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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 04 Dec 2017 (Monday) 21:17
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Basketball focus technique

 
heat00
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Jan 27, 2018 21:45 as a reply to  @ post 18550562 |  #46

I understand that, I meant it needs less light to allow a lower iso, and in turn a higher shutter speed.




  
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heat00
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Jan 27, 2018 21:46 as a reply to  @ post 18550566 |  #47

Yes but it’s not possible with my camera....this camera stops at 6400 max and if I tried to shoot at 6400 and 1.1000 or above, it would be worthless lol




  
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MizzouMan_2000
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Post edited 9 months ago by MizzouMan_2000.
     
Jan 27, 2018 22:07 |  #48

heat00 wrote in post #18550542 (external link)
so from what I'm seeing here, the 5dIII seems to handle these terribly lit gyms and high ISO much better than the 7dII?
you give up the 10FPS and anti flicker but get much better quality/less noise from what I see, and a better focal range?

Teamspeed, I hope you're not sick of my indecision on this issue :)

it's a very difficult decision for me as both have major advantages

When in doubt, rent. :)



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MizzouMan_2000
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Post edited 9 months ago by MizzouMan_2000. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 28, 2018 10:47 |  #49

Also, I recently saw that lensrentals.com is having a deal - 7 days for the price of 4. I don't know when it expires, though. Checkout their Facebook page to see details.

Edit: looks like the offer expires Wednesday.
https://www.lensrental​s.com …=2018+Winter+Fr​ee+Weekend (external link)



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heat00
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Jan 28, 2018 18:56 as a reply to  @ MizzouMan_2000's post |  #50

thanks. it's not really an option as my next tournament isn't for 2 weeks I think... and I don't really want to deal with that process... I'll suck it up at some point and just pick one, and live with it lol.....




  
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ChrisMc73
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Post edited 8 months ago by ChrisMc73. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 05, 2018 11:52 |  #51

I've rented the 5DMKIV and have been shooting some of the Women's Big 12 Basketball Tourney here in OKC. My client doesn't want any of the actual in game action, but I'm allowed access to shoot it as I feel the need. So I've been doing it a little each game to get the experience I've been gifted with my all access opportunity. I must say its been a learning curve and I feel very inadequate with this camera vs. all the real media photogs down there with me, who have 1D's and D5s and multiple bodies with various lens sizes, lol.

Then there's me with my 5DMKIV, no battery grip, and the 70-200mm 2.8 IS MKI, lol.

Regardless I'm trying to understand how to shoot in Manual mode down there. I got this same chance last year it was a blur to me, I shot at the Mens and Women's tourneys, this year its just the Women, but I'll take the added experience for sure. I started out shooting in Tv mode, to get some ideas on what settings should be for Manual mode. What I'm finding goes along with a lot of your shots here in these posts. The higher ISO is ok with the 5DMKIV, I was kind of worried about it but I guess it handles it great. It appears most of you like to shoot from 2.8, 3.0, to 3.5, not sure how 4.0 or higher turn out? Also appears 1/800 - 1/1600 is kind of a good area to land to capture a solid frozen picture? Some of you even higher than that.

My question is when you're shooting in manual, do you move around in these settings constantly throughout the game? Or do you shoot a while at first moving around, then settle in on a setting you stick with for the rest of the game once you find the sweet spot? I tried to observe these guys who do this everyday for a living and they don't seem to mess with settings much though thats hard to tell with how quickly they can change and tweak their settings.

Also what focus setting do you all use, AI Servo? One Spot? etc...and why?

Thanks!




  
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Post edited 8 months ago by TeamSpeed. (11 edits in all)
     
Mar 05, 2018 12:00 |  #52

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #18578184 (external link)
I've rented the 5DMKIV and have been shooting some of the Women's Big 12 Basketball Tourney here in OKC. My client doesn't want any of the actual in game action, but I'm allowed access to shoot it as I feel the need. So I've been doing it a little each game to get the experience I've been gifted with my all access opportunity. I must say its been a learning curve and I feel very inadequate with this camera vs. all the real media photogs down there with me, who have 1D's and D5s and multiple bodies with various lens sizes, lol.

Then there's me with my 5DMKIV, no batter grip, and the 70-200mm 2.8 IS MKI, lol.

Regardless I'm trying to understand how to shoot in Manual mode down there. I got this chance last year, I shot at the Mens and Women's tourneys, this year its just the Women, but I'll take the added experience for sure. I started out shooting in Tv mode, to get some ideas on what settings should be for Manual mode. What I'm finding goes along with a lot of your shots here in these posts. The higher ISO is ok with the 5DMKIV, I was kind of worried about it but I guess it handles it great. It appears most of you like to shoot from 2.8, 3.0, to 3.5, not sure how 4.0 or higher turn out? Also appears 1/800 - 1/1600 is kind of a good area to land to capture a solid frozen picture? Some of you even higher than that.

My question is when you're shooting in manual, do you move around in these settings constantly throughout the game? Or do you shoot a while at first moving around, then settle in on a setting you stick with for the rest of the game once you find the sweet spot? I tried to observe these guys who do this everyday for a living and they don't seem to mess with settings much though thats hard to tell with how quickly they can change and tweak their settings.

Also what focus setting do you all use, AI Servo? One Spot? etc...and why?

Thanks!

1) Don't let the 1D crowd intimidate you. I will put my 5D4 shots against any of them, and I have compared shots from some of the guys that show up with the 1D series, and I have shot also with 1D. The results are all about the glass and photographer and settings, there is little difference between the 1D and 5D4 sensors, especially considering the resolution bump you have at your disposal.

2) I used to use the 70-200 MKI, but with the higher density sensors, the MKII is much better.

3) I have set up C3 on my dial as the following, and never change any AF setting ever during the season (same venue though). I know these from heart only because this weekend, I accidentally had my dial set to C2 instead of C3, made some changes and then re-registered to C3. That wiped out my C3 Basketball setting with my C2 Wedding. I had to set all this up again. :(

a) Manual Mode basis, custom white balance set (or had it locked at 3800K or so, I have to pull up old raw files to see)
b) Auto ISO 100 through 25600
c) EC of +1/3
d) AF Case 2 with some tweaks to the sliders
e) Single point (not spot, and not expansion), with orientation option chosen. Top most middle AF for both landscape and portrait, or one below top, can't remember
f) AI Servo ALWAYS, if you want to shoot One Shot, you can customize the DOF button, I believe, to do One Shot if you keep it pressed
g) Shutter speed of 1/2000 (but you could strive for 1/1250), better to have a noisy but crisp shot, than a blurry but noise free shot
h) Custom picture style
i) Shoot both Raw and JPG, but these days, the OOC JPGs are fine to use
j) f2.8, but sometimes will bump that up to f3.5 just to increase the area of focus a bit
l) High ISO NR set to standard, custom picture style bumps up sharpness a bit

Post processing involves cropping for composition, and any noise reduction needed still.

Case in point about not being intimated, with similar equipment, the better photographer and post processor wins! I am better with post processing and settings in the camera as others that shoot 1Ds.

This guy shot the same game, shoots for SI and Getty, and sat about 10' down from me, using a 1D (I think a 1DX).

https://www.gettyimage​s.com …-iowa-picture-id924223266 (external link)

My shot of the same dunk, but he had the better vantage point. I don't like to shoot where he was, because refs are always in front of me, so I sit a bit further down. I think Ron is afraid of high ISO, and doesn't seem to set up his WB correctly. I talked with him in the past, but he doesn't seem to like to talk shop, or to anyone that doesn't sport more equipment than he does, I guess.

https://gerberphotos.s​mugmug.com …n/Feb-25-2018/i-gn3cx3h/A (external link)


Don't be afraid of higher ISOs but it does require command of post processing and good NR tools.

ISO 16000 on the 5D4, OOC JPG that was processed... a bit heavy on the sharpening, but I was trying out some more edgy edits this game.

IMAGE: https://photos.smugmug.com/Sports-Events/Mad-Ants-Current-Season/Feb-25-2018/i-7xKqkfd/0/aabc02eb/X2/FX8A8098a-X2.jpg

How about ISO 25600? Still see the details of the tattoos and arm hair... The problem here though is that color fidelity/DR is reduced and you have to saturate them up a bit.

https://gerberphotos.s​mugmug.com …/Feb-25-2018/i-HTqwgKq/X5 (external link)

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ChrisMc73
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Post edited 8 months ago by ChrisMc73.
     
Mar 05, 2018 13:47 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #53

Yeah I can see what you're saying. I don't let them intimidate me, its more of gear envy, lol, and the fact they get to do this everyday, all the time, and its so much fun, and for me its just a side job to get more experience and some extra cash, so I can't compare myself to them yet. There is a guy who's been at these same tourneys I've been to this year and last who is kind of like that guy you mentioned, not a lot of shop talk, strictly business. Wished he was more open, but guess he'd feel threatened or something who knows.

You reminded me of another question, shooting just JPG, someone mentioned maybe these guys know their settings so well they can just shoot JPG not worry about the RAW files and so their cameras that shoot 14fps in machine gun mode handle the buffer well, cause I was asking a friend about how my buffer seems to hit its limit pretty quick and I know the 5DMKIV is not as many fps as the other cameras but I can get usually 5-7 quick shots but I don't think I can shoot like they do with the machine gun fully automatic mode, point at player fire away, repeat over and over, cause the buffer usually slows me down. Again, I'm learning the camera and shoot situation, hoping I can find more jobs like it soon.

You seem to be involved in the NBA G League games, thats a perfect place for me to learn, I wonder how I could possibly get involved with the OKC G League team, and maybe come shoot those games like you get to do? You wouldn't happen to know who I'd talk to? I guess I can try to find some kind of contact for the team online and just cold email them?

Also, I've had my gear since 2007, its a 5DMKII and a 24-70 and 70-200 MKI's, but I've rented the 5DMKIV to use for these jobs with my current glass. I love this 5DMKIV so much that I guess I need to just try to sell my kit and get newer glass in both those lenses as well as the body, I bet it would help a little with my cost to upgrade.

Thanks for your insights and info.




  
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Post edited 8 months ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Mar 05, 2018 14:52 |  #54

Get a fast CF card and write to just that card, chances are sdhc will limit you a bit.

I originally contacted the team marketing guy and asked for a media pass in exchange for full access to what I shoot. I already had a portfolio for them to see. Chances are you won't be paid for this for a time. Over the years, they ended up depending on me over their other sources and decided to contract with me. Takes time and patience, and also find out how to make yourself indispensable by providing special requests of presentations on the court or otherwise. I can provide them shots on the web during the game taken with the 5d4 so that they don't have to worry about that for the social media folks.

I would love more burst but want resolution as a higher priority right now. I have a very good feel for action and when to time shots, so the burst speed and depth isn't usually a huge concern for me now. I might be looking at the Sony a9 this year though, as I try out mirrorless.


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Mar 05, 2018 16:24 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #55

So did you contact the NBA Team marketing guy or is there a person who does it for the G League team itself? I can only find info on the Thunder themselves, not the Blue is why I'm asking, maybe thats who I need to email? I don't care to get paid right now, would be nice but I think the experience is what I'm after, learning the shooting techniques and settings, and not having high stress, and sharing my work is fine getting my work out is fine, letting them use it would be an honor. Then maybe getting called up for a Thunder game or something one day, lol...thats all I'm after right now. Sounds like you got setup good there, will you ever get to shoot the NBA team? Or have you?




  
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Post edited 8 months ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Mar 05, 2018 18:41 as a reply to  @ ChrisMc73's post |  #56

I contacted our team office directly.

Not sure if I will go down to Indy and shoot a Pacers game. I wouldn't decline if they offered. :) I have hobnobbed with NBA commissioners and the Pacers general management from time to time. As we approach tournament time, we get alot more traffic from the NBA main offices through our games.


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Mar 11, 2018 11:55 |  #57

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #18578184 (external link)
My question is when you're shooting in manual, do you move around in these settings constantly throughout the game? Or do you shoot a while at first moving around, then settle in on a setting you stick with for the rest of the game once you find the sweet spot?

Shutter speed to 1250
Aperture wide open
Meter off a midtone then set ISO and shoot a test shot. Done.

A flock of players in white shirts will make your meter think the shot is over exposed but if the lighting isn't changing it is just the meter being dumb so no need to change settings.


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MizzouMan_2000
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Mar 11, 2018 12:03 |  #58

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18582758 (external link)
Shutter speed to 1250
Aperture wide open
Meter off a midtone then set ISO and shoot a test shot. Done.

A flock of players in white shirts will make your meter think the shot is over exposed but if the lighting isn't changing it is just the meter being dumb so no need to change settings.

Exactly- except I am for 1/1600 ss.



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Mar 11, 2018 18:07 |  #59

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18582758 (external link)
Shutter speed to 1250
Aperture wide open
Meter off a midtone then set ISO and shoot a test shot. Done.

A flock of players in white shirts will make your meter think the shot is over exposed but if the lighting isn't changing it is just the meter being dumb so no need to change settings.

Ok, and so on the Canon cameras, like others said, use AI Server? Then the AF points, I guess is all preference, I can't remember what I used, I think I had the one selected that had all 61 or whatever points active.
I didn't end up shooting a lot of the games, they really wanted more promotional type street photography, anything that had their logo in it, without other logos or players, things they couldn't use cause it would require permission.
I mean I still took some for my own keeping, but didn't get a lot because I didn't want to ruin my chances of the gig repeating. I got some of their logo with blurred out players where they could use them and they did on their Twitter feeds, so I think I did my job.




  
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Mar 13, 2018 04:07 |  #60

ChrisMc73 wrote in post #18583059 (external link)
Ok, and so on the Canon cameras, like others said, use AI Server?

Back button focus and AI servo

Then the AF points, I guess is all preference, I can't remember what I used, I think I had the one selected that had all 61 or whatever points active.

No, if you have all the AF points selected then the camera will focus on whatever is closest (and falls under an AF point) instead of what you choose to focus on. Select single AF point and move it as needed.


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Basketball focus technique
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