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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 02 Mar 2018 (Friday) 19:45
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It looks like the Canon FF MILC is a ways off yet.

 
mystik610
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Mar 03, 2018 11:38 |  #16

If we're talking FF cameras, you can't really tie the perceptions of random soccer moms into this category. People buying FF cameras that cost several thousands of dollars are not making uniformed decisions based on blind brand perception. Those buyers are better represented by the sentiment on this forum


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Mar 03, 2018 12:55 |  #17

I think manufacturers that continue to ignore mirrorless are going to be in the same situation Kodak was in when they ignored digital. Best to embrace change and innovate!


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Mar 03, 2018 13:35 |  #18

mystik610 wrote in post #18576645 (external link)
If we're talking FF cameras, you can't really tie the perceptions of random soccer moms into this category. People buying FF cameras that cost several thousands of dollars are not making uniformed decisions based on blind brand perception. Those buyers are better represented by the sentiment on this forum

Canon actually actively ignores forums like these. I guess they know where the money is actually at.


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Post edited 8 months ago by mystik610. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 03, 2018 13:56 |  #19

idkdc wrote in post #18576724 (external link)
Canon actually actively ignores forums like these. I guess they know where the money is actually at.

I'm more interested in how well my own camera performs for my needs than the amount of money Canon makes selling three year old rebel kits to soccer moms :-)

The soccer mom market is getting annihilated by smartphones anyway. That's where the money is really at. And guess who makes the majority of those smartphone sensors


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Mar 03, 2018 13:59 |  #20

all i know is the marketing of the A73 with sony being a "budget FF camera" or entry level or whatever it says and giving the performance it has was GREAT marketing.

They are turning into DJI with the phantom/mavic drones. They will take over the market and before anyone can play catch up they will release the next best.

Just how I see it.


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mystik610
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Mar 03, 2018 14:10 |  #21

Talley wrote in post #18576739 (external link)
all i know is the marketing of the A73 with sony being a "budget FF camera" or entry level or whatever it says and giving the performance it has was GREAT marketing.

They are turning into DJI with the phantom/mavic drones. They will take over the market and before anyone can play catch up they will release the next best.

Just how I see it.

They basically made a camera that is comparable to the 5iv, and are selling it for the price of the 6dii. Say what you will about that but it's a tremendous value regardless.


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Mar 03, 2018 14:41 as a reply to  @ mystik610's post |  #22

Yes, but you think your needs are more representative of the market. Contradictory train of thought.


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Post edited 8 months ago by mystik610. (4 edits in all)
     
Mar 03, 2018 14:54 |  #23

idkdc wrote in post #18576757 (external link)
Yes, but you think your needs are more representative of the market. Contradictory train of thought.

Hehe I care about my needs, not what the rest of the market needs. Sony speaks to my needs, so I'm a Sony customer. End of story.

With regards to actually listening to their customers though, I've shot Sony for several years now and for all of the SMH moments that there have been throughout this process, the one thing that stands out is that Sony is listening to their customers. If you listen to you any of the interviews from Sony engineers and management, they are very keen on the feedback of their customers, and it shows in how they very specifically address the criticisms of their products and business with each subsequent release. People complain about battery life? They specifically made the battery larger. People complain about service? They launch a stellar Sony Pro Support service. Even things like compressed raw that Sony insisted didn't have material impacts to IQ....people bitched about it on the internet, so they released uncompressed raw via firmware only for us to discover that there really wasn't a material impact to IQ.

That's what distinctly stands out from having been a Canon customer and being a Sony customer. Canon shooters are expected to conform to what Canon does and what they decide to release, and they very blatantly do things like cripple lower end products to protect higher margin products. i.e. DR doesn't matter until Canon finally released a sensor with competitive DR, but now everyone is upset that the 6DII sensor doesn't have better DR?

The opposite is true of Sony, in that they are very specifically trying to conform to the needs of their customers. It hasn't always been pretty, but as a company, Sony has the scrappiness of someone that is trying to win my business instead of padding their margins. They're willing to cannibalize the hell out of the a9 and a7rIII to bring a lot of value to customers in the a7III because they really want to win this market. I appreciate that.


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Mar 03, 2018 15:06 as a reply to  @ mystik610's post |  #24

Wow, that much text.

Your original thought was that your individual needs are more reprentative of all forum posters here, and that you represent greater purchasing power than other customers.

Both just isn’t true from the numbers we’re seeing.


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Post edited 8 months ago by mystik610. (3 edits in all)
     
Mar 03, 2018 15:23 |  #25

idkdc wrote in post #18576777 (external link)
Wow, that much text.

Your original thought was that your individual needs are more reprentative of all forum posters here, and that you represent greater purchasing power than other customers.

Both just isn’t true from the numbers we’re seeing.

I'm not speaking in a macro sense at all. All I'm saying is that I don't really care what anyone else purchases because I can think for myself and will buy based on my own needs. So what soccer mom, or uncle bob shoots has no bearing on me. As a photographer who can think for myself, I couldn't care less that Canon has more sales by volume.

But if we're talking numbers, mirrorless sales are growing, while DSLR sales are declining and that's a fact that even Canon acknowledges in the article posted by the OP.


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Mar 03, 2018 15:26 |  #26

I just checked Facebook. This morning a woman had asked abou the YN flash that uses canon RT tech. She wanted to match it with a YN 622. I gave her some info about the system, and then suggested she look into Godox.

Since then a couple of people posted that YN is great. One bragged about her 580ex and YN 603. I would say there is almost zero chance the OP buys Godox. Probably a high chance they end up with a 603, and have zero idea what they are buying or the limitations of the equipment.

Many of those folks charge for their services. Many have FF cameras. I don't think I have ever seen a mention of Sony cameras, and only began seeing YN mentions a year or so ago.

I 100 percent agree that Sony offers a highly competitive camera, virtually equal to canon at this point. But people are funny. It takes a lot of time to change habits.

Oh, and as far as the drone market is concerned, considering there was no market for that type product just 10 years ago, it's maybe not the best comparison. Big difference between dethroning the king and discovering a new uninhabited land.


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Mar 03, 2018 15:30 as a reply to  @ mystik610's post |  #27

1. That’s false equivalence. Canon users do not = soccer moms.
2. Mirrorless numbers include Canon, ranked at 2.


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Mar 03, 2018 15:39 |  #28

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18576792 (external link)
I just checked Facebook. This morning a woman had asked abou the YN flash that uses canon RT tech. She wanted to match it with a YN 622. I gave her some info about the system, and then suggested she look into Godox.

Since then a couple of people posted that YN is great. One bragged about her 580ex and YN 603. I would say there is almost zero chance the OP buys Godox. Probably a high chance they end up with a 603, and have zero idea what they are buying or the limitations of the equipment.

Many of those folks charge for their services. Many have FF cameras. I don't think I have ever seen a mention of Sony cameras, and only began seeing YN mentions a year or so ago.

I 100 percent agree that Sony offers a highly competitive camera, virtually equal to canon at this point. But people are funny. It takes a lot of time to change habits.

Oh, and as far as the drone market is concerned, considering there was no market for that type product just 10 years ago, it's maybe not the best comparison. Big difference between dethroning the king and discovering a new uninhabited land.

you know godox has taken the flash market by storm. Word spreads fast, yongnuo is basically on life support.


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Post edited 8 months ago by mystik610. (6 edits in all)
     
Mar 03, 2018 15:42 |  #29

idkdc wrote in post #18576797 (external link)
1. That’s false equivalence. Canon users do not = soccer moms.
2. Mirrorless numbers include Canon, ranked at 2.

Yes but if we're talking about who's driving the majority of Canon's sales, look at the top selling cameras in 2017:

https://www.reinisfisc​her.com …selling-dslr-cameras-2017 (external link)

For those part, its entry level DSLR's (soccer mom cameras)...many of which are several years old. Those are the products that are driving sales numbers. Why should anyone who wants a high performing product care about how many T5's Canon sold last year?

Canon had the number 2 mirrorless sales by again, selling a bunch of entry level EOS-M kits. I'm not of that market segment, and neither are most people here.

Edit: no offense to soccer mom's/dad's. It's just an easier term to use than "families, including mothers who enjoy taking pictures of their children." (canon's words, not mine :-))


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Mar 03, 2018 15:50 as a reply to  @ mystik610's post |  #30

No worries.

May I ask what are the top selling Sony cameras and lenses?

We’re not. But that doesn’t mean we represent better total buying power.


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It looks like the Canon FF MILC is a ways off yet.
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