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Thread started 06 Jun 2018 (Wednesday) 10:20
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New Version - NIK Collection 2018 from DXO

 
Hogloff
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Jun 08, 2018 20:49 |  #31
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mwsilver wrote in post #18641705 (external link)
Except they now provide support for previously unsupported software. And while the bug fixes may not have benefited you, a number of users have reported issues running the old Google version on the latest iOS and Windows 64 bit operating systems.

Right...and bugs are defects that one should not have to pay for to get addressed. Sure include the bug fixes into a release with some features...but to charge to fix defects in the product is not something i’ll support.

This is coming from managing software / hardware products for 35 years...bugs are defects that affect customers and should be fixed for free and include an apology for causing pain to the customer...not standing their with your hands out asking for $49 to fix up their own internal issues.




  
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mwsilver
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Post edited 9 months ago by mwsilver. (4 edits in all)
     
Jun 08, 2018 22:12 |  #32

Hogloff wrote in post #18641764 (external link)
Right...and bugs are defects that one should not have to pay for to get addressed. Sure include the bug fixes into a release with some features...but to charge to fix defects in the product is not something i’ll support.

This is coming from managing software / hardware products for 35 years...bugs are defects that affect customers and should be fixed for free and include an apology for causing pain to the customer...not standing their with your hands out asking for $49 to fix up their own internal issues.

But they did not cause the bugs. They purchased very old unupgraded software with the intention of turning it into something better. By fixing things that were broken because the previous owners never did anything, they've already updated it for some users. Why in the world would they have to apologize for the pain they've caused when they never caused any pain. They're the solution not the problem.

Before they could update it they had to first make it stable. They could have waited 6 months longer before releasing it until they had meaningful enhancements, but then nobody would have been able to purchase it for the next 6 months unless you were expecting them to give it away for free after they spent several months fixing the bugs they inherited when they bought it. There is an inherent cost to software development. They now own the software and they're not giving it away and I can't blame them. For those who would like to own the Nik collection and haven't done so before now here's an opportunity to get a stable version at an extremely reasonable price. For those who are happy with the stability of what they currently have, it probably makes sense for them to wait until some future version with desirable enhancements.

By the way I too just retired from being a software development manager for the last 35 years, and I do not have any problem with their approach.


Mark
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Hogloff
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Jun 09, 2018 09:31 |  #33
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mwsilver wrote in post #18641809 (external link)
But they did not cause the bugs. They purchased very old unupgraded software with the intention of turning it into something better. By fixing things that were broken because the previous owners never did anything, they've already updated it for some users. Why in the world would they have to apologize for the pain they've caused when they never caused any pain. They're the solution not the problem.

Before they could update it they had to first make it stable. They could have waited 6 months longer before releasing it until they had meaningful enhancements, but then nobody would have been able to purchase it for the next 6 months unless you were expecting them to give it away for free after they spent several months fixing the bugs they inherited when they bought it. There is an inherent cost to software development. They now own the software and they're not giving it away and I can't blame them. For those who would like to own the Nik collection and haven't done so before now here's an opportunity to get a stable version at an extremely reasonable price. For those who are happy with the stability of what they currently have, it probably makes sense for them to wait until some future version with desirable enhancements.

By the way I too just retired from being a software development manager for the last 35 years, and I do not have any problem with their approach.

Yeh, they inherited the bugs...but they also inherited the great functionality...so I don’t buy the notion that the bugs were not created by them...it’s still their issue, not the consumers.

Persinally I would have released a stability version for free to show good will to Nik’s loyal customers and then focus on a release adding new features.

Could you imagine the screaming we would get if Adobe decided to release LR with a couple bug fixes and ask for $49 for it.




  
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gjl711
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Jun 09, 2018 09:57 |  #34

Hogloff wrote in post #18642000 (external link)
...Could you imagine the screaming we would get if Adobe decided to release LR with a couple bug fixes and ask for $49 for it.

Um.. Isn't that what they are pretty much doing? Release a few bug fixes and charge you $10 a month.


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Hogloff
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Jun 09, 2018 10:03 |  #35
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gjl711 wrote in post #18642008 (external link)
Um.. Isn't that what they are pretty much doing? Release a few bug fixes and charge you $10 a month.

Ummm, no. Features have constantly been released. Between LR & PS there has been a steady stream of new features...and in fact a new product for tight integration with your mobile devices using cloud storage for your images.

Nothing like DXO asking $49 to fix bugs.




  
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mwsilver
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Post edited 9 months ago by mwsilver. (37 edits in all)
     
Jun 09, 2018 10:46 |  #36

Hogloff wrote in post #18642000 (external link)
Yeh, they inherited the bugs...but they also inherited the great functionality...so I don’t buy the notion that the bugs were not created by them...it’s still their issue, not the consumers.

Persinally I would have released a stability version for free to show good will to Nik’s loyal customers and then focus on a release adding new features.

Could you imagine the screaming we would get if Adobe decided to release LR with a couple bug fixes and ask for $49 for it.

If Adobe went out of business and LR became available for free and languished for several years without support until someone picked it up, fixed all the ensuing bugs as operating systems matured, and only charged $50 for it, I wonder whether there would be as many complaints as I've been seeing posted about the NIK Collection. I think most people would just be grateful it was being supported again with the expectation of future updates.

As I've suggested here and on other sites. if you already have an earlier copy of the NIk Collection, free or licensed, that's stable on your computer then hold off until their next release, but there is no need for negativity nor criticism of DXO Labs. The fact that DXO is now supporting the NIK Collection and have initially fixed some bugs and performance issues is a good thing, and a $50 price tag for new users is entirely reasonable. I can add to that my impression, based on playing with the new DXO version, that it seems to load files exported to it somewhat faster then the previous version, but I have no statistics to back that up.

And with regard to your anecdotal example about Adobe and LR, I can imagine that scenario because it happened! The paucity of enhancements between LR 5.7 and LR 6 standalone, for which I paid the $80 or so upgrade price, was very disappointing. LR 6 didn't seem to be much more than a bug fix, support of a few new cameras, and HDR and panarama functionality. I personally got no additional benefit out of Lightroom 6. And many people might recall that there were a number of slow performance issues reported when Lightroom 6 was released, and it was also a debacle when they temporarily changed the import functionality. So using Adobe as an example is probably not a good idea. However I wanted to have the then current LR 6 upgrade in anticipation of LR 7 standalone, which of course never materialized. Do you also believe that Adobe should have given us Lightroom 6 for free or at least at a much reduced upgrade price as a result of the significant lack of new functionality?

By the way, I now use DXO Photolab Elite instead of Lightroom for a variety of reasons unrelated to this topic. I am looking forward to future versions of the NIK Collection being fully integrated into Photolab and being able to provide modifications directly to Raw files, similarly to DXO's Filmpack product.


Mark
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DagoImaging
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Jun 09, 2018 17:01 |  #37

I work in software development and I completely understand them charging for it. They bought a defunct software, upgraded it and re-released it as improved. They have to recoup development cost as well as purchase cost. This is normal in any business.


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kirkt
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Post edited 9 months ago by kirkt.
     
Jun 09, 2018 17:07 as a reply to  @ DagoImaging's post |  #38

The solution is simple: use the free version. No one is making you pay a dime to continue using it. If you have no intention of paying for a supported version then don't worry about it - why is it so irksome that the now-supported version costs money, like all other commercial software? It should not affect you in the least. Some folks who have used the Nik Suite for free want it to continue to be free - it can and will always be free, so long as you continue to use the Google version, which Google abandoned.

What DxO is doing appears to be releasing a stable version for modern OSes that sets the stage for future enhancements and developments - investing the time and effort in modernizing a set of tools for which they see a demand. So, you are paying a modest fee to get in on the ground floor, so to speak, of the reincarnation of the Nik Suite. I can imagine that DxO will ultimately develop an integrated image editing environment where the entire workflow from raw conversion to editing to effects and grading are seamlessly accessible with their applications, much like OnOne Photo Raw. And speaking of OnOne...

What DxO is charging to reintroduce the Nik Suite is in distinction to OnOne and their PhotoRaw platform, which made folks pay to be their beta testers and them made them pay again for the 2018 version of their similarly-bloated "Lightroom killer." To me, their fee structure was unacceptable (especially considering the still-unfinished state of their application) which is why I did not pay to "upgrade" to OneOn PhotoRaw 2018 and decided to abandon their product (not that I used it extensively, but if it continued to show promise, I would continue to consider it as part of my toolset). So, vote with your wallet. If it is not worth to you to pay for the now-supported version of the Nik Suite, don't!

kirk


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mwsilver
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Post edited 9 months ago by mwsilver.
     
Jun 09, 2018 17:12 |  #39

kirkt wrote in post #18642175 (external link)
The solution is simple: use the free version. No one is making you pay a dime to continue using it. If you have no intention of paying for a supported version then don't worry about it - why is it so irksome that the now-supported version costs money, like all other commercial software? It should not affect you in the least. Some folks who have used the Nik Suite for free want it to continue to be free - it can and will always be free, so long as you continue to use the Google version, which Google abandoned.

What DxO is doing appears to be releasing a stable version for modern OSes that sets the stage for future enhancements and developments - investing the time and effort in modernizing a set of tools for which they see a demand. So, you are paying a modest fee to get in on the ground floor, so to speak, of the reincarnation of the Nik Suite. I can imagine that DxO will ultimately develop an integrated image editing environment where the entire workflow from raw conversion to editing to effects and grading are seamlessly accessible with their applications, much like OnOne Photo Raw. And speaking of OnOne...

What DxO is charging to reintroduce the Nik Suite is in distinction to OnOne and their PhotoRaw platform, which made folks pay to be their beta testers and them made them pay again for the 2018 version of their similarly-bloated "Lightroom killer." To me, their fee structure was unacceptable (especially considering the still-unfinished state of their application) which is why I did not pay to "upgrade" to OneOn PhotoRaw 2018 and decided to abandon their product (not that I used it extensively, but if it continued to show promise, I would continue to consider it as part of my toolset). So, vote with your wallet. If it is not worth to you to pay for the now-supported version of the Nik Suite, don't!

kirk

Completely agree!


Mark
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kirkt
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Jun 09, 2018 17:14 |  #40

Hogloff wrote in post #18641764 (external link)
...

This is coming from managing software / hardware products for 35 years...bugs are defects that affect customers and should be fixed for free and include an apology for causing pain to the customer...not standing their with your hands out asking for $49 to fix up their own internal issues.

Ha! Lightroom users have gotten "apologies" for the last several POS "updates" and "bug fixes" that introduced new regressions, but Adobe was still standing there with their hands out demanding that users pay their monthly fee. What we learned from Adobe is that lip service is free, but updates and bug fixes are not.

kirk


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Jun 11, 2018 19:57 |  #41

Hogloff wrote in post #18642010 (external link)
Ummm, no. Features have constantly been released. Between LR & PS there has been a steady stream of new features...and in fact a new product for tight integration with your mobile devices using cloud storage for your images.

Nothing like DXO asking $49 to fix bugs.

I have both the Adobe plan and DXO. Long time Adobe user and there have been several upgrades since Oct. Sensei was very good. I got DXO after they announced their financial situation because Prime is that good. I did not see any big improvements with the update last week and I'm not getting NIK. Free downloads from both Google and NIK just crashed. I don't need it enough to spend $50.


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Jun 11, 2018 20:18 |  #42

FWIW, I am using Google NIK with Affinity Photo on Windows 7 with zero issues.

That is all,
Andrew


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mwsilver
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Jun 11, 2018 22:40 |  #43

ShutterKlick wrote in post #18643564 (external link)
FWIW, I am using Google NIK with Affinity Photo on Windows 7 with zero issues.

That is all,
Andrew

That's an old operating system for which NIK was designed, so no surprise there. Some occasional compatibility glitches have been reported on newer Windows and primarily newer Mac operating systems. DXO claims to have fixed those bugs, made a few minor performance enhancements, and recompiled all the code for the first time in years. Making the system stable for all users is the first step any software development team takes after acquiring an old unsupported system.


Mark
Canon 7D2, 60D, T3i, T2i, Sigma 18-35 f/1.8, 30 f/1.4. Canon EF 70-200 L f/4 IS, EF 35 f/2 IS, EFs 10-18 STM, EFs 15-85, EFs 18-200, EF 50 f/1.8 STM, Tamron 18-270 PZD, B+W MRC CPL, Canon 320EX, Vanguard Alta Pro 254CT & SBH 250 head. RODE Stereo Videomic Pro, DXO PhotoLab, Elements 15

  
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agedbriar
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Jun 12, 2018 01:57 |  #44

I have no issues with Google Nik hosted by PhotoLine, running Windows 10.




  
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JoseCanseco
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Jun 28, 2018 15:12 |  #45

One thing I’m curious about is if this will include free updates. Does DxO typically charge for upgrades on their other programs? Google was always kind enough to include updates and new features at no extra cost. (ie. When I originally bought the pack, AnalogFX wasn’t part of the bundle, but was included as a free update)


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