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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 06 Aug 2018 (Monday) 15:35
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long hiatus.....

 
308Shooter
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Aug 06, 2018 15:35 |  #1

Hello all,
Haven't been here in a while and wasn't on much prior as it was.
Just jumped into the FF market this weekend with the 6DmII.. - Bought the kit with the 24-105L and battery grip.
First shots were a little flat and disappointing. Of course, there wasn't anything spectacular about where I was shooting and it was a slower shutter speed as well ~40@f4. Results could have been user error.

Anyway... Thoughts in general on the camera are appreciated. Wanna make sure I don't have an impulse buy I'll regret as a result of a sale price....

Thanks,

Jamey




  
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Jethr0
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Aug 06, 2018 15:44 |  #2

Hi!

I don’t own a 6d2 but have seen some spectacular pics posted here from that camera.
If you’ve been away from shooting pics for a while maybe you just need some time to shake the cobwebs off.


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308Shooter
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Aug 06, 2018 16:07 as a reply to  @ Jethr0's post |  #3

OH..... I definitely need to shake off the cobwebs... When I say a long hiatus, I mean the last time I really shot consistently was when the 20d was new on the market.

I don't just have cobwebs, but decay all around me I need to sweep away as well. :lol:




  
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AZGeorge
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Aug 07, 2018 18:02 |  #4

308Shooter wrote in post #18678760 (external link)
. . . First shots were a little flat and disappointing.

That squares with my experience. Once we get beyond the "does this thing work" stage results get much better.

My favorite trick is to take the new equipment to a place of known beauty and be prepared to spend great gobs of extra time preparing for shots.

You might also want to shoot RAW. You have a good camera but it might not produce JPG's that match your expectations and style.

Have fun! Soon enough you will want to use your new machine for some serious shooting.


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308Shooter
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Aug 07, 2018 20:12 as a reply to  @ AZGeorge's post |  #5

Thanks.. That's exactly my plan... I just spent a little time out in the garden this evening just getting used to the different settings and testing things. Trying to get that "Tack Sharp" image. Getting closer...

Excited about the possibilities. Going to Glacier National Park at the end of the month. Can't wait......




  
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Snydremark
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Aug 07, 2018 21:49 |  #6

Regarding the results being flat; were you looking at jpegs output by the camera or results of processing RAW files? Going along with that, what Picture Style setting are you using?


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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308Shooter
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Aug 07, 2018 22:26 as a reply to  @ Snydremark's post |  #7

I shot in RAW and used Lightroom to review them. I hadn't adjusted any settings yet, so the Picture style was on auto. I tried a couple different ones today and they were a little better. Not exactly "tack sharp", but better. Previously, however, the shutter was slower and I was hand holding the shots while hiking. I'm sure that had something to do with it. But any advice would be great. I haven't looked yet, but I think I can set a custom style with maybe a +1 on sharpness???? Thoughts??




  
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Snydremark
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Aug 07, 2018 23:20 |  #8

308Shooter wrote in post #18679815 (external link)
I shot in RAW and used Lightroom to review them. I hadn't adjusted any settings yet, so the Picture style was on auto. I tried a couple different ones today and they were a little better. Not exactly "tack sharp", but better. Previously, however, the shutter was slower and I was hand holding the shots while hiking. I'm sure that had something to do with it. But any advice would be great. I haven't looked yet, but I think I can set a custom style with maybe a +1 on sharpness???? Thoughts??

Some folks set pre-sets for sharpness, but I don't like the idea since different shoots give different results; since I handhold 98% of my shots and can dip to lower shutters as you've seen. You definitely need to apply some level of sharpening to RAWs for your final output to get crisp shots a lot of the time, IMO.

I recommend setting lens profile correction as your first step in LR; it'll correct minor distortion based on the lens used and that panel gives you the various picture styles to try out and see whether they work better for the particular shot(s) you're dealing with. Then move back up and start working your way down through the develop panels. I find that, if I did my job at capture, I can frequently get away with lens correction, picture style and some nr/sharpening. Just be sure to make use of noise reduction before sharpening and then use the Masking slider for sharpening so that you help avoid sharpening any noise that does exist.

As for your original concern, there's nothing at all wrong w/ having jumped back in with the 6DII unless some feature doesn't keep up with what you're shooting. The RAW processing, internal image processors and sensors have advanced quite a bit since the 20D days ;) so there's certainly going to be a learning curve, but you'll get there, I'm betting.

I vaguely remember your forum handle from 'the old days', but I don't recall your familiarity level with digital overall; if you aren't familiar with the Histogram and what it's actually showing you, doing some searches here and online would be a good idea. Learning to read that will help you better evaluate your shots in the field than relying on the LCD that has varying visibility depending on conditions you're working in. It also helps you be able to identify what tweaks you need to make in LR or other image software


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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TeamSpeed
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Aug 08, 2018 00:57 |  #9

Raise your shutter speed by upping your ISO. Target 1/250th if you can to be safe at 105mm. Use ai servo if you or the foliage is moving, and start by using the center AF point for now.


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308Shooter
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Aug 08, 2018 11:16 |  #10

Snydremark wrote in post #18679837 (external link)
Some folks set pre-sets for sharpness, but I don't like the idea since different shoots give different results; since I handhold 98% of my shots and can dip to lower shutters as you've seen. You definitely need to apply some level of sharpening to RAWs for your final output to get crisp shots a lot of the time, IMO.

I recommend setting lens profile correction as your first step in LR; it'll correct minor distortion based on the lens used and that panel gives you the various picture styles to try out and see whether they work better for the particular shot(s) you're dealing with. Then move back up and start working your way down through the develop panels. I find that, if I did my job at capture, I can frequently get away with lens correction, picture style and some nr/sharpening. Just be sure to make use of noise reduction before sharpening and then use the Masking slider for sharpening so that you help avoid sharpening any noise that does exist.

As for your original concern, there's nothing at all wrong w/ having jumped back in with the 6DII unless some feature doesn't keep up with what you're shooting. The RAW processing, internal image processors and sensors have advanced quite a bit since the 20D days ;) so there's certainly going to be a learning curve, but you'll get there, I'm betting.

I vaguely remember your forum handle from 'the old days', but I don't recall your familiarity level with digital overall; if you aren't familiar with the Histogram and what it's actually showing you, doing some searches here and online would be a good idea. Learning to read that will help you better evaluate your shots in the field than relying on the LCD that has varying visibility depending on conditions you're working in. It also helps you be able to identify what tweaks you need to make in LR or other image software


Thanks Snydremark... This is exactly the type of information/suggestion I was looking for. I'm not very familiar with LR and actually just ordered/received a book on how to use it to help familiarize myself with it. Your recommendations couldn't have come at a better time.
I'm somewhat familiar with the digital process and the histogram, but can definitely use a refresher. Although, I've "been into" photography for years. I haven't practiced in years, so I feel like a complete NEWB - but at least I'm excited about it again.

Thanks again... PERFECT!!!!!




  
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308Shooter
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Aug 08, 2018 11:19 |  #11

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18679870 (external link)
Raise your shutter speed by upping your ISO. Target 1/250th if you can to be safe at 105mm. Use ai servo if you or the foliage is moving, and start by using the center AF point for now.

TeamSpeed... Thank you as well. I actually just set my AF point to center yesterday and also played with the ISO yesterday as well. In my past days, I got a lot of noise at the 800 mark and beyond, but now seeing pictures in the forum where a lot of people are at 800 and their shots are completely void of noise. I'm sure some of that is post processing as well, which I'm learning.

Thanks for the suggestion.... I'm hoping to try it out tonight.....
Thanks again.

Jamey




  
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Snydremark
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Aug 08, 2018 13:03 |  #12

308Shooter wrote in post #18680150 (external link)
Thanks Snydremark... This is exactly the type of information/suggestion I was looking for. I'm not very familiar with LR and actually just ordered/received a book on how to use it to help familiarize myself with it. Your recommendations couldn't have come at a better time.
I'm somewhat familiar with the digital process and the histogram, but can definitely use a refresher. Although, I've "been into" photography for years. I haven't practiced in years, so I feel like a complete NEWB - but at least I'm excited about it again.

Thanks again... PERFECT!!!!!

Happy if it helps! :) One of the best things about LR (and other, non-destructive editors) is that you can freely play around with all of the adjustments and simply revert to your base image at any point. So, feel free to go heavy-handed with any of the settings to see what effects they have on your images.

Regarding ISO noise, I wouldn't even *start* worrying about that with the 6DII until you get into the 6400 - 12,800 range. As long as your exposures are correct and not underexposed, standard NR tools are able to deal with it quite simply and easily...depending on your final output and own pickiness, you may even find that you don't really NEED to do much NR at those levels. I also recommend using the Color NR slider *first* since it's the chroma "speckling" that tends to be most noticeable/objectionab​le and getting rid of that can make it so you feel less need to do more heavy-handed NR and avoid further mushing up of your details.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
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TeamSpeed
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Aug 08, 2018 13:56 as a reply to  @ 308Shooter's post |  #13

1) Don't underexpose, always nail the exposure, or get the image a tad bright.
2) If you are shooting JPEG, set the High ISO NR in one of the menus to standard or strong, but then compensate by setting your selected picture style with increased sharpening

To get the best however, you will need to eventually pick up some good post processing techniques for noise management. :)


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Snydremark
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Aug 08, 2018 18:28 |  #14

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18680274 (external link)
1) Don't underexpose, always nail the exposure, or get the image a tad bright.
2) If you are shooting JPEG, set the High ISO NR in one of the menus to standard or strong, but then compensate by setting your selected picture style with increased sharpening

To get the best however, you will need to eventually pick up some good post processing techniques for noise management. :)

For High ISO NR, does the camera still take the NR frame if you have it set to shoot RAW only? I don't have my camera handy to test that out ATM.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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davesrose
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Aug 08, 2018 19:21 as a reply to  @ Snydremark's post |  #15

@Syndremark: NR might still be applied to the jpeg preview portion of the RAW, and depending on software....it may also pick up on your NR settings (IE Adobe software may not show NR, but Canon could). The main philosophy of RAW though, is that you're getting all the sensor data so that you could also try getting settings without NR, different WB, some exposure latitude, etc.

As for the OP getting back into photography: yeah, I shoot RAW and jpeg, and I find that if I look at thumbnails in File Explorer....RAWs look more washed out then the jpegs. Part of it is the color profile: especially if you're using the default color profiles from your camera, they will be quite a bit more contrasted and saturated then the presented RAW preview. When I load my RAWs into Lightroom, I have them "As Shot"...and colors then have some more punch then the File Explorer thumbnails. I tend to set exposure and blackpoint and whitepoint values for the first photo in the series. Once it's the way I like, I'll copy the develop settings and apply them to the rest of the photos. We all have different methods that work for us....I think the key in learning to get successful photos is to try focusing one thing at a time. If currently you're not comfortable using AF points and nailing focus....I think you should keep your exposure settings more on auto (or auto priority), and learn how to use zones (and spot AF) and comfortably switch between one shot and ai servo. I use back button focus. Do keep in mind that if you want tack sharp images, making sure you don't have slow shutter is also crucial. You may start learning these setting after awhile and when you're ready, start to move on to controlling exposure manually. I tend to have my camera in a priority mode, but I'm still looking at all exposure settings to be sure they're in the range I want them to be.

As for the color profile settings most photographers use: Faithful is popular for maintaining color accuracy and saturation. I like Neutral myself, which emphasizes contrast (and might let me determine my latitude in highlights).


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long hiatus.....
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