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Thread started 06 Jul 2018 (Friday) 17:35
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70D upgrade

 
awacsCZE
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Jul 06, 2018 17:35 |  #1

Hello guys,

I want to ask for your help. I have 70D and yet as I managed to get good results from the camera, I'm still not really impressed with noise performance and AF reliability. I have a lot of pictures off focus, soft and not satisfying to me. I have few L lenses (70-200 f/4, 100-400 II, 24-70 f/4) and to me it seems, that 70D works well only with 70-200, other ones are a bit soft and not satisfying.

So I decided to go away from 70D and want to upgrade to a newer camera. My question is which one?

I shoot moving subjects, like airshows, planes in general and occasionally Formula 1 events. I find 70D burst mode more than enough in terms of speed, just don't like the accuracy of it, especially on AI Servo mode. Also, the image quality is huge matter to me and 70D hasn't the best one - lack of details in trees, etc.

So I would love to have some camera with more reliable AF and better IQ with lower noise. I found out, that it's not really easy to get one with this in Canon region without selling a kidney (which I have only one now as I bought 100-400 II).

I really like the output from 6D mark II, but I'm affraid, that it's AF won't be as precise and reliable as others say. Also, less reach with FF camery. Second candidate is 7D Mark II as it has really, really great AF system, but, the IQ is really near of 70D and I guess, there is no upgrade that way. It's as old as 70D and I also kinda grew in liking the articulating screen.

5D Mark IV is off my limits and 80D seems to me like 6D MkII with worse IQ. 6D MkII is probably the highest I can go with finances.

So I'm kinda confused which one to go.

Could you please help me?

Thank you very much.




  
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shocolite
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Jul 06, 2018 18:33 |  #2

I had a 6D, traded it for a 80D, with the long term view to replacing my FF and keeping the 80D. I have been using my 70-200 F4 on the 80D and happy with the results but haven't had time to properly try my 100-400ii on the 80D.

So regarding my FF dilemma, I have read a lot of articles/feedback about the 6dii focus system. Its AF system is reported to be excellent and would work really well with the 100-400II even with 1.4iii extender. I think what upset a lot of people was the close clustering of the 45 AF points that seems rather "tight" in the way they are spread compared to the 80D. But the 6d only had one cross type at the center, the 6Dii has 45 cross-type and the outer AF points (from what I have read) are now really good for focusing, whereas the outer focus points on the 6D were hit and miss. I used the center focus point nearly all the time, even when photographing sports/horse-riding.

In the image I have inserted below, the red focus points are of the 5DIV and the black are of the 6Dii, so even on the 5DIV, the spread of AF points is still quite tight, compared to the 80D.

I am somewhat lucky in that I "could" buy a 5Div but I can't justify the price for my photography needs. The other huge gripe of the 6Dii was that its Dynamic Range was not much better than the 6D, but I guess Canon did not want it to impinge too much on 5Div sales.

Also, the 6Dii FPS has increased from something like 4fps to 6.5 on the 6Dii (the 5DIV is rated as 7 fps). A huge improvement IMO.

As it so happens, I decided a few days ago to buy a 6Dii - the dynamic range "issue" is not of concern to me and I do miss not having a full frame camera. I am waiting for a deal to come along then I will put my order in!

I reckon you would have a great camera combination with the 70D and 6Dii. I will probably have others shoot me down on this comment but each to their own! And I would agree with you regarding your views on the 7dmkii - I have similar sentiments.

Good luck! Philip


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Canon 80D, 700D & G7 X; EF-S 10-18/18-135 STM, EF-S 18-135 IS USM, 50 F1.4, 100 F2.8L Macro, 16-35 F4L, 70-200 F4L IS; 100-400 L II, Speedlite 430EX II

  
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ct1co2
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Post edited 8 months ago by ct1co2.
     
Jul 07, 2018 08:26 |  #3

I was a happy 70D owner up until last Sept. It was the first DSLR that I was truly happy with and I have many printed images from that body. I moved to the 7DII for the superior focus system and the higher FPS as I shoot a lot of BIF during the winter. I then added a 6DII this spring.

I found the 7DII focus to be a big step up vs the 70D. Aside from the obvious with the number of focus points, it being so configurable was very handy. If I was doing my part keeping the point(s) on target, it will do its part keeping the target in focus. Changing focus modes is easier. I’ve not noticed a significant difference in IQ vs the 70D, save for maybe slightly better higher ISO output. Keep in mind that’s purely anecdotal as I’ve not attempted any direct comparisons. I really really missed the flip/touch screen of the 70D. I recently took the 7DII on vacation (leavingthe 6DII at home), and the lack of flip screen left me questioing the decision a week into the trip. I also found I missed the WiFi more than I thought I would.

I bought the 6DII on an impulse. I wanted a 2nd body, something that would be a lighter travel, landscape, and portrait solution. I knew full well going in about the review, but I chose it over an 80D due to full frame lust. I played around using it for my intended purpose as well as some wildlife. To no surprise, my primes shine on it whereas I like them less on a crop body. I did not expect a big IQ difference, but shooting some wildlife, including owls after sunset is where I was surprised. Output was really good, even when cropped (although I did not upsize back to equivalent crop sizing) and the higher ISO is impressive (to me), much better than the 70D/7DII. The flip and touch screen is great to have again, and I’ve used the WiFi function. Yes the focus points are more clustered, but it’s not hindered me for how I shoot, which is generally towards the middle anyway. The Servo focus has been a pleasant surprise. I was getting some buyers remorse having so many $’s tied up in a 2nd body but decided to keep it as I am happy with it for what it is.

I found both are something of a compromise. If something happened today where I was forced to go with 1 body only, I’d probably sell both and get an 80D as it would be the middle ground having the crop factor reach I need, good AF, and good IQ.


7D2 | 6D2 | 10-22 | 15-85is | Rokinon 14 2.8 | 16-35isL | 24-70isL | 35is | 85 1.8 | 100-400 II L | Σ150-600 C | 430ex |

  
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awacsCZE
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Jul 07, 2018 17:00 as a reply to  @ shocolite's post |  #4

Thank you.

I've used outermost focus points of 70D few times, wonder how 6D mkII focus point are place in compare to 70D. Everyone compares it with 80D, but 70D is what I'm interested in :) Do you have similar picture for 6D2 and 70D?
I've learned to live with dynamic range of 70D and I think all issues from that comes with me not being able to post process correctly :D

What is crucial to me is the AF system and IQ. I was at F1 last weekend and had almost all photos from 70D blurry, not because of motion, but from bad AF with AI Servo mode. So I want something with better AF and IQ than 70D has.




  
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awacsCZE
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Jul 07, 2018 17:14 as a reply to  @ ct1co2's post |  #5

How would you compare 6DmkII and 7DmkII Servo autofocus? Is it similar, or one is better?

For me, the layout of 70D focus points is enough, so if it will be same with 6DmkII, I'm ok with that.

So IQ is better iwth 6DmkII?




  
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Archibald
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Jul 07, 2018 17:16 |  #6

The 70D should produce excellent photos. If it doesn't, maybe there is something wrong with your gear, or with your technique. You should try to find out which - a gear defect or user issues.

Are all the photos disappointing or just some of them?

Have you done micro focus adjustment for all your lenses on the 70D?

Have you tried a tripod to eliminate camera movement? Have you tried live view and compared it to AF through the viewfinder?

Are you finding focus and noise issues even when there is good light?

Before jumping to another body, consider renting or borrowing another body to see if it produces better results than your 70D.


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Jul 07, 2018 19:36 |  #7

Archibald wrote in post #18658114 (external link)
The 70D should produce excellent photos. If it doesn't, maybe there is something wrong with your gear, or with your technique. You should try to find out which - a gear defect or user issues.

Are all the photos disappointing or just some of them?

Have you done micro focus adjustment for all your lenses on the 70D?

Have you tried a tripod to eliminate camera movement? Have you tried live view and compared it to AF through the viewfinder?

Are you finding focus and noise issues even when there is good light?

Before jumping to another body, consider renting or borrowing another body to see if it produces better results than your 70D.

I agree. I get great results with even older equipment.


_______________
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Equipment: Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 40mm 2.8, Tamron 17-50 2.8 XR Di, Canon 18-55mm, Canon 50mm 1.8, Tamron 70-300VC / T3I and 60D

  
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mcoren
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Jul 07, 2018 20:50 |  #8

I have to agree with Archibald. There are likely other reasons why your photos are unsatisfactory than anything inherent with the 70D.

From what I read on PoTN, the 80D sounds like a great camera, but it's only an incremental upgrade from the 70D (IMO).

I had a 70D for about three years, and I loved it. It gave me a lot of great images, and I only sold it earlier this year because I got a sweet deal on a virtually new 7Dii. What appealed to me about the 7Dii was the more advanced AF system, because I like to shoot at airshows (which aren't nearly as challenging to the AF system as BIF or some sports).

I do occasionally miss the 70D's articulated screen. I often found it useful to put the camera in live view, tilt the screen down, and hold it at arms length over my head to shoot over crowds. I can kind of do that with the 7Dii, but I have to hold it more forward so I can still see the screen, and it's harder to do in bright sunlight.

Mike


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ocorral20
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Jul 07, 2018 21:56 |  #9

i love my 70d but want to upgrade to mark iV




  
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awacsCZE
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Jul 08, 2018 04:31 |  #10

Archibald wrote in post #18658114 (external link)
The 70D should produce excellent photos. If it doesn't, maybe there is something wrong with your gear, or with your technique. You should try to find out which - a gear defect or user issues.

Are all the photos disappointing or just some of them?

Have you done micro focus adjustment for all your lenses on the 70D?

Have you tried a tripod to eliminate camera movement? Have you tried live view and compared it to AF through the viewfinder?

Are you finding focus and noise issues even when there is good light?

Before jumping to another body, consider renting or borrowing another body to see if it produces better results than your 70D.

I tried to catch all the errors up.

It's only some photos, mainly in servo mode. I had 24-70 f/4 L and 24-105 f/4L and returned them both, because they were incredibly soft (24-70 on 70mm and 24-105 around 50mm). I MFA them a lot, but nothing helped, the couldn't focus on spot and focused once before, once behind with same MFA setting. 24-70 even jumped the focus behind after manual focus.

Yes, the focus problems and noise is visible in day too, noise less, but it's more noticeable.

This is what I'm talking about - shot with 100-400 L II

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awacsCZE
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Jul 08, 2018 04:32 |  #11

Frodge wrote in post #18658187 (external link)
I agree. I get great results with even older equipment.

I do get great images too, but it's terribly inconsistent.




  
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awacsCZE
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Jul 08, 2018 04:48 as a reply to  @ mcoren's post |  #12

I don't know about the 7D2. It has much better AF system, but everything else seems same, or worse, than with 70D. Don't know, if 7D can be called upgrade. Same for the 80D. I don't want to have 2 same cameras .




  
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awacsCZE
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Jul 08, 2018 04:48 |  #13

ocorral20 wrote in post #18658265 (external link)
i love my 70d but want to upgrade to mark iV

I looked at it too, but can't say my shooting would justify the prize.




  
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Jul 08, 2018 08:00 |  #14

With the examples and you indicating it’s only occurring in Servo mode, this is starting to feel like a camera body issue. I did a lot of BIF with the 70D and although not every image was a keeper in servo and burst, it was not to the extent described here. I was a little concerned about motion blur with the car, but the helicopter at the same speed seems way off.

I generally had no complaints about noise from that body at 1600 and below, unless I had to push shadows a lot, but that a user/exposure issue, not the camera.

To answer a couple questions from earlier. The IQ is not noticeably different with the 7DII. However, the function, handling, and experience is different though, which was the reason I changed. My keeper rate did go up. The IQ of the 6DII is different with shallower depth of field. It’s “better” at high ISO as the noise is cleaner, but that’s not a surprise with it being full frame. Not sure if the 1/4000 max shutter would be an issue for F1.

With the 70D, 7DII, and 6DII, I’ve only had to MFA Sigma lenses. The 150-600C was tweaked just a touch for the long end for the 70, but at 0 on the 7DII and 6DII. I just returned my 2nd example of the 18-35. Had one in Jan that was inconsistent, returned it. Gave it another chance in June, and it was a mess. Regardless of using the dock or body to MFA, it was unreliable, missing in single shot and even worse in servo. When it hit focus, it was great, but that was the exception. I really wanted to like it, but it’s inconsistency at both the short and long end was maddening. It helped drive my decision to keep the 6DII. I’ve not felt the need to MFA any of my canon glass on any of the 3 bodies.


7D2 | 6D2 | 10-22 | 15-85is | Rokinon 14 2.8 | 16-35isL | 24-70isL | 35is | 85 1.8 | 100-400 II L | Σ150-600 C | 430ex |

  
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Jul 08, 2018 10:13 |  #15

awacsCZE wrote in post #18658376 (external link)
I tried to catch all the errors up.

It's only some photos, mainly in servo mode. I had 24-70 f/4 L and 24-105 f/4L and returned them both, because they were incredibly soft (24-70 on 70mm and 24-105 around 50mm). I MFA them a lot, but nothing helped, the couldn't focus on spot and focused once before, once behind with same MFA setting. 24-70 even jumped the focus behind after manual focus.

Yes, the focus problems and noise is visible in day too, noise less, but it's more noticeable.

This is what I'm talking about - shot with 100-400 L II
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Thanks for the info. It sounds very complicated. At this stage I don't think it is possible to say if there is a fault in the 70D, but maybe there is. I can see that you could spend a lot of time doing trouble-shooting and controlled tests. Have you thought about sending the body and a lens to Canon for an evaluation? Canon is good at doing this. This would save you the time and trouble and frustration of doing further testing yourself.


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