a68 Vs. a77ii

Something to keep in mind when you're looking at EyeAF, is that only the recently released cameras can do continuous EyeAF (AF-C), which is a LOT more effective than single-shot AF eyeAF (AF-S).

Another one, and I read what you said in the original post, but here goes anyways
Have you taken a look at the A7 iii? It wasn't announced yet when you originally posted, but it is a very solid option. Awesome EyeAF, based on reviews very-very good overall AF, plus all the other improvements of the mk3 generation.

It is 2000$ for body only, and 2200$ with the kit lens, but you could probably get it for 200-300$ cheaper through Greentoe. (for reference, I got the A7Riii for 450$ off, about 1 month after it was released. Got it for 2750$). So perhaps you could pull off the A7iii for 1700-1800$, or the body+lens for 1900-2000$.

Yarik,
SMH, I forgot about Eye AF in AF-S only for the older cameras..

IIRC, the A6300 and A7RII were the first to have AF-C with Eye AF.

Since the A7III is over the top of the budget (though from all Ive seen its worth every penny),
Ill have to go back to the A6300 and maybe add a battery grip (3rd party, WTH sony??)
to give it a little more real estate for hand hold.

Curious... if on the A68, can the Eye AF function button be assigned to shutter?
Then 1/2 press would be eye focus and then full press would be shutter release?
Even if Eye AF was assigned to a button for AF-S, it *might* still be usable for
my applications.. but honestly, if Im going to upgrade, might as well step up
enough to at least get AF-C Eye AF!

Last time I shot two toddlers with my Nikon D5300, running 35mm f1.8 on some,
2.8 - 3.5 on several.. Having to focus and compose was no fun what so ever..
these little animals cant hold a pose so its non stop chasing the eye with
focus and compose. My hit rate was decent but I had a few shots that were
AWESOME... and out of focus. Darn it!

Andrew

I wonder also.. if track on focus around the eye, in AF-C (A77II should be able to do track on in AF-C) would provide satisfactory results?
Anyone tried this?

Im starting to think that just maybe, if I didnt put so much focus (excuse the pun agn!) on Eye AF in AF-C then the A68 would
go back on top of the list and still deliver greater satisfaction than my current D5300 or proposed D7200.

Not having any of these cameras in my hands to play with.. its still going to be clicking Buy Now on mostly blind faith.

Andrew

Can someone help me fill in the "?" parts. Ive looked though all the details
from various pages, not sure if I am overlooking it.

Far left, green = more desirable features
far left, yellow = not critical features

notations at end indicate degree of importance.

for the $$$, the a68 still ticks off more of the green boxes
than the others, even though on paper, the a6300 out performs it.

This is based on needs and desires rather than "cutting edge".

Don't know if it got mentioned, but according to the specs I just read the A68 weighs over a pound more that the A77ii.
I've been shooting the A77ii for quite a while and it does every thing I want and more. Have done BIF and macro with it extensively.
They can be found used at a price between the A68 and a new A77ii.

As someone who is on his third a-mount body (a77, a77ii, now a99ii), it isn't like I dislike the a-mount bodies. I really, really enjoy shooting with them and I hope Sony doesn't discontinue the mount. There are a-mount lenses that absolutely compete with the good e-mount glass right now and for less money. There are handling advantages due to the conventional size and form factor of the DSLT body that I enjoy when I'm shooting with money or consequences on the line. Battery life is better and I know the body can take a beating . . . the articulating screen is a nice advantage over anything e-mount.

All of that said, I enjoyed shooting with my a6000 more than I have any body I've ever owned. It wins for portability and the IQ consistently surprised me . . . and it was consistently just a little better in IQ than either of my a77 bodies anytime over ISO 100. I really think the a6000 tracked better than the a77ii, but I never ran any tests. I shot basketball and baseball with both, football only with the a77 bodies.

If I'm starting over with zero glass, I go e-mount and don't look back. But as a prime shooter who was able to buy three of the best a-mount primes ever made for a total of $1900, staying with a-mount makes a lot of sense. If I were to buy zooms for an ASPC A-mount body, I would begin with the excellent 16-50 2.8 SSM. I have seen this lens used in the mid-$300 range. Is this a better combo than, say, a D5300/Sigma 18-35 1.8? Tough to say, but it seems like they are in the same neighborhood if you discount Eye AF.

If you want continuous Eye AF, it seems like it makes sense for you to jump to the a6300 or a7ii. The a7ii is going for $877 used in 9/10 condition at B&H (it will look new at first blush), and the a6300 is going for $735 from the same seller in the same condition. Want a kit lens for your a6300, pay another $115 for that combo.

The a7ii offers IBIS and FF goodness to go along with that gen2 EYE AF. To me, this makes a ton of sense if you want to shoot with fast primes like good and affordable FE50 1.8 ($200 new) and FE 85 1.8 ($550 new). The FE 28/2 ($400 new)is a fantastic choice if you want to go wider.

Want to go cheaper on the glass? Sigma and Sony both made some decent crop primes to slap on the a6300. Stabilization on small primes isn't usually necessary in my experience.

It just doesn't make sense to me to buy the old tech in the a-mount crop bodies going forward, although it certainly is good enough to get the job done. But is it the best buy?

I, obviously.. have been meditating on the selection and am also looking at the a7. Since the a7ii doesnt do Eye AF in AF-C, I could settle for an a7 and focus on glass.

I am reading over and over... over heating issues with the 6300 and 6500, I dont want my camera to have to cool off while doing a shoot. 4k would be nice, but honestly I dont think my computer would handle it anyway.

I keep coming back to the A mount system, though it may be "long in the tooth", there is plenty of affordable MAXXUM glass to be had, I can setup and build on my kit for not much money, get into the Sony line and get the features I need even with the a68 or a77ii.

Of the features that are prime for me, high speed sync & focus peaking/mag.

The features that are butter on the toast: 4D focus, 79 focus spots, Eye AF (Even if it is on AF-S)

If I get the itch for FF I can save up my milk money for an a99 or a99ii.


Ive got plenty to research. Much I still dont know.

Does the a77ii shoot 12 fps with focus between the shots, or does it focus on first shot and keep that? If it doesnt focus on each shot, the 12fps is IMHO worthless. The 5 fps (true fps) of the a68 is.. fast enough.

I *should* be able to shoot the style that I want with the A mount bodies and can afford to have a fat lens back to pull from.

I continue to monitor for further advice. You guys have been awesome.

Its kind of scary to switch from a know system to something totally different.

Thanks!
Andrew

Does the SLT mirror, in your honest opinion, "muddy" the image any when compared to DSLR or mirrorless image with similar sensor?

From what I am seeing they look clean and crisp but I have not shot SLT before.

Thx,
Andrew

IMO it does not muddy the image. At ISO 100 the files from an a6000 and A77ii are identical to my eye in every way in a RAW file. I have never shot anything but RAW with the DSLT or mirrorless bodies.

I have pulled shadows off subjects to reveal outstanding detail using DSLT bodies, so muddy is definitely not a word I associate with them.

The a77ii thread hasn't been active in quite some time, but Medicine Man 4040 and I posted quite a bit of info and pics on there over a two-year period. If you go through the thread index you'll find it.

As far as the a99ii goes, it offers superior IQ and AF to the a77ii, and the price on used copies keeps falling. Physically, it is the same as the a77ii and it has the same so-so joystick. Less blackout, better IBIS. For pure IQ, my a7r was better but the lack of IBIS and slow AF made it a far more difficult to camera to run and gun with.

Have you checked out the sale at Borrow Lenses yet? They had used a-mount and F-mount gear for real cheap. I was tempted, but I'm on spending lock down right now. With the discount, they had an a68 for under $200.

So, I have a Godox Pro flash controller for Sony (new) and bought a used MAXXUM lens off ebay.

My current plan is: a68 -> a77ii -> a99ii
I project it may take 2 years or more to reach my goal, but Ill have a fine collection of bodies and lens at the end.

Ill keep you updated, I hope to have the 68 within 60 days.

Thanks for everyone's valued input!

Andrew

Due to budget constraints at this time, I purchased an a65 off ebay with 18-55 Sony glass.

I have a Minolta MAXXUM Japan 35-70 f4 that I got off ebay for $21 to play with,
and I also got a 1.7x Promaster Spectrum teleconverter for $35, and just won the
auction for a MAXXUM 50mm f1.7which is also Japan glass!

I also got the Sony MI hotshot to Canikon hotshot adapter for $20.

I also got a wired remote for longer duration for $10, Ill get one with
the intervolometer later.

Ive got enough kit at this point, once it all arrives.. to get into the Sony A mount
family and get playing with the brand. I dont think Ill be disappointed.

Once I purchase an a68, Ill have the a65 still, I can give that to the wife to
take behind the scenes pictures when Im on a photoshoot... shes using
a Lumix G3 right now.. but the pictures are soft and its really kinda hard
to hold onto (too small IMHO).

I still plan on an a77II, and hope to graduate to an a99II at some point.

Ill follow up once it comes, should be tomorrow.

Cant wait to have HSS and focus peaking, those two features alone
will displace my Nikon D5300 right away!

Oh, I also have some reverse/flipped lens adapters coming for
macro, but they are from the far East and may take another week
or two before they show up.

Cheers,
Andrew

I've considered picking up an a65 in the past as well, as it offers much of what the a77 does. I wish you the best of luck with it!

Minolta glass is an excellent value for sure, and I know you'll put it to good use!

Okay, got the a65, and not such a good experience.

With the Sony glass on it, it showed no error.. After mounting the Minolta glass it came up with IBIS error on screen that would not go away.
Put the Sony glass on it and same, error would not go away. I dont *think* the Minolta (MAXXUM) glass "killed" it, I think there is a problem
with the IBIS.

Second, I had already gotten a Sony to Canikon hotshoe adapter, but its the MI type and the 65 uses the old school Minolta
style hotshoe. I didnt get to test that part out. Not so sure the adapter would work with the Godax trigger and I would have
lost all HSS, Im pretty sure.

Third, IQ was not up to snuff.. My D50 and D40 has way better image quality. I *think* this may be due to the fact
that Sony still uses AA on the sensor, and also the Expeed engine may be doing things 'differently' than the Bionz engine.

Forth, the focus peaking did not behave as I anticipated, it gives peaking on HIGH contrast areas while other areas are
left alone. I have never used focus peaking before so I had no idea what to expect. To me, it was kind of a let down.
I am not saying its a Sony fail, not at all.. but rather it doesnt execute the way I envisioned before trying it. My bad.

Last, noise at ISO 200 was not so "good", at 1600 the image was starting to look like junk. My D5300 can shoot at 6400 with such
little noise that its almost a mute point. I was hoping to shoot at at least 1600 or 3200 with "similar" results.

All this made the 65 a fail for my applications. I sent it back today to get a refund (minus shipping of course).

I am thinking with all I have invested in glass and accessories already, to pitch that money toward a D7500.
I would be better benefited by 1/8000 and HSS with minimal spending rather than try to change systems all
together.

Talking points: I really did like the flip/twist screen, and it looked good. EVF was awesome. Either way, it was
VERY neat previewing the exposure BEFORE taking the picture.. that was fun. I might could have lived without
the IBIS, but if its prone to failure Id be better off not having it. This camera was BIG, about the size of my D50,
and I actually kind of liked that.

Im kind of put off a bit, this comes from trial and error, I know.. however with the lackluster performance
in IQ and ISO noise, Im a little afraid to entertain something like an A6300, or possibly an A7II.. just skipping
the Alpha Body all together. But then Im back to the same predicament, zero glass for the E mount so it would
all have to be bought... and thats gonna be $PENDY for me! Ive got a really sweet DX 35mm f1.8 that I bought
new for $200.. similar in E mount will be $450. Thats a hard pill to swallow for someone that is making not
much money for photo shoots.

The noise and IQ of my 5300 is IMHO "perfect" for everything I want to do.. the #1 biggest shortfall is
no HSS. I could get a D7500 and a Sigma 100-600 Contemporary to add to the collection and still be
spending less than transitioning to Sony.

I think I am not ready to make the swap, but did give it a half hearted attempt anyway.

You folks have been great, and I thank you for going on the ride with me while I toss ideas around
and try to figure all this out. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!

Have I given up on Sony? Not entirely.. I just think the timing is off and the banker wont flip
for the full commitment at this time.

I know it may be unfair to judge something like an a77II off the experience of at a65 (IQ & noise), but
Im kinda scared to plop out that kind of money to find out... the a77II is not much better and still
falls behind my 5300.

Now, if I win the Mega Lottery.. an a7III with full lens kit may be in short order! HA HA!

Thanks agn,
Andrew

ShutterKlick wrote in post #18601452
Okay, got the a65, and not such a good experience.

With the Sony glass on it, it showed no error.. After mounting the Minolta glass it came up with IBIS error on screen that would not go away.
Put the Sony glass on it and same, error would not go away. I dont *think* the Minolta (MAXXUM) glass "killed" it, I think there is a problem
with the IBIS.

Second, I had already gotten a Sony to Canikon hotshoe adapter, but its the MI type and the 65 uses the old school Minolta
style hotshoe. I didnt get to test that part out. Not so sure the adapter would work with the Godax trigger and I would have
lost all HSS, Im pretty sure.

Third, IQ was not up to snuff.. My D50 and D40 has way better image quality. I *think* this may be due to the fact
that Sony still uses AA on the sensor, and also the Expeed engine may be doing things 'differently' than the Bionz engine.

Forth, the focus peaking did not behave as I anticipated, it gives peaking on HIGH contrast areas while other areas are
left alone. I have never used focus peaking before so I had no idea what to expect. To me, it was kind of a let down.
I am not saying its a Sony fail, not at all.. but rather it doesnt execute the way I envisioned before trying it. My bad.

Last, noise at ISO 200 was not so "good", at 1600 the image was starting to look like junk. My D5300 can shoot at 6400 with such
little noise that its almost a mute point. I was hoping to shoot at at least 1600 or 3200 with "similar" results.

All this made the 65 a fail for my applications. I sent it back today to get a refund (minus shipping of course).

I am thinking with all I have invested in glass and accessories already, to pitch that money toward a D7500.
I would be better benefited by 1/8000 and HSS with minimal spending rather than try to change systems all
together.

Talking points: I really did like the flip/twist screen, and it looked good. EVF was awesome. Either way, it was
VERY neat previewing the exposure BEFORE taking the picture.. that was fun. I might could have lived without
the IBIS, but if its prone to failure Id be better off not having it. This camera was BIG, about the size of my D50,
and I actually kind of liked that.

Im kind of put off a bit, this comes from trial and error, I know.. however with the lackluster performance
in IQ and ISO noise, Im a little afraid to entertain something like an A6300, or possibly an A7II.. just skipping
the Alpha Body all together. But then Im back to the same predicament, zero glass for the E mount so it would
all have to be bought... and thats gonna be $PENDY for me! Ive got a really sweet DX 35mm f1.8 that I bought
new for $200.. similar in E mount will be $450. Thats a hard pill to swallow for someone that is making not
much money for photo shoots.

The noise and IQ of my 5300 is IMHO "perfect" for everything I want to do.. the #1 biggest shortfall is
no HSS. I could get a D7500 and a Sigma 100-600 Contemporary to add to the collection and still be
spending less than transitioning to Sony.

I think I am not ready to make the swap, but did give it a half hearted attempt anyway.

You folks have been great, and I thank you for going on the ride with me while I toss ideas around
and try to figure all this out. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!

Have I given up on Sony? Not entirely.. I just think the timing is off and the banker wont flip
for the full commitment at this time.

I know it may be unfair to judge something like an a77II off the experience of at a65 (IQ & noise), but
Im kinda scared to plop out that kind of money to find out... the a77II is not much better and still
falls behind my 5300.

Now, if I win the Mega Lottery.. an a7III with full lens kit may be in short order! HA HA!

Thanks agn,
Andrew

Lots to unpack here, but I'm going to give it a shot.

First and foremost, if your A65 was giving you the steadyshot error it needs to go. It is part of the reason why we by a-mount cameras, and it is an expensive repair. It is good you sent this camera back to the seller on this alone. I received an a77ii refurb from a seller I had bought from before, and I sent it back. The seller, to my shock, sent me back a replacement a77ii which I believed to be a new body without the box. I got lucky, but sending back the body was vital.

On adapting other flashes to the old flash mount it is not something I ever messed with. I always used current tech Sony flashes, although I do have a Pixel King triggers which work great.

I only shoot RAW, but shooting anything higher than ISO 800 on my a77 (same sensor as your a65) was something I tried to avoid if possible. Aside from being seven-year-old tech, the translucent mirror's light penalty had a higher impact on my a77 than it did by a77ii and certainly my a99ii (no comparison, really). My 60D was much better in low light than the a77, although at ISO 100 the a77 smokes it. At ISO 200, if you aren't shooting RAW and aren't using a quality noise application like DXO Optics Prime, it is possible you could see a drop off from your Nikon. I felt my a77 was about the same at higher ISO as my old D40, which I shot extensively in dismally lit cathedrals throughout Rome in 2010.

Perhaps I didn't state this clear enough, or maybe at all, but your D5300 is a quality body for IQ. Switching to an older body like the a65, which is older and handicapped by the translucent mirror, you must expect a pronounced falloff when you climb the ISO ladder. My a77 offered better-to-much-better AF than my 60D and certainly my D40, but I don't know how the a65 would fare.

A D7500--or even a used D7200--would be a really nice upgrade for you. The a77ii, at this point, is too much money for four-year-old tech. But that's another ball of wax. I think you would be wise to stick to Nikon crop bodies if you don't want to switch to e-mount, which I am pretty partial to as far as crop bodies go.


As far as pricing goes, I go back and forth as to if it is worth it for me to switch back to e-mount all the time. I miss the small footprint, as I used to carry my a6000 and a7r everywhere with me. Not so with the a99ii. There are values out there on e-mount glass, but you have to be willing to buy used primes to get there. I have no problem doing that, but some hate doing it.

After shooting the a99ii, I would have to go to a gen3 e-mount body whether it be a7riii or a7iii. I would gladly buy another a6000 even though it lacks IBIS because it is that useful to me. You can pick up one with a kit lens under $400 with searching, lightly used or open box.

I do believe I said that the a77ii wouldn't offer an IQ upgrade over the D5300 way back in the thread, but I will stand by saying that it is a better all-around camera for sure. The AF and IBIS, even with the so-so joystick, make it so.

Mickey, agn you prove to be a true gentleman and a true artist in photography, willing to read and give insight, I value your time sir.

On a more positive side, I did go and download raw images from the 6300 here:

http://www.photography​blog.com …300_review/samp​le_images/

And compared the higher ISO noise of the A6300 with my D5300.

The conclusion I make, with the human eye.. Very very similar overall quality and noise.

I have located an A6300 with short tele and long tele for right at $1,200. The only thing really
I am missing is a 35mm f1.7, which I trust I can find. Then I would "mostly" have the basic
kit I need for my type of photography.

So moving forward, my wish list would include-
- Grip for the 6300, to extend batter and possibly minimize/eliminate the possibility of over heat
This would also give it a "nicer" form factor for my use.
- A good ?? - 300mm lens, I prefer that often times to the 200mm
- Sigma or Tamron 100-600 (or there abouts..) tele for WL and BIF, Sports, etc.
- Nikon F to Sony E adapter, so I can affix my 8mm fisheye lens, its full manual anyway, no need for expensive adapter
- I still want a 50 f1.8 to get ~85mm eq. for portraits, etc..


I am presuming, any E mount lens I get for the A6300 would also function as designed on the A7/7II/7III,
am I correct?

BTW, I ran Topaz noise filter on a 6400ISO raw from the A6300 and wow, the image is so clean and details
were hardly effected!


Okay, so maybe Im back in the Sony market.. the 6300 has *all* the features I want, I can get the kit for
not a lot of money including 2 lens for 60% of what I do and can build on it leaning on the used market.

a6000 - not near as many features as the 6300
a6500 - not sure I want the IBIS and extra features
a6300 - appears to be EXACTLY what I want/need


Would KEH be a good place to get the used lens? Ive been browsing there list for a few months anyway.

Is there anyone else you trust to buy used E mount lens from?

Kind regards,
Andrew