Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 03 Feb 2018 (Saturday) 09:28
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

hdr imaging help pls :]

 
Nick ­ Aufiero
Senior Member
459 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 86
Joined May 2013
Location: Oklahoma city
Post edited 6 months ago by Nick Aufiero.
     
Feb 03, 2018 09:28 |  #1

I don't do much HDR imaging.
I'm getting into real estate photo and I kinda prefer HDR over flash to start
that being said I need a little help.

I have LR, PS and Photomatix

I shoot a sony 12-24mm and the lens correction is very vital.

Best way of lens correcting then editing?

currently I did
LR: lens correction -> photomatix
Photomatix: HDR process -> export as 16bit tiff
Photoshop


it seems to work out the best but I'm wanting to maintain the highest quality since I shoot in raw, I was unsure of exporting/importing file types and how to best preserve quality


and for peace of mind:
I tried PS HDR merge and wasn't a fan. LR wouldn't actually merge my raw files (not sure why) but I'd imagine it would be the same.

I am trying to keep this process to around 5 minutes per photo, so I don't want anything super in depth


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
DagoImaging
Goldmember
Avatar
1,793 posts
Gallery: 19 photos
Likes: 996
Joined Nov 2012
Post edited 6 months ago by DagoImaging.
     
Feb 03, 2018 10:43 |  #2

If you have a set of photos to share I could document my process for you.

Your process seems fine. Are the results you're getting satisfactory?


Sony a6300/ 16-70/4 / 70-200/4 G / Sony HVL-60M

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nick ­ Aufiero
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
459 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 86
Joined May 2013
Location: Oklahoma city
Post edited 6 months ago by Nick Aufiero.
     
Feb 03, 2018 11:07 as a reply to  @ DagoImaging's post |  #3

so yesterday I actually shot my first house ever it wasn't that bad (ill link them in this comment)
I think it is all OK but I was having issues with lens correction then color balancing and all that.
TBH my only complaint is how bright the highlights are even if I do the fusion/natural or tone balancer

overall I can't complain for it being my first time but I think I may just need to do it more


I just need to mess aroud with how to actually shoot them and how to edit consistently
I have others from the set just haven't finished it yet
are there a good set of presets or plugins for photomatix you can recommend for like indoor real estate stuff?

Again, I think I did an alright job but its just some things seem a little off to me and I can't put my finger on it.

I do want it to look natural tho. I don't want the crazy tonemapped kinda hdr

BTW afterwards I put it into photoshop and used a warm/sharpen layer which is why it looks altered other than HDR. color balancing is honestly the hardest part of all of this ha


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
-Duck-
my head is usually in the way
Avatar
1,597 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 563
Joined Apr 2016
Location: Shelton, CT USA
     
Feb 03, 2018 12:01 |  #4

One of the biggest hurdles most beginners have trouble with is properly bracketing the required images for a satisfactory exposure range. In this case, your blown out highlights from the window was due to an improper bracket on the light coming through that window. You can not meter teh room, do a blind +2/-2 bracket and expect the desired results. That's not the proper way to get your exposure range.

For a proper exposure range calculation when there is extreme light and shadows is to meter for the light in the brightest area (window) to the point where your histogram shows no clipping. Then meter for the darkest area, again so the histogram shows no clipping. That then becomes your exposure range. From that you need to calculate how many frames you'll need to capture the full range. That is simple math if you understand your f/stops and shutter speeds.

A friend of mine, Pat Cook, has a full masterclass on Udemy on how to properly capture the full exposure range in HDR.
https://www.udemy.com/​the-hdr-masterclass/ (external link)

Hope this helps a bit.


"If you didn't learn something new today, you wasted a day."
Unitas Photography (external link)Blog (external link)Facebook (external link)Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Peano
Goldmember
Avatar
1,698 posts
Likes: 87
Joined Aug 2007
     
Feb 03, 2018 12:17 |  #5

Nick Aufiero wrote in post #18555482 (external link)
BTW afterwards I put it into photoshop and used a warm/sharpen layer which is why it looks altered other than HDR. color balancing is honestly the hardest part of all of this ha

Yes! The mixed lighting in this shot is a real challenge. WB is about right for the incandescent lighting but not for the sunlight from outside. That is causing a blue/cyan cast on everything it touches.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


---
Peano
RadiantPics.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nick ­ Aufiero
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
459 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 86
Joined May 2013
Location: Oklahoma city
     
Feb 03, 2018 17:12 as a reply to  @ -Duck-'s post |  #6

I did the 5 bracket of minus 1 each I think. My meter honestly kept going for the window but I thought it would be too dark in the room if I did.

I looked around a lot online to find tutorials for the indoor HDR stuff and couldn't really find any up to date stuff.

I'll keep practicing.
I'm unsure of how I would measure the darkest and lightest spots and still set my brackets accordingly?
like its kinda auto bracket isn't it? where it starts at a certain point and goes up and down?
or am I setting for inbetween them or something?


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nick ­ Aufiero
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
459 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 86
Joined May 2013
Location: Oklahoma city
     
Feb 03, 2018 17:13 as a reply to  @ -Duck-'s post |  #7

also, thanks for the link but sadly I don't have extra cash to spend atm.
Just dropped a bunch on gear so I will keep that link in mind when I get some money for classes


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
-Duck-
my head is usually in the way
Avatar
1,597 posts
Gallery: 14 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 563
Joined Apr 2016
Location: Shelton, CT USA
Post edited 6 months ago by -Duck-.
     
Feb 03, 2018 18:12 |  #8

One way to calculate your exposure bracket (I'll use your example) in the field is to meter for a proper exposure of the bright outside (window). For sake of this example let's say it was 1/500 sec @ f/8.0. Then meter for a proper exposure for the interior shadows. We'll say it was 1/15 sec @ f/8.0. That is a five stop difference. This puts 1/125 sec at the middle point with two and one half stop bracket to each side in order to get a proper exposure range for a suitable HDR.

There are other more technical considerations involved, but this should get you started with some reliable results. When you first start calculating your exposure range, it will be a bit slow. Specially if you can't rattle off stops off the top of your head. I suggest printing an exposure calculator and carrying with you until it becomes second nature. In most normal situation you shouldn't need more than a three exposure bracket. Specially since you are placing your initial exposure right smack in the middle of the bracket (and you are shooting raw).

Hope this clears up a few things for you.


"If you didn't learn something new today, you wasted a day."
Unitas Photography (external link)Blog (external link)Facebook (external link)Flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nick ­ Aufiero
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
459 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 86
Joined May 2013
Location: Oklahoma city
     
Feb 04, 2018 08:29 as a reply to  @ -Duck-'s post |  #9

yeah sorry I brainfarted man. I've been doing so much film work I forget how shutter speeds translate to stops of light.

I understand what you're saying now.


if my camera is set to 1 EV = 1 stop of light ya?

so what would be my best bet for shooting indoor HDR?
I can shoot like 1.0EV 9 images or I can do like 2.0EV 5 images?
is it always better to shoot the most range possible?


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DagoImaging
Goldmember
Avatar
1,793 posts
Gallery: 19 photos
Likes: 996
Joined Nov 2012
     
Feb 04, 2018 09:17 |  #10

You can manually bracket your shots.

Meter for the bright, shoot it and then shoot 1EV higher
Meter for the dark, shoot it and then shoot 1EV lower
Note your highest and lowest and shoot a 3 bracket shot the will give you your middle exposure and above and below it.


Sony a6300/ 16-70/4 / 70-200/4 G / Sony HVL-60M

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nick ­ Aufiero
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
459 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 86
Joined May 2013
Location: Oklahoma city
     
Feb 04, 2018 13:05 as a reply to  @ DagoImaging's post |  #11

makes sense
so that would be a 4 bracket image ya?


confused on that last part. isn't really worded that well haha
are you saying do a -1,0,+1 off of my brightest and the darkest points being properly metered?


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DagoImaging
Goldmember
Avatar
1,793 posts
Gallery: 19 photos
Likes: 996
Joined Nov 2012
     
Feb 04, 2018 17:05 |  #12

Could be, could be 7.

If you meter a normal shot at +3 for the highlights and a -1 for the darks you could end up w/

+4, +3,-1,-2, +1.5, +2.5, +.5

then use the ones needed.


Sony a6300/ 16-70/4 / 70-200/4 G / Sony HVL-60M

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nick ­ Aufiero
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
459 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 86
Joined May 2013
Location: Oklahoma city
     
Feb 05, 2018 09:49 as a reply to  @ DagoImaging's post |  #13

Seems a bit confusing. I'd have to find a good tutorial on how to do it properly.

I usually just do the auto bracket.
I could set it in the middle and do the 9 bracket 1.0EV shots to be safe for now.
Then I guess when it comes to post processing I gotta only use certain ones so its not too many levels to choose from?


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
kirkt
Cream of the Crop
5,570 posts
Likes: 481
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
Post edited 6 months ago by kirkt. (5 edits in all)
     
Feb 05, 2018 14:00 |  #14

Some things to consider:

The scene defines what is "high dynamic range" not the techniques that you use to make the image. This is why it is important to meter the scene and decide what exposure(s) you need to make the image you want. Learn to use the spot meter mode on your camera and practice taking meter readings of the shadows and highlights in your scene. Can your camera effectively capture the scene in one exposure, or do you need to use a bracketed sequence of exposures? To make this determination, you really need to know how exposure works for your camera and the raw converter that you are using. In this regard, using a tool like Raw Digger to analyze your raw files is critical. This way, you will learn just how much headroom you have in the highlights in terms of your base exposure.

For an indoor scene, you probably want to take spot meter readings of the darkest shadow areas you want to preserve and the brightest highlights, typically an area of bright light in an exterior portal like a window or doorway. If there is some important interior lighting that you need to preserve, you may have to take an extra exposure just for those lamps/fixtures and blend that in separately in post.

Learn your exposure sequence in terms of shutter speed increments. Set your camera up so that the shutter speed adjustment dial is predictable - for example, for a Canon camera, you can usually set the shutter speed dial so that the speed is adjusted in 1/2 or 1/3 stop increments. Either way, you can cruise through a sequence simply by counting clicks of the shutter speed dial between shutter releases. Shoot in manual mode, fix WB, ISO and aperture. You do not want color or DoF to change between shots. Manual focus also, you do not want the camera auto-focus hunting around when the underexposed shots are acquired.

Example:

Meter the room in the above image you posted - let's say that you chose to shoot at ISO 100, f/8 daylight WB. This will balance the color for the ambient daylight, causing the artificial light (lamps) to appear warm - not a problem, that can be dealt with later. Meter the scene - the shadow area under the bedside table, let's say, represents the shadow metered reading of 1s; the window represents the highlight and meters at 1/1000s. That's a fairly high-contrast scene that probably cannot be captured in a single exposure. So capture a sequence that starts at the shadow end and ends at the highlight, in 1EV increments. Let's assume you have your shutter speed dial set to 1/3 stop between clicks:

1s - click, click,click - 1/2s - click,click,click etc. - in other words, you do not need to look at the camera when you are capturing your images, just hit the shutter release, roll the shutter speed dial three clicks, hit the shutter release, etc. The capture sequence will be:

1s - 1/2s - 1/4s - 1/8 - 1/15 - 1/30 - 1/60 - 1/125 - 1/250 - 1/500 - 1/1000

11 exposures. Even if you do not need all of them, it took you 15 seconds to capture them, no biggie. Better than shooting too few and not having all the data.

My 5DIV permits an auto-exposure bracket of 7 shots - if your camera does this too, then you can use AEB and the timer to shoot a hands-free 7 shot sequence without doing anything except hitting the shutter release to start the process. Read your camera's manual and see what the AEB capabilities are. If you really want to go for it, see if it offers the AEB on a timer with mirror lock-up too. All of this assumes you are shooting with a tripod - if you are not, then your HDR workflow will get way more difficult than necessary and your image quality will suffer. Indoor scenes usually require longer shutter speeds to capture the indoor shadow areas - jacking up ISO to maintain handheld shooting will unnecessarily create noise and image quality will suffer. A quality tripod goes a long way.

In Lightroom, apply your lens correction and use the LR > Photomatix plug-in to merge your images, if you are doing a small job. Otherwise, process all of your images in LR first (apply the lens correction - that is it, nothing else) and then export all of the source images as 16bit TIFFs. Then use Photomatix's excellent batch processing to do all of your mergers automatically, and output HDR image files as well as toned LDR image files made with a preset you set up ahead of time. Then you will have HDR masters and LDR renderings for further tuning in PS.

In terms of the mixed lighting WB issue, there are plenty of ways to deal with it, but it is ultimately a local correction. Think about how the light is cast from a lamp that appears too warm in the image and then shape a local correction to gently correct that color.

There is no formula for HDR imaging - you need to meter the scene so you know what the bookends of your exposure are. The things you find on the web that say something like "take a meter reading and shoot -2, 0 +2 EV" are usually landscape scenes that can probably be captured in a single exposure anyway, unless the sun is directly imaged in the scene. Interiors pose more of a challenge, but it is a straightforward process to determine the exposure sequence and acquire it. Because the indoor scene has a higher dynamic range than a single exposure image scene, you will probably need to use HDR-savvy software to compress the tonal range. The higher the dynamic range of the scene, the more compression needs to be applied and the more careful one must be to keep the scene appearance natural.

Have fun!

kirk

EDIT: another thing you will find is that your lens can affect your image quality. When you are exposing for the shadow areas, optical aberrations and bloom/flare get much more prominent in uncorrected lenses. In your example image you can see this around the ceiling fan globe and window frame, for example. It pays to work with optics that control flare and glare, as well as color aberrations. Otherwise you add more necessary steps to your workflow and image quality is potentially degraded.


Kirk
---
images: http://kirkt.smugmug.c​om (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Nick ­ Aufiero
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
459 posts
Gallery: 6 photos
Likes: 86
Joined May 2013
Location: Oklahoma city
     
Feb 05, 2018 15:47 as a reply to  @ kirkt's post |  #15

well sadly I use a sony G master 12-24mm and thats the best I get being on sony so there is that


but yeah I understand what you're saying now and I actually found a page with a calculator and some very helpful instructions so I went and reshot some images today and it looks a lot better, at least sooc


My site is www.NickAufiero.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

1,277 views & 2 likes for this thread
hdr imaging help pls :]
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Bill_NY
720 guests, 339 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.