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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 13 Jul 2018 (Friday) 06:38
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Current 7D MII user - wanting full frame...?

 
bobbyz
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Post edited 8 months ago by bobbyz.
     
Jul 19, 2018 22:52 as a reply to  @ post 18666402 |  #76

Fuji is reportedly making a 80mm f1.4 for the GFX. And for their 1.5x crop the long rumored 33mm f1.0 is rumored again to be back on track. Personally I have been very happy with Fuji 56mm f1.2 on XT. Yes it had less DoF than 85L but 85L is mostly f2 for me using dSLR. If I was shooting 85mm f1.4 on FF, I would want it to be Sony lens with Sony body having eye detect.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
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Ah-keong
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Jul 19, 2018 22:54 as a reply to  @ bobbyz's post |  #77

I must say the Fuji 56mm f/1,2 is a great lens.... :p


Canon 7D2+grip | 18-35mm ART | EF-S 10-18mm | EF 70-200mm f/2,8L IS II | ZE 2/100mm | ZE 2/35mm | ZE 1,4/85mm | CV 3,5/20mm | Nikkor 60mm f/2,8D |
Olympus E-PL3 | 7-14mm f/2,8 |
Speedlite 430EX III-RT | 600EX-RT | YN 600EX-RT |
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RPCrowe
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Post edited 8 months ago by RPCrowe.
     
Jul 19, 2018 23:23 |  #78

Ah-keong wrote in post #18663778 (external link)
I would get a used 5D2, 35mm f/2 and 85mm f/1,8. Some (say two) 600EX-RT flashes, lighting modifiers and books :rolleyes:

I agree with that... I have a 5D2 and a 6D2 and a 7D2 and I am not sure which one I really like best. I know that I like the focus of my 7D2 better than either of the two full framers...

The 5D2 auto focus system is clunky and kind or reminds me of my old 40D. I have to sell this guy soon. But, its image quality is right up there with the 5D Mark III at ISO 3200 and lower...

The relatively new Canon 35mm f/2 IS is a great lens for either full frame or crop sensor shooting.

The 6D2 "would" or "could" have had a decent auto focus system IF (and that's a BIG if!) Canon had not just plopped the 80D auto focus system into the middle of the full frame sensor. The 6D2 drives me crazy when I am trying to use the eye level viewfinder in servo AF mode, The auto focus array is grouped in the very center of the frame.

The Dual Pixel AF using live view is spot on for people - especially when using face detect technology "IF" (and that's a DAMN BIG IF) the sun doesn't completely block out the LCD viewfinder.

A guy name Dirkson on YouTube uses the 6D2 for street photography but, while they are O.K., his efforts are more snap shots than anything that I would call serious photography. https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=6FsJcUn6L9o (external link)

You can use a Hoodman viewing loupe but there is a problem with that. You cannot designate a point on which to focus by using a joy stick and you cannot use the touch screen when using the Hoodman loupe,

The 6D2 is absolutely great for studio work and IMO unsurpassed for shooting focus stacked sequences. The touch screen is fabulous for this. I am in a love-hate relationship with this camera.

Still for most shooting, I far prefer my 7D2....

OTOH: I would not go with Canon 600RT flashes. For the price of two 600EX RT flashes, I could get a while set of Godox flashes with modifiers and triggers. A pair of 600 manual flashes at about $60 each. A 650 with TTL at about $110... A 360 TTL setup for about $300 (from Adorama) and the Pro model trigger for about $70. All of these for the price of a single 600EX RT. And all of the above flashes can be used as both masters and as slaves. You could buy some light stands and a couple of modifiers for the price of the second 600EX RT... The Godox type modifiers are really quite cheap - I just purchased this one https://www.adorama.co​m …C9BGNB9wxLUhoCn​jQQAvD_BwE (external link)

and I love this one for outdoor work because it has less of a sail factor in the wind..
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=v9HGyAOG5x8 (external link)
I paid $30 for this beauty...


See my images at http://rpcrowe.smugmug​.com/ (external link)

  
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AlanU
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Jul 20, 2018 00:58 |  #79

bobbyz wrote in post #18666409 (external link)
Fuji is reportedly making a 80mm f1.4 for the GFX. And for their 1.5x crop the long rumored 33mm f1.0 is rumored again to be back on track. Personally I have been very happy with Fuji 56mm f1.2 on XT. Yes it had less DoF than 85L but 85L is mostly f2 for me using dSLR. If I was shooting 85mm f1.4 on FF, I would want it to be Sony lens with Sony body having eye detect.

I still have a preference to use my 5dmk4 with 85L mk2 for human subjects. The 56mm on the Fuji X-T2 is also an amazing IQ beast. I still prefer Canon and Fuji for human subjects over my Sony A7iii render.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
Sony A7iii w/ Sigma MC-11 adapter | GM16-35 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | GM70-200 f/2.8 |Sigma Art 24 f/1.4 | Godox V860iiS

  
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Bassat
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Jul 20, 2018 01:04 |  #80

Ah-keong wrote in post #18666402 (external link)
A full frame (or larger format) would be required if you need very shallow depth.
For example, an 85mm f/1,4 on a say Canon Full Frame, you would need a effectively ~53mm f/0,8 lens which is not available.... :cry:

This is demonstrably not true. It also gets repeated so often that it appears to be gospel. Add this to the list of 1,001 things you KNOW, that are NOT true. I saw an appropriate saying on a church billboard the other day, "Don't believe everything you think." It works here.

DOF is controlled by aperture, and distance. Sensor size does not matter. Yet, again.




  
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rantercsr
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Jul 20, 2018 01:09 |  #81

Bassat wrote in post #18666464 (external link)
This is demonstrably not true. It also gets repeated so often that it appears to be gospel. Add this to the list of 1,001 things you KNOW, that are NOT true. I saw an appropriate saying on a church billboard the other day, "Don't believe everything you think." It works here.

DOF is controlled by aperture, and distance. Sensor size does not matter. Yet, again.


well , within a certain distance tho.. is what should have been added to ah-keong statement..

I can get the look of a head shot taken with a FF and 85mm @ 1.2 ,on a micro four thirds camera.. but at what distance? at what apterture? at what focal length ?

once the math is all figured out ,,.. does the lens and space exist?


I got a couple of Cameras and lenses ...Canon, Sony, Fuji, Pansonic, pentax
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Ah-keong
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Jul 20, 2018 01:18 |  #82

RPCrowe wrote in post #18666429 (external link)
I agree with that... I have a 5D2 and a 6D2 and a 7D2 and I am not sure which one I really like best. I know that I like the focus of my 7D2 better than either of the two full framers...

The 5D2 auto focus system is clunky and kind or reminds me of my old 40D. I have to sell this guy soon. But, its image quality is right up there with the 5D Mark III at ISO 3200 and lower...

The relatively new Canon 35mm f/2 IS is a great lens for either full frame or crop sensor shooting.

The 6D2 "would" or "could" have had a decent auto focus system IF (and that's a BIG if!) Canon had not just plopped the 80D auto focus system into the middle of the full frame sensor. The 6D2 drives me crazy when I am trying to use the eye level viewfinder in servo AF mode, The auto focus array is grouped in the very center of the frame.

The Dual Pixel AF using live view is spot on for people - especially when using face detect technology "IF" (and that's a DAMN BIG IF) the sun doesn't completely block out the LCD viewfinder.

A guy name Dirkson on YouTube uses the 6D2 for street photography but, while they are O.K., his efforts are more snap shots than anything that I would call serious photography. https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=6FsJcUn6L9o (external link)

You can use a Hoodman viewing loupe but there is a problem with that. You cannot designate a point on which to focus by using a joy stick and you cannot use the touch screen when using the Hoodman loupe,

The 6D2 is absolutely great for studio work and IMO unsurpassed for shooting focus stacked sequences. The touch screen is fabulous for this. I am in a love-hate relationship with this camera.

Still for most shooting, I far prefer my 7D2....

OTOH: I would not go with Canon 600RT flashes. For the price of two 600EX RT flashes, I could get a while set of Godox flashes with modifiers and triggers. A pair of 600 manual flashes at about $60 each. A 650 with TTL at about $110... A 360 TTL setup for about $300 (from Adorama) and the Pro model trigger for about $70. All of these for the price of a single 600EX RT. And all of the above flashes can be used as both masters and as slaves. You could buy some light stands and a couple of modifiers for the price of the second 600EX RT... The Godox type modifiers are really quite cheap - I just purchased this one https://www.adorama.co​m …C9BGNB9wxLUhoCn​jQQAvD_BwE (external link)

and I love this one for outdoor work because it has less of a sail factor in the wind..
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=v9HGyAOG5x8 (external link)
I paid $30 for this beauty...

Didn't know that, I got a 430 and a 600 speedlite and wanted to get a say Westcott Rapid Box Octa/Duo or something for portability....  :p


Canon 7D2+grip | 18-35mm ART | EF-S 10-18mm | EF 70-200mm f/2,8L IS II | ZE 2/100mm | ZE 2/35mm | ZE 1,4/85mm | CV 3,5/20mm | Nikkor 60mm f/2,8D |
Olympus E-PL3 | 7-14mm f/2,8 |
Speedlite 430EX III-RT | 600EX-RT | YN 600EX-RT |
Manfrotto BeFree Travel Tripod |

  
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Ah-keong
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Post edited 8 months ago by Ah-keong.
     
Jul 20, 2018 01:22 |  #83

Bassat wrote in post #18666464 (external link)
This is demonstrably not true. It also gets repeated so often that it appears to be gospel. Add this to the list of 1,001 things you KNOW, that are NOT true. I saw an appropriate saying on a church billboard the other day, "Don't believe everything you think." It works here.

DOF is controlled by aperture, and distance. Sensor size does not matter. Yet, again.

well, to a certain extent. I agree with you assuming some parameters can be "compensated" in one way or another.

as of today (technology wise), I uses the Olympus (m43 format) system to compliment the Canon (35mm/aps-c format) system.

meanwhile, I would say "the differences is negligible" (By Zack Arias).

But I must say that I still want to get a 1DX mark II  :p


Canon 7D2+grip | 18-35mm ART | EF-S 10-18mm | EF 70-200mm f/2,8L IS II | ZE 2/100mm | ZE 2/35mm | ZE 1,4/85mm | CV 3,5/20mm | Nikkor 60mm f/2,8D |
Olympus E-PL3 | 7-14mm f/2,8 |
Speedlite 430EX III-RT | 600EX-RT | YN 600EX-RT |
Manfrotto BeFree Travel Tripod |

  
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Ah-keong
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Jul 20, 2018 01:26 |  #84

rantercsr wrote in post #18666466 (external link)
well , within a certain distance tho.. is what should have been added to ah-keong statement..

I can get the look of a head shot taken with a FF and 85mm @ 1.2 ,on a micro four thirds camera.. but at what distance? at what apterture? at what focal length ?

once the math is all figured out ,,.. does the lens and space exist?

Very true. I was looking at the M.Zuiko 45mm f/1,2 lens which would get to effectively ~90mm f/2,4
was thinking how would a M.Zuiko lens look like if it were 45mm f/0,6....  :p


Canon 7D2+grip | 18-35mm ART | EF-S 10-18mm | EF 70-200mm f/2,8L IS II | ZE 2/100mm | ZE 2/35mm | ZE 1,4/85mm | CV 3,5/20mm | Nikkor 60mm f/2,8D |
Olympus E-PL3 | 7-14mm f/2,8 |
Speedlite 430EX III-RT | 600EX-RT | YN 600EX-RT |
Manfrotto BeFree Travel Tripod |

  
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AlanU
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Post edited 8 months ago by AlanU. (2 edits in all)
     
Jul 20, 2018 01:33 |  #85

Ah-keong wrote in post #18666411 (external link)
I must say the Fuji 56mm f/1,2 is a great lens.... :p

What is interesting is that if you use a Sony with GM 85mm it locks AF with confidence. Using my X-T2 with the latest 4.20 firmware you should hear the aggressive CHATTER!!!! The 56mm f/1.2 makes louder sounds than an older generation Canon nifty 50mm f/1.8!! With this new 4.2 firmware the Af sounds unrefined. It's very apparent Fuj's new AF algorithm just hammers the AF motor to gain some AF speed. You can literally feel a pronounced vibration as the AF motor is hammering away.

http://www.alanuyenoph​otography.com …01554/hB1954224​#hb1954224 (external link)


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
Sony A7iii w/ Sigma MC-11 adapter | GM16-35 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | GM70-200 f/2.8 |Sigma Art 24 f/1.4 | Godox V860iiS

  
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Ah-keong
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Jul 20, 2018 01:49 |  #86

AlanU wrote in post #18666477 (external link)
What is interesting is that if you use a Sony with GM 85mm it locks AF with confidence. Using my X-T2 with the latest 4.20 firmware you should hear the aggressive CHATTER!!!! The 56mm f/1.2 makes louder sounds than an older generation Canon nifty 50mm f/1.8!! With this new 4.2 firmware the Af sounds unrefined. It's very apparent Fuj's new AF algorithm just hammers the AF motor to gain some AF speed. You can literally feel a pronounced vibration as the AF motor is hammering away.

http://www.alanuyenoph​otography.com …01554/hB1954224​#hb1954224 (external link)

Think the hardware is stressed by the software to perform!
 :p


Canon 7D2+grip | 18-35mm ART | EF-S 10-18mm | EF 70-200mm f/2,8L IS II | ZE 2/100mm | ZE 2/35mm | ZE 1,4/85mm | CV 3,5/20mm | Nikkor 60mm f/2,8D |
Olympus E-PL3 | 7-14mm f/2,8 |
Speedlite 430EX III-RT | 600EX-RT | YN 600EX-RT |
Manfrotto BeFree Travel Tripod |

  
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AlanU
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Jul 20, 2018 01:52 |  #87

Ah-keong wrote in post #18666481 (external link)
Think the hardware is stressed by the software to perform!
 :p

I just tested my fuji 16mm f/1.4 and it's not as loud as the 56mm. However you can really tell that fuji is just pushing the AF motor real hard with the new firmware.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
Sony A7iii w/ Sigma MC-11 adapter | GM16-35 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | GM70-200 f/2.8 |Sigma Art 24 f/1.4 | Godox V860iiS

  
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Ah-keong
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Jul 20, 2018 01:56 |  #88

AlanU wrote in post #18666485 (external link)
I just tested my fuji 16mm f/1.4 and it's not as loud as the 56mm. However you can really tell that fuji is just pushing the AF motor real hard with the new firmware.

seems like a 56mm f/1,2 mark II needs to come quick before something burns out....  :p


Canon 7D2+grip | 18-35mm ART | EF-S 10-18mm | EF 70-200mm f/2,8L IS II | ZE 2/100mm | ZE 2/35mm | ZE 1,4/85mm | CV 3,5/20mm | Nikkor 60mm f/2,8D |
Olympus E-PL3 | 7-14mm f/2,8 |
Speedlite 430EX III-RT | 600EX-RT | YN 600EX-RT |
Manfrotto BeFree Travel Tripod |

  
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Bassat
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Jul 20, 2018 01:57 |  #89

rantercsr wrote in post #18666466 (external link)
well , within a certain distance tho.. is what should have been added to ah-keong statement..

I can get the look of a head shot taken with a FF and 85mm @ 1.2 ,on a micro four thirds camera.. but at what distance? at what apterture? at what focal length ?

once the math is all figured out ,,.. does the lens and space exist?

There are a million and one ways to NOT get the same DOF on different sensor sizes. My only point is that sensor size does not affect DOF. If you shoot f/1.2 on FF and m4/3, you will get the EXACT SAME DOF. But as you say, the distance will be different. Focal length is as irrelevant as sensor size.

The difference for the shots above was about 2X, no matter the format (because sensor size does not matter). If I shoot a 50mm from 2x the distance of the 24mm (both at same aperture), the result is the same DOF.




  
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Post edited 8 months ago by Two Hot Shoes. (3 edits in all)
     
Jul 20, 2018 05:48 |  #90

AlanU wrote in post #18666477 (external link)
What is interesting is that if you use a Sony with GM 85mm it locks AF with confidence. Using my X-T2 with the latest 4.20 firmware you should hear the aggressive CHATTER!!!! The 56mm f/1.2 makes louder sounds than an older generation Canon nifty 50mm f/1.8!! With this new 4.2 firmware the Af sounds unrefined. It's very apparent Fuj's new AF algorithm just hammers the AF motor to gain some AF speed. You can literally feel a pronounced vibration as the AF motor is hammering away.

http://www.alanuyenoph​otography.com …01554/hB1954224​#hb1954224 (external link)

Really? Mine sounds just like all the other Fuji lenses that don't use a linear motor [the LM in the title], both on the X-T2 with FW4.2 and on the X-PRO2 with FW5. My 56/1.2 grabs focus fine, locks on with plenty of confidence and NO chattering for me. Sounds just like using the 56/1.2 on an X-T1 only the focus is quicker.

The Sony GM85/1.4 is not known for it's fast AF, like most portrait lenses, but that's just what I have read from other users, the Batis is said to be faster. I find the Fuji 56/1.2 to be plenty fast enough for portraits, remember it is a F/1.2 lens. My Fuji 50mm F/2 locks on way quicker that that FF f/1.4...
For most event work I'll usually just pop on the lightning quick XF16-55/2.8 if I need very fast AF at an event.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T3. 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 50-140/2.8.
Pelican, Ona, ThinkTank, Matthews Grip, Elinchrom

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Current 7D MII user - wanting full frame...?
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