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Thread started 12 Feb 2018 (Monday) 05:16
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Why 13x19?

 
KatManDEW
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Feb 12, 2018 05:16 |  #1

Can anyone explain why manufacturers make 13x19 printers and paper, when DSLR's are 2x3 (12x18) aspect ratio? 13x19 frames are not common (but neither are 12x18 for that matter).

What do you all normally do about printing and framing 2x3 aspect ratio prints?




  
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Scott ­ M
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Feb 12, 2018 06:13 |  #2

I use matting for framing a lot of 2x3 aspect photos. A 24x16 enlargement looks good in a standard 30x20 frame when matted.


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Feb 12, 2018 06:22 |  #3

Scott M wrote in post #18561919 (external link)
I use matting for framing a lot of 2x3 aspect photos. A 24x16 enlargement looks good in a standard 30x20 frame when matted.

I think matted frames generally look best ... although a plain borderless/frameless mounting can also work very well.


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BigAl007
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Feb 12, 2018 06:48 |  #4

If I really want to use cheap off the shelf frames and mats, you should really always use a mat, just to keep the print off the glass, I will crop to the easily available aspect ratio.

For me that means printing 16×12 and framing with a mat in a 20×16 frame. This is fine since I can get 16×12 prints at only £1.15 each, plus £5.00 P&P. I then use frames the come with the mat that cost between £7.50 and £9.00 from either the Wilkinsons or Cherry Lane chains here in the UK. So as by doing this I can get the framed print cost down to under £10 I'm quite happy cropping to match a different format.

If I wanted to go to a 3:2 format then yes I can go to a 18×12 print, but I don't really like having twice the width of mat running on the long edge to the short, which would only add about £4 per item for the custom cut mat, if bought in bulk, or over £10 for small quantities. To get back to a frame with an even mat around the edges means going to a custom frame, and that will mean the frames costing £30 to £40! Since these are for personal use, and the occasional gift, keeping the cost under control is important to me.

Remember also that in general paper sizes for different uses have developed over time, independent of camera formats, of which there are also many. Most PnS compacts, and phone cams use the 4:3 format that matches the 16×12 print format I use. Also remember that if you want a constant width mat all the way round the image, the frame will be of a different aspect ratio to the print. My prints are 4:3, while the frame is 4:5.

Alan


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Post edited 8 months ago by TeamSpeed. (3 edits in all)
     
Feb 12, 2018 07:42 |  #5

As stated, you can mat those prints. Also, I invested in a mat cutting tool, and it has already saved me money. I can do single or double mats pretty easily this way and print 13x19 to fit in a larger frame.

Logan's cutters make quick and easy work of making mats, makes you wonder why they charge so much to do this for you at a hobby shop. You can buy mat material on sale periodically, and the tape is inexpensive. If you are a carpenter with a shop, you can then also make some very nice frames. I still buy mine. :(

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Feb 12, 2018 07:57 |  #6

in america, a tabloid size piece of paper is 11x17, if a designer is laying out a book and wants to print "spreads" (two 8.5x11 sheets joined on the long edge...11x17) and wants to include bleeds, crop lines, other printer marks and a document name outside the live area, 13x19 is a perfect size.

this size paper was in use way before digital photographers used it to print on inkjet printers.


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Feb 12, 2018 11:42 |  #7

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18561944 (external link)
As stated, you can mat those prints. Also, I invested in a mat cutting tool, and it has already saved me money. I can do single or double mats pretty easily this way and print 13x19 to fit in a larger frame.

Logan's cutters make quick and easy work of making mats, makes you wonder why they charge so much to do this for you at a hobby shop. You can buy mat material on sale periodically, and the tape is inexpensive. If you are a carpenter with a shop, you can then also make some very nice frames. I still buy mine. :(

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=3HaN8AFQnoA (external link)


I would love to get into mounting and framing as a serious part of the hobby. I reckon I could set the shop up, with a Logan cutter, along with a power miter saw, and the other bits and bobs you need for framing for about £300, so not really expensive. It's just finding enough use to actually make the investment worth while. I would hate to have all that stuff, and only use it two or three times a year, or less. I also wouldn't want ti to turn into a business either.

The other thing I would really like to see would be an affordable digital laser exposure system for traditional black and white papers. Something like the Océ Lightjet system. I've looked into inkjet or laser printing negatives on clear film, but getting a good negative seems really difficult.

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Feb 12, 2018 12:20 |  #8

All that for just the cost of a rebel camera! I would love to print on metal too.


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Feb 12, 2018 13:08 |  #9

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18562118 (external link)
All that for just the cost of a rebel camera! I would love to print on metal too.


Direct print on metal, and other odd surfaces, isn't that the domain of high end dye sub printing? I suppose that eventually we may well see domestic sized options for that. It's a bit like 3D printing, I'm sure eventually almost everyone will have a 3D printer at home. The only issue with doing things that are on the edge is that there is too little demand to make production of suitable equipment price effective.

I see the results of lack of demand for a product all the time. I should be getting my new power wheelchair delivered on Wednesday. Most people are amazed when I say how much they cost. The chair I'm getting is around £8000, and the usual comment is that you can get a good car for that. If there were demand for power wheelchairs, so that you had factories in China turning them out by the 100000's a year then yes you could probably buy a new chair like mine for only £1000.

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Feb 12, 2018 13:12 as a reply to  @ BigAl007's post |  #10

Well if everyone who needed a wheelchair would buy/lease a new one every three years, like cars are consumed, that would help the volume of business for the wheelchair manufacturers of the world, and get the cost per chair down!


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Feb 12, 2018 13:48 |  #11

BigAl007 wrote in post #18562142 (external link)
Direct print on metal, and other odd surfaces, isn't that the domain of high end dye sub printing? I suppose that eventually we may well see domestic sized options for that. It's a bit like 3D printing, I'm sure eventually almost everyone will have a 3D printer at home. The only issue with doing things that are on the edge is that there is too little demand to make production of suitable equipment price effective.

I see the results of lack of demand for a product all the time. I should be getting my new power wheelchair delivered on Wednesday. Most people are amazed when I say how much they cost. The chair I'm getting is around £8000, and the usual comment is that you can get a good car for that. If there were demand for power wheelchairs, so that you had factories in China turning them out by the 100000's a year then yes you could probably buy a new chair like mine for only £1000.

Alan

$2000-3000 USD will get me the proper conversion of the PRO9000 printer to print metal, but there are less expensive (and lower quality) ways to print metal. Metal prints are very nice to give as gifts, they adorn our house and office, etc. They are amazing to look at when the sun hits the print. I would like to do some as fund raisers too, so that I make money, the organization (like our HS band) would make some money, and people would get one of a kind prints. For now, I just print 13x19 photos since it only costs me about $1-2 each right now. It's not worth the investment yet to print on metal right now.

This was one print on a large metal print, it looks nice in a daylight room.

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Still-Life/Scenic-Moments/i-fR8fBMK/0/b9a25b64/XL/216A8024-XL.jpg


3D printers, good ones, are fast coming down in price. I need to assembly my Prussa MK3, just not enough time to do so. Monoprice has some very nice ones that go on sale every once in a while too, for $300 USD.

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Feb 12, 2018 13:55 |  #12

Wilt wrote in post #18562147 (external link)
Well if everyone who needed a wheelchair would buy/lease a new one every three years, like cars are consumed, that would help the volume of business for the wheelchair manufacturers of the world, and get the cost per chair down!


Wilt, you have struck upon an important point here. The wheelchair manufacturers effectively limit the lifecycle of wheelchairs to three years! Here in the UK probably a majority of them are either leased, or provided via the NHS and/or other Govt agencies, as part of our health system. A lot more are funded by different charity organisations. Since in general if you are disabled you are far more likely to not be well off. In my case because I am an RAF veteran and unable to work because of my disability, the chair is being funded by the RAF Benevolent Fund since I don't qualify for one through the government health service scheme.

Because of potential liability problems, most of these chairs are removed from service at around three years, and disposed of, I guess being recycled. Because of this there are actually surprisingly few second hand power wheelchairs on the market. I already have an old powerchair that was given to me by another military veteran that I knew. She got a new chair through the NHS system, and surprisingly they chose not to take the old one back. As there is still a little life left in the one I have, I am passing it on to someone else who can also make use of it until it stops working. I had to organise this completely independently, since no charity or other organisation would be willing to get involved with the liability aspects.

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Feb 12, 2018 14:03 |  #13

That sounds like a bit of "planned obsolence" on the part of the manufacturers, doesn't it? I presume this is to keep their profit margins up in some way or another?

That was nice of folks to keep their old chairs around and donate them through various foundations! I love hearing stories like that. :)

This is nothing close to your situation, but to point out the odd insurance methods (regardless of who is running it, govt or otherwise)...

My wife had both legs/feet worked on for plantar, and she needed a cart for several weeks each time. The medical facility that our insurance showed a high weekly rate that the insurance company would have funded. So I researched and found a high quality one on Amazon for $200. I contacted insurance and asked whether they would cover $200 vs $80 for 8 weeks, saving them $440. They stated that they could only cover rental equipment for this procedure?

I just ended buying it from our HSA account (pre-tax medical only funding). Since then we have loaned this out to several individuals that needed this over the years. I would say it is profit that drives everything, but in this case, that does not compute because the insurance provider was going to pay more than 3 times the cost. Everything in this industry just frustrates me.


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Feb 12, 2018 14:15 |  #14

BigAl007 wrote in post #18561930 (external link)
...

For me that means printing 16×12 and framing with a mat in a 20×16 frame. ....
Alan

Yep. And there are sometimes 16 x 22 frames or crop aspect ratio and use 16x24 etc.

It's all about how you matte and crop.


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Feb 12, 2018 19:04 |  #15

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18561950 (external link)
in america, a tabloid size piece of paper is 11x17, if a designer is laying out a book and wants to print "spreads" (two 8.5x11 sheets joined on the long edge...11x17) and wants to include bleeds, crop lines, other printer marks and a document name outside the live area, 13x19 is a perfect size.

this size paper was in use way before digital photographers used it to print on inkjet printers.

I did not realize that. Thank you for the information.




  
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Why 13x19?
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