Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 14 Mar 2018 (Wednesday) 00:00
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Strobe sync or shutter issue? 5D4

 
battletone
Senior Member
Avatar
503 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Sep 2009
Post edited 3 months ago by battletone.
     
Mar 14, 2018 00:00 |  #1

My 5D4 is given a clearly visible dark gradient at the bottom of frames when shot at 1/200th. Completely gone at 1/160th. There was 1 single shot out of about 200 in my last session it caught black and I thought I bumped my shutter speed but I didn’t.

How do I diagnose this?

I am using pocket wizards and photogenic strobes with one on the camera and the other with the phono plug out and into a strobe, then letting the other strobe trigger off that.

I have turned off one strobe, and tested to verify it happens. Then I swapped strobes and tested again with the same issue.

Hooked up the PC Sync cable directly and it’s less, but still there. I probably wouldn’t have caught it in most circumstances with a direct cable, but adjusting contrast shows it’s there for sure.

So am I missing something to test or should I be reaching out to Canon for repair? Still under warranty.


Cameras: 5D Mark IV, EOS 3, Elan 7
Lenses:15mm 2.8 fisheye, 16-35mm 2.8L II, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L, 70-200L II IS
Tripod: Gitzo GT2531, Arca-Swiss Z1, RRS PC-LR
Lights: Photogenic PL1250 x2, 1500SL x1, Canon 580ex, YN 568ex II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
joeseph
"smells like turd"
Avatar
9,404 posts
Gallery: 52 photos
Likes: 1253
Joined Jan 2004
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
     
Mar 14, 2018 04:41 |  #2

any physical shutter issue should be visable in daylight (i.e. without any flash etc to complicate the issue)
best run some tests with normal sunlight & see if there are any issues, suspect a shutter problem will be more predominant at higher shutterspeeds.


some fairly old canon camera stuff, canon lenses, Manfrotto "thingy", 1D MK II converted for IR, and now an M5
TF posting: here :-)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
BigAl007
Cream of the Crop
7,699 posts
Gallery: 526 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 1474
Joined Dec 2010
Location: Repps cum Bastwick, Gt Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK.
     
Mar 14, 2018 04:44 |  #3

Although the camera has a sync speed of 1/200 the combination of the triggers and the strobe is enough to make for timing errors that are visible. The fact that you got a better, although not perfect result when using the PC connection is a strong indicator of this. I would expect that using Canon speedlights you would see no issues at all when shooting at the full 1/200s. As long as Canon speedlights work OK Canon will see that as the camera not being at fault, and I would agree with them.

Look on the bright side, even quite well into the 80's the normal sync speed for focal plane shutters was a measly 1/60s, so what we have now is over twice as fast.

Alan


My Flickr (external link)
My new Aviation images blog site (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
battletone
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
503 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Sep 2009
     
Mar 14, 2018 08:05 |  #4

joeseph wrote in post #18585202 (external link)
any physical shutter issue should be visable in daylight (i.e. without any flash etc to complicate the issue)
best run some tests with normal sunlight & see if there are any issues, suspect a shutter problem will be more predominant at higher shutterspeeds.

How so? What I am implying is the flash is being triggered to late and is ever so slightly missing the “window”.


Cameras: 5D Mark IV, EOS 3, Elan 7
Lenses:15mm 2.8 fisheye, 16-35mm 2.8L II, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L, 70-200L II IS
Tripod: Gitzo GT2531, Arca-Swiss Z1, RRS PC-LR
Lights: Photogenic PL1250 x2, 1500SL x1, Canon 580ex, YN 568ex II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
battletone
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
503 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Sep 2009
     
Mar 14, 2018 08:10 |  #5

BigAl007 wrote in post #18585204 (external link)
Although the camera has a sync speed of 1/200 the combination of the triggers and the strobe is enough to make for timing errors that are visible. The fact that you got a better, although not perfect result when using the PC connection is a strong indicator of this. I would expect that using Canon speedlights you would see no issues at all when shooting at the full 1/200s. As long as Canon speedlights work OK Canon will see that as the camera not being at fault, and I would agree with them.

Look on the bright side, even quite well into the 80's the normal sync speed for focal plane shutters was a measly 1/60s, so what we have now is over twice as fast.

Alan

Well but a speedlight is faster than a strobe lol. I do have one somewhere. I’ll test it. But just because it was better than 40 years ago doesn’t make it okay. It’s marketed as 1/200th.


Cameras: 5D Mark IV, EOS 3, Elan 7
Lenses:15mm 2.8 fisheye, 16-35mm 2.8L II, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L, 70-200L II IS
Tripod: Gitzo GT2531, Arca-Swiss Z1, RRS PC-LR
Lights: Photogenic PL1250 x2, 1500SL x1, Canon 580ex, YN 568ex II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
33,282 posts
Gallery: 72 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 3543
Joined May 2002
Location: Northern Indiana
     
Mar 14, 2018 13:56 |  #6

Not a shutter issue, those usually occur or are visible at the faster shutter speeds, not slower ones. This sounds very much like a sync issue.


Past Equipment | My Gallery (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
battletone
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
503 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Sep 2009
Post edited 3 months ago by battletone. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 14, 2018 14:36 |  #7

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18585533 (external link)
Not a shutter issue, those usually occur or are visible at the faster shutter speeds, not slower ones. This sounds very much like a sync issue.

But could it be software at all? How do I determine if the delay is the strobe firing late, the shutter going off early (like not sending the signal in time)? I can see the shutter creep in clearly and black at 250th, and that gradient it creates is whats still visible at 200th before being gone at 160th. I guess, without a scientific tool to measure its hard to tell if its the fault of the stobe or the camera...but I tried two strobes....


Cameras: 5D Mark IV, EOS 3, Elan 7
Lenses:15mm 2.8 fisheye, 16-35mm 2.8L II, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L, 70-200L II IS
Tripod: Gitzo GT2531, Arca-Swiss Z1, RRS PC-LR
Lights: Photogenic PL1250 x2, 1500SL x1, Canon 580ex, YN 568ex II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
33,282 posts
Gallery: 72 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 3543
Joined May 2002
Location: Northern Indiana
     
Mar 14, 2018 14:57 as a reply to  @ battletone's post |  #8

Did you play with the curtain settings any? Also the max sync speed of the 5d is 1/200, so anything faster obviously is going to show issues.


Past Equipment | My Gallery (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ramon-uk
Senior Member
613 posts
Gallery: 41 photos
Likes: 149
Joined Mar 2006
     
Mar 14, 2018 14:58 |  #9

battletone wrote in post #18585569 (external link)
But could it be software at all? How do I determine if the delay is the strobe firing late, the shutter going off early (like not sending the signal in time)? I can see the shutter creep in clearly and black at 250th, and that gradient it creates is whats still visible at 200th before being gone at 160th. I guess, without a scientific tool to measure its hard to tell if its the fault of the stobe or the camera...but I tried two strobes....

Test it with a genuine Canon flashgun either on the PC socket or in the hot shoe, if you still have the problem then you know it's the camera at fault.
Personally I always use a shutter speed just below the maximum sync speed when I use external triggers, after all adding extra electronics into the system must add a few milliseconds of delay.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
battletone
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
503 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Sep 2009
     
Mar 14, 2018 15:21 |  #10

Ramon-uk wrote in post #18585590 (external link)
Test it with a genuine Canon flashgun either on the PC socket or in the hot shoe, if you still have the problem then you know it's the camera at fault.
Personally I always use a shutter speed just below the maximum sync speed when I use external triggers, after all adding extra electronics into the system must add a few milliseconds of delay.

Okay. If this is only a true sync speed with canon speedlite then that changes everything and is what it is. I just never ran into this at max settings with my 6D so I figured it was still good at max on this. Maybe the strobes take a hint longer to actually fire off too electronically, dunno.
Thanks.


Cameras: 5D Mark IV, EOS 3, Elan 7
Lenses:15mm 2.8 fisheye, 16-35mm 2.8L II, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L, 70-200L II IS
Tripod: Gitzo GT2531, Arca-Swiss Z1, RRS PC-LR
Lights: Photogenic PL1250 x2, 1500SL x1, Canon 580ex, YN 568ex II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
battletone
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Avatar
503 posts
Gallery: 8 photos
Likes: 67
Joined Sep 2009
     
Mar 14, 2018 15:24 |  #11

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18585588 (external link)
Did you play with the curtain settings any? Also the max sync speed of the 5d is 1/200, so anything faster obviously is going to show issues.

Like first or second curtain? I don't' think so. I will have to check. If thats the case then that could explain it waiting to fire and it starting to close before the strobe is done.


Cameras: 5D Mark IV, EOS 3, Elan 7
Lenses:15mm 2.8 fisheye, 16-35mm 2.8L II, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L, 70-200L II IS
Tripod: Gitzo GT2531, Arca-Swiss Z1, RRS PC-LR
Lights: Photogenic PL1250 x2, 1500SL x1, Canon 580ex, YN 568ex II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cristphoto
Senior Member
869 posts
Likes: 35
Joined Feb 2010
Location: Maryland
     
Mar 14, 2018 17:07 |  #12

Try turning off the "Flicker" feature in the 5D4. This can cause a few timing issues. However I agree with the other responses about its not a camera issue. I have Norman strobes and they have a blurb in their owners manual about max synch speed when using radio triggers vs a pc cord.


5D MKIV, 5D MKIII, 1D MKIV, 24L II, 35L, 50L, 85LIS, 100LIS Macro, 135L, 300LIS, 16-35L, 24-70L, 70-200LIS, 100-400LIS

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
40,183 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2023
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Mar 15, 2018 01:11 |  #13

battletone wrote in post #18585299 (external link)
How so? What I am implying is the flash is being triggered to late and is ever so slightly missing the “window”.

You hit the nail on the head. Some 'budget' radio triggers put a bit of delay into the transmission of the radio control signal and the execution of the received command in the radio receiver. So what should X-sync at 1/200 becomes a requirement to reduce shutter speed to 1/160. One brand and model of radio trigger can exhibit this, while a different brand and model have no problem.


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lbsimon
...never exercised in my life
Avatar
2,611 posts
Gallery: 17 photos
Likes: 227
Joined Jan 2011
Location: Boston, MA
     
Mar 16, 2018 18:23 |  #14

Wilt wrote in post #18585940 (external link)
You hit the nail on the head. Some 'budget' radio triggers put a bit of delay into the transmission of the radio control signal and the execution of the received command in the radio receiver. So what should X-sync at 1/200 becomes a requirement to reduce shutter speed to 1/160. One brand and model of radio trigger can exhibit this, while a different brand and model have no problem.

Do you realize that you are just a few posts short of 40,000? :-)


5D Mark IV | 6D | S110
EF 17-40L | EF 24-105L (two) | EF 70-200L F4 IS | EF 100-400L II | EF 85 1.8 | EF 50 1.8 STM | Canon 1.4x III | Canon 1.4x II
Yongnuo 685 | Nissin Di622 M2 | Nissin Di422

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
40,183 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 2023
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
     
Mar 16, 2018 23:09 as a reply to  @ Lbsimon's post |  #15

Yeah, been haunting POTN for a long time. My average is only about 8 posts a day!


You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support https://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

4,346 views & 2 likes for this thread
Strobe sync or shutter issue? 5D4
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is brotherbear86
835 guests, 362 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.