it does. It always matters. I happen to get my money shots in low light and with wide open lens, still the 6D II does the job for me (and better than the 5D III).

malcolmp wrote in post #18550766 (external link)
If Canon had made the 6D II with about the same autofocus points as the 5D3 (5 year old camera) and an incrementally improved DR, I would probably have gone for it. However the 5D3 was frustrating me, and I was forced to consider the 5D4 to get some features that are valuable to me (increase DR, better AF), but by switching to the a7RIII I get more that's valuable to me (Eye AF, silent shooting, even better DR). Enough for me to stomach extra cost of changing systems, although I am keeping some Canon glass to use adapted.

See above. If the 5D3 where EOS or EOL then this would make sense, but it's not.

I agree completely with considering Sony, it's tough to go wrong with them these days. Faster AF is more important to me than DR so I've steered clear.

malcolmp wrote in post #18550766 (external link)
If these features don't matter to you, or you want a more robust and weather proof body, the a7RIII is probably not worth it. I didn't care if was mirrorless or not, I just want a better tool to take pictures with. I wish Canon had made it, I would have saved some money.

That's what I'm sayin'. While I'm sorry you may have wasted money, if you spent money on a camera that isn't going to do what you want then it's hardly Canon's fault.




  
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malcolmp
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Jan 31, 2018 17:27 |  #125

Nethawked wrote in post #18553429 (external link)
It is an improvement over the previous 6D.
As a product manager there are always compromises. Name one company who jeopardizes sale of their primary products by making those inferior products more feature-rich and I'll name one company that won't last long.

I didn't say they should have made the 6D II better than the 5D IV, I'm saying it should have been an improvement in all areas over the 6D, not just some.

All product companies have product segmentation, but they continuously improve each segment. Imagine if Apple released the iPhone 8 with a worse camera than the iPhone 7 to force people to the iPhone X!

Nethawked wrote in post #18553429 (external link)
I agree completely with considering Sony, it's tough to go wrong with them these days. Faster AF is more important to me than DR so I've steered clear.

I've been very impressed with the a7R III AF speed, but I don't seriously shoot sports or birds, so I don't know how it compares for that.

Nethawked wrote in post #18553429 (external link)
While I'm sorry you may have wasted money, if you spent money on a camera that isn't going to do what you want then it's hardly Canon's fault.

Oh, I'm not upset at Canon, just disappointed. I'm still keeping a bunch of Canon glass, and the M5 is perfect for my wife.

Let me put it another way. I've spent more than I was planning on camera gear this year as I switch, but I am blown away with the a7R III for the type of shooting I do. Even my trusty ol' Canon 35 f1.4 works adapted with Eye AF and is now image stabilised!

I've attached a before/after example of the DR on the Sony (from JPEG, not Raw). I just couldn't do this before. Taken walking around New Orleans yesterday, not the most aesthetic shot but the DR is amazing (taken with the Sony 16-35 f4).


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malcolmp
α7R III | FE 16-35/4 | FE 24-105/4 | FE 35/2.8 | FE 55/1.8 | FE 85/1.8 |
MB V | EF 35/1.4L | EF 50/1.4 | EF 135/2L | EF 70-200/2.8L IS II |
m5 | 11-22 | 22/2 | 18-55 | 28/3.5 |

  
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aladyforty
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Post edited 4 months ago by aladyforty.
     
Jan 31, 2018 18:58 |  #126

many of the comments on this thread lead me to wonder how on earth photographers ever managed with the early full frame cameras to supply amazing images to their clients. After all, one cant do that without all the latest technology and amazing dynamic range. Personally Im seeing some pretty amazing stuff coming out of the 6DII, I dont own one but Im pretty sure if i did I could make some pretty amazing images with it :rolleyes:


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John ­ Sheehy
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Feb 01, 2018 11:10 |  #127

aladyforty wrote in post #18553661 (external link)
many of the comments on this thread lead me to wonder how on earth photographers ever managed with the early full frame cameras to supply amazing images to their clients. After all, one cant do that without all the latest technology and amazing dynamic range. Personally Im seeing some pretty amazing stuff coming out of the 6DII, I dont own one but Im pretty sure if i did I could make some pretty amazing images with it :rolleyes:

That's not in question, though. The quality of the color filters is all that matters for some things, and the 6D2 ones seem to be state of the art, with both high quantum efficiency *and* good color separation. 26MP is a big step up for some people, too, as is the articulating touch screen. That doesn't compensate, though, for the inferior shadows, from moderately deep at base ISO to up into the midtones at ISO 102K, that you get with the 6D2 because of its relatively high read noise levels, both before and after analog gain, for a recent "serious" camera.

People seem to be hung up on ascribing a binary thumbs-up or thumbs-down to things that have multiple aspects. So we get people defending the honor of cameras when they want to give a monolithic "thumbs-up" and someone else gives a thumbs-down on any aspect of it.

Let the bad points be known. This is people's "hard earned money" potentially spent.

Unfortunately, there are people who plan only to use manual full-stop ISOs, "good exposure" and all the thing that make DR less relevant, and would be happy with the camera, but who are put off by its DR, even though it affects what they do very little. Anyone who is going to shoot at low and medium full-stop ISOs like slide film is going to like the 6D2 better than the 6D. The problem is not that the bad points are mentioned, but that they are misunderstood.




  
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MakisM1
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Post edited 4 months ago by MakisM1. (2 edits in all)
     
Feb 01, 2018 12:56 |  #128

Ι joined the forum at the end of 2011 when I re-entered photography as a hobby with my 60D.

Since then, I observe with amusement the ritual with every new camera body introduction starting with my own 60D (the 'Super Rebel' the plastic camera that didn't rise to the prosumer level, a step backward from the 50D, hell and damnation...). Turned out to be a pretty decent camera...

People are killing themselves to diss a new camera... Chalk it to human nature...

The 5DIII had the light leak bugaboo, the 70D couldn't shoot straight, the 6D was a sensor without a body, none of the Canons could shoot with a decent DR... yada yada and more yada yada.

People girdled their loins, gnashed their teeth, crossed their eyes, swore to forswear Canon just to teach them a lesson, abandoned Canon, didn't abandon Canon but acted as jilted lovers...

Bah humbug! Canon doesn't care, frankly, most of us don't care, I can hardly remember lifting the shadows for a 'good' shot. I often experiment, but I hardly ever remember a shot 'needing' it. Some of you do and that's fine.

Get a life (says I to nobody in particular...)

Get out and shoot, stay in the studio and shoot, do something creative. That's what photography is for...

If you do it with a Sony, more power to you. Same with a Nikon, or a 4/3ds camera that all of us will wield in our old age...

Getting back to the topic, I see that Canon incorporated a whole host of improvements (when comparing with the 6D). It made the camera more well rounded and truly a decent entry level FF.

It is not an improvement in the DR?

Oh well, tough!


Gerry
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Feb 01, 2018 13:13 |  #129

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18532994 (external link)
In photography it is not like that, because so many people are more interested in the gear and its specifications than in the actual activity of photographing things or the images themselves.

Everytime I watch something on Creativelive on photography, there will invariably be the question(s) of what camera/lens was used....what flash model etc...

And I mean EVERYTIME....

Far to many folks looking for a shortcut, and hoping the gear will supply that


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 01, 2018 20:55 |  #130

MakisM1 wrote in post #18554137 (external link)
It is not an improvement in the DR?

Gerry,

I do not understand this sentence of yours. . It reads like a statement, yet you have a question mark at the end.

So, could you please explain what you mean with this sentence? . Is it a statement, or a question?

If it is a statement, then why is there a question mark at the end instead of a period?

If it is a question, then why does it start with "It is" instead of "Is it"?

Some clarification would be very helpful.

Thanks


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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MakisM1
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Feb 01, 2018 23:05 |  #131

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18554385 (external link)
Gerry,

I do not understand this sentence of yours. . It reads like a statement, yet you have a question mark at the end.

So, could you please explain what you mean with this sentence? . Is it a statement, or a question?

If it is a statement, then why is there a question mark at the end instead of a period?

If it is a question, then why does it start with "It is" instead of "Is it"?

Some clarification would be very helpful.

Thanks

.

It is as if I am quoting someone else. Like "One states it is not an improvement in DR?"

"Oh well..."

I guess I could have said "Is it not an improvement in DR?" and achieve the same result in an unambiguous fashion, rather than debating with 'one' :lol:


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Feb 02, 2018 02:11 |  #132

MakisM1 wrote in post #18554454 (external link)
It is as if I am quoting someone else. Like "One states it is not an improvement in DR?"

"Oh well..."

I guess I could have said "Is it not an improvement in DR?" and achieve the same result in an unambiguous fashion, rather than debating with 'one' :lol:

I think it could be described as a 'rhetorical question' if we wanted to dig into the structural linguistics (or whatever) of it. In other words ... it's a question put to make a point.

So it is both a question and a statement.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Feb 02, 2018 02:16 |  #133

MakisM1 wrote in post #18554454 (external link)
It is as if I am quoting someone else. Like "One states it is not an improvement in DR?"

"Oh well..."

I guess I could have said "Is it not an improvement in DR?" and achieve the same result in an unambiguous fashion, rather than debating with 'one' :lol:

I'm sorry, Gerry, but I am still confused.

But I do want to know what you meant.

Are you asking us if it is an improvement in dynamic range?

Or are you telling us that it is an improvement in dynamic range?

Or are you telling us that it is not an improvement in dynamic range?

I feel bad that I have to ask you again, but even after reading and re-reading your explanation, I still do not understand what you meant.


.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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DaviSto
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Feb 02, 2018 02:25 |  #134

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18554501 (external link)
I'm sorry, Gerry, but I am still confused.

But I do want to know what you meant.

Are you asking us if it is an improvement in dynamic range?

Or are you telling us that it is an improvement in dynamic range?

Or are you telling us that it is not an improvement in dynamic range?

I feel bad that I have to ask you again, but even after reading and re-reading your explanation, I still do not understand what you meant.

.

I think you have to imagine the tone/cadence with which the question would be made in real conversation.

My little boy, checking that he is not going to get into trouble .... "So, I'm allowed?" It's definitely a question but you can only actually tell that by the way it is said in speech or the presence of the question mark in text.

"So, I'm allowed." would be spoken quite differently.

And there, again, there's ... "So? I'm allowed!" ... and all manner of other variants.


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DaviSto
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Feb 02, 2018 02:29 |  #135





Oh ... and ... Tangent alert! - Tangent alert!


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