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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 01 Jul 2018 (Sunday) 20:41
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Modelling lamp heat / safety

 
ChocolateCow
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Jul 01, 2018 20:41 |  #1

Hi all!

I've got a couple of Bowens Gemini 1000's in a studio. Ideally, I like to have the modelling lights on 100% so I can see how things will look, and not use the ceiling lights (it's for product photography).

However, I did notice that with a soft box on, it was getting pretty warm in there. Is it safe to leave the modelling lights on for hours at 100% with a soft box attachment? I did flip through the manuals and it didn't really mention whether this was safe or unsafe.




  
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Jul 01, 2018 21:10 |  #2

There are many factors, all the way down to ambient temp.

https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=18648279

That's a comment I recently made about a 300 watt modeling lamp!! That's hot. Common sense rules here.

What wattage?


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Angmo
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Jul 01, 2018 21:59 |  #3

With a softbox, I will open up the Velcro near the light so there’s some circulation at the softbox. No reason to keep Velcro ties tight.

Some soft boxes have vents too. Take a look at yours.


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Alveric
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Jul 01, 2018 23:26 |  #4

My monolights use 300W modeling lights, and so far no problem with good quality softboxes, which are built to specs (Chimera even has some softboxes certified for cinematic lights). With an elcheapo box, I'd turn the light off once I've gauged the light.

Upon the whole, it's not a good practice to leave the modeling light on for extended periods of time, though: power bill concerns, and if you are working on site and need to pack up after you're done it's best if your equipment and especially the glass dome are not piping hot.


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ThreeHounds
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Post edited 5 months ago by ThreeHounds.
     
Jul 02, 2018 08:10 |  #5

Not sure which series 1000's you have... I have 3 Gemini 500's that I replaced the 250 watt halogens with 100 (12) watt daylight leds. They actually appear brighter than the 250s. They are rated non-dimmable
and will flicker at the lowest and highest modeling light power settings, but work perfectly at all other levels. Bought them because I make abstract design transparencies for my projector unit and the halogens would melt them after about 30 seconds.


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Wilt
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Post edited 5 months ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Jul 02, 2018 10:05 as a reply to  @ ThreeHounds's post |  #6

Electrical consumption is what the Wattage rating refers to, for both incandescent and LED...it has NOTHING to do with amount of light emitted!
LED might use about % of the electricity to produce the same amount of light as incandescent/halogen.

For example, a 60W equivalent LED uses 6W of electricity to produce 500 Lumens of light, said by some to be equivalent to 60W incandescent. A different conversion source says 60W incandescent outputs 800 Lumens, which is output from 15W LED.
Your mileage may vary...One web retailer who shows Lumen ratings of their 60W incandescent bulbs shows 540-660 Lumens from various brands/models of 60W incandescent bulbs, so one wonders about the claim from another site about 800 Lumen output 'typical' from 60W bulbs!

A Cree 12.5W electrical consumption LED outputs 555 Lumens of light...each LED the approximate equivalent to some 60W bulbs. So I prefer to think of a 5:1 equivalence in electrical consumption vs. light output (incandencent:LED)


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RDKirk
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Jul 02, 2018 10:10 |  #7

ChocolateCow wrote in post #18654758 (external link)
Hi all!

I've got a couple of Bowens Gemini 1000's in a studio. Ideally, I like to have the modelling lights on 100% so I can see how things will look, and not use the ceiling lights (it's for product photography).

However, I did notice that with a soft box on, it was getting pretty warm in there. Is it safe to leave the modelling lights on for hours at 100% with a soft box attachment? I did flip through the manuals and it didn't really mention whether this was safe or unsafe.

Unless it's some very, very cheaply made softbox, it should be safe to enclose up to at least a 250 Watt halogen bulb. However, if the fabric actually touches the bulb, it will likely melt (at least at 250 Watts). Softboxes are not airtight and the flash should have an internal fan.




  
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ThreeHounds
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Jul 02, 2018 12:45 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #8

Thanks for clarifying, Wilt. I'm aware of the fact wattage is a measure of consumption, not output. I just didn't illustrate it well (or at all).
The point I was making was that the OP stated he liked the modeling lights set to max, and the leds I use are actually brighter than the halogens at lower settings, plus daylight balanced to boot.


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Wilt
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Post edited 5 months ago by Wilt.
     
Jul 07, 2018 09:22 |  #9

The 'safety' consideration of leaving modelling lamp on ...IT DEPENDS!

If the studio head has a fan, no issue.
If the studio head has no fan, then the softbox design characteristics matter.

SOME softboxes (for video/movie industry) are designed for use with hotlights continuously on, while others (generally for still photography) are not unless used with a fan cooled head.
And the issue might not merely be 'safety' as much as ability of the electronics to function in a very hot environment inside the softbox.


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RicoTudor
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Post edited 5 months ago by RicoTudor.
     
Jul 07, 2018 14:20 |  #10

Wilt wrote in post #18657880 (external link)
The 'safety' consideration of leaving modelling lamp on ...IT DEPENDS!

And Wilt means it really depends! Besides quality and service, a top-of-the-line manufacturer like Chimera will provide such details about their SB products. From their FAQ page...

What is the maximum wattage light I can put in a Video Pro Lightbank?

The recommended maximum wattage of a fixture in a Video Pro lightbank depends on the size of the bank and the fixture being used. These are the recommended maximums based on size and tungsten/halogen bulbs:

Video Pro Plus Lightbanks
XXS: 500W
XS: 750W
Small: 100W
Medium: 1200W
Large: 1200W

Video Pro Strips:
Small Strip: 750W
Medium Strip: 1200W
Large Strip: 1200W

Video Pro Shallow:
Small Shallow: 750W
Medium Shallow: 1200W
Large Shallow: 1200W

Your SB being protected from scorching is merely a wattage issue. Protecting your strobe from cooking itself with its modelling light is related to SB size and airflow, active cooling (fan), and wattage of modelling. Strobe temperature due to xenon discharge is also a factor, of course. In the case of quality strobes like Profoto, the head detects overheating for any reason and shuts down. That feature also applies to fanless heads like AcuteB and Pro-B (ask me how I know :)).

The hotlight wattage ratings above are none too high: I have strobes with modelling lights almost as hot. I have Chimera and Profoto SB in both strobe and hotlight categories, and use prudence in all combinations. The studio workhorses of panels and reflectors avoid the overheating problem of confining modifiers. The exception is fresnel fixtures which can get hot as a furnace but are made of metal—what a clever idea!

Other than watt rating, there are subtle differences between Chimera SB lines for strobe, hot light, and LED.

Ref: http://chimeralighting​.com/faq/ (external link)


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RDKirk
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Jul 07, 2018 20:00 |  #11

RicoTudor wrote in post #18658036 (external link)
And Wilt means it really depends! Besides quality and service, a top-of-the-line manufacturer like Chimera will provide such details about their SB products. From their FAQ page...

What is the maximum wattage light I can put in a Video Pro Lightbank?

The recommended maximum wattage of a fixture in a Video Pro lightbank depends on the size of the bank and the fixture being used. These are the recommended maximums based on size and tungsten/halogen bulbs:

Video Pro Plus Lightbanks
XXS: 500W
XS: 750W
Small: 100W
Medium: 1200W
Large: 1200W

Video Pro Strips:
Small Strip: 750W
Medium Strip: 1200W
Large Strip: 1200W

Video Pro Shallow:
Small Shallow: 750W
Medium Shallow: 1200W
Large Shallow: 1200W

Your SB being protected from scorching is merely a wattage issue. Protecting your strobe from cooking itself with its modelling light is related to SB size and airflow, active cooling (fan), and wattage of modelling. Strobe temperature due to xenon discharge is also a factor, of course. In the case of quality strobes like Profoto, the head detects overheating for any reason and shuts down. That feature also applies to fanless heads like AcuteB and Pro-B (ask me how I know :)).

The hotlight wattage ratings above are none too high: I have strobes with modelling lights almost as hot. I have Chimera and Profoto SB in both strobe and hotlight categories, and use prudence in all combinations. The studio workhorses of panels and reflectors avoid the overheating problem of confining modifiers. The exception is fresnel fixtures which can get hot as a furnace but are made of metal—what a clever idea!

Other than watt rating, there are subtle differences between Chimera SB lines for strobe, hot light, and LED.

Ref: http://chimeralighting​.com/faq/ (external link)

Most electronic flash units have modeling lamps of 250 Watts or less, however, which is only 30% of the maximum of the most vulnerable modifier you listed.




  
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simonbarker
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Post edited 5 months ago by simonbarker.
     
Jul 09, 2018 05:34 |  #12

ChocolateCow wrote in post #18654758 (external link)
Hi all!

I've got a couple of Bowens Gemini 1000's in a studio. Ideally, I like to have the modelling lights on 100% so I can see how things will look, and not use the ceiling lights (it's for product photography).

However, I did notice that with a soft box on, it was getting pretty warm in there. Is it safe to leave the modelling lights on for hours at 100% with a soft box attachment? I did flip through the manuals and it didn't really mention whether this was safe or unsafe.

If you've got a Pro Gemini it should have a fan so the heat shouldn't be able to build up enough to pose a problem.

If you've got an older model without a fan then the head should cut out the modelling light if it overheats and you should be using either a 150w or 250w bulb, both of which are unlikely to get hot enough to pose a risk.




  
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Angmo
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Jul 09, 2018 14:44 |  #13

Open a bit of the Velcro on the softbox near the mount to the strobe. A bit of airflow there helps.


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Modelling lamp heat / safety
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