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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 05 Aug 2018 (Sunday) 21:22
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Does mirrorless do anything for you?

 
EverydayGetaway
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Aug 08, 2018 18:01 |  #136

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680325 (external link)
Exactly. Ive never had an agency, editor or any client ask me if I was using an APS-C or FF sensor camera, or if I was using a Rebel or a 5Div, they dont care as long as they like the finished product. Thats why I get a kick out of online forums, the guys shooting to show off their photos online, obsessing over DR for their shots of their kids or some random shot in a park and spending thousands more on f/1.2 lenses because they are convinced that f/1.4 (or *gasp*, f/1.8!) just wont get them that amazing bokeh and quality images to post on their Flickr :-P Its great entertainment.

This.

When I finally realized that the forum's "X camera DESTROYS Y camera for X/Y/Z reasons" talk is all just opinionated hyperbole mumbo-jumbo it made the process of actually taking photos so much more enjoyable. My cameras are each more capable than anything people had just 10 years ago, yet everyone managed just fine back then. Me thinks people worry far too much over minute differences in "image quality".

Hogloff wrote in post #18680337 (external link)
Sure when lighting is not challenging or AF is not challenging then just about any camera will do. Get away from “nice conditions” and you’ll quickly appreciate the more advanced cameras abilities.

But the post he quoted you on made claims over Rebel IQ being far worse than your Sony gear... he showed that the difference in IQ isn't nearly as important as you implied. Your original claim had nothing to do with any other conditions.

Hogloff wrote in post #18680425 (external link)
Take that model into a very dimly lit bar and let's see the rebels shine. I've used rebels and 7d cameras and I know their high ISO limitations compared to today's full frame cameras like the Sony A73. Let's not even get into trying to accurately focus on the eyes with a fast lens.

I still claim you cannot create a comparable light kit using a DSLR system as you can using something like the A73. It's true competitor is the 5d4...not some rebel. I looked at some of your posts and I understand you just don't like mirror less, but really you are trying to tell me a rebel based kit is compatible to a A73 or A7R3 kit.

Which rebel and which 7D? Canon's old 18mp sensor was severely lacking in high ISO, from everything I've seen this isn't really the case with their newer APS-C sensors. We're talking about at most a 2 stop advantage for a modern FF... for many/most users it's not worth fretting over.


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EverydayGetaway
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Aug 08, 2018 18:06 |  #137

aezoss wrote in post #18680431 (external link)
Good feedback, thanks. I'll dig into the manual, Youtube etc and see what I can coax out of it.

No problem!

What I would recommend for shooting something like dogs would be AF-C, custom tracking mode 1 or 5 and the large selective focus box.

I have "My Menu" setup so that the custom AF-C options are second on the list. It makes it much quicker to change modes depending on the subject/conditions I'm shooting in. Generally I find that mode 1 is the best all around for most conditions, but some of the other modes are definitely better for certain things.

As I said, definitely more complicated than I think it should be.


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Hogloff
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Aug 08, 2018 18:27 |  #138
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EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18680433 (external link)
This.

But the post he quoted you on made claims over Rebel IQ being far worse than your Sony gear... he showed that the difference in IQ isn't nearly as important as you implied. Your original claim had nothing to do with any other conditions.

.

Under good conditions the iPhone creates great images. I would think us more advanced photographers understand this and look beyond ideal conditions when we are discussing how different cameras perform.

It's like saying the 1dx2 and the rebel are equal at AF when shooting still landscapes...well duh.




  
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EverydayGetaway
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Aug 08, 2018 18:43 |  #139

Hogloff wrote in post #18680444 (external link)
Under good conditions the iPhone creates great images. I would think us more advanced photographers understand this and look beyond ideal conditions when we are discussing how different cameras perform.

It's like saying the 1dx2 and the rebel are equal at AF when shooting still landscapes...well duh.

Obvious strawman, is obviously a strawman.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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Mbell1975
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Aug 08, 2018 18:48 |  #140
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Hogloff wrote in post #18680425 (external link)
Take that model into a very dimly lit bar and let's see the rebels shine. I've used rebels and 7d cameras and I know their high ISO limitations compared to today's full frame cameras like the Sony A73. Let's not even get into trying to accurately focus on the eyes with a fast lens.

I still claim you cannot create a comparable light kit using a DSLR system as you can using something like the A73. It's true competitor is the 5d4...not some rebel. I looked at some of your posts and I understand you just don't like mirror less, but really you are trying to tell me a rebel based kit is compatible to a A73 or A7R3 kit.

Ive shot in plenty of dimly lit spots with Rebels. My house and clubs and studios with zero ambient lighting, just modeling lights from the strobes. Never had an issue and some of those shots in dimly lit clubs have been published in print ads in Vegas. I dont want to hijack the tread and keep posting my photos though. As I'm sure you know, photography is all about light and if you have quality lighting, you can get plenty of great shots with a Rebel camera. Only someone who doesn't know what they are doing would attempt to shoot their subject in a dimly lit room without the proper lighting.




  
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Hogloff
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Aug 08, 2018 18:54 |  #141
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Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680460 (external link)
Ive shot in plenty of dimly lit spots with Rebels. My house and clubs and studios with zero ambient lighting, just modeling lights from the strobes. Never had an issue and some of those shots in dimly lit clubs have been published in print ads in Vegas. I dont want to hijack the tread and keep posting my photos though. As I'm sure you know, photography is all about light and if you have quality lighting, you can get plenty of great shots with a Rebel camera. Only someone who doesn't know what they are doing would attempt to shoot their subject in a dimly lit room without the proper lighting.

It must be nice to be able to stage your shots or have the luxury of use strobes etc...but we ain't all so lucky. I shoot travel images and there is no such luck of getting any kind of light into the deep alleys or markets of SEA. I understand where you have full control of the lighting...then any camera will do...but please understand that many don't have the luxury.

Example shot at ISO 10,000 in early morning in order to get the required focus.


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Hogloff
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Aug 08, 2018 18:57 |  #142
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EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18680457 (external link)
Obvious strawman, is obviously a strawman.

Yes...I expected that from you. Just stating that if you want to compare cameras image quality under ideal conditions...then you can compare other features of the cameras under ideal conditions...and guess what...they all come up smelling like roses. But...move to not so ideal conditions and this is where the better cameras pull ahead.

Do you need to be told this?




  
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Mbell1975
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Aug 08, 2018 18:59 |  #143
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Hogloff wrote in post #18680464 (external link)
It must be nice to be able to stage your shots or have the luxury of use strobes etc...but we ain't all so lucky. I shoot travel images and there is no such luck of getting any kind of light into the deep alleys or markets of SEA. I understand where you have full control of the lighting...then any camera will do...but please understand that many don't have the luxury.

Example shot at ISO 10,000 in early morning in order to get the required focus.

I just posted shots where I had zero control over the lighting, not even a reflector. Ive shot on cloudy days and in bad weather too. Your argument is just going around in circles. Its fine if you think the Rebel line is some kind of toy camera but I have 15 years worth of publishings in major publications and work for well known companies that say otherwise but thanks for your input!




  
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Charlie
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Aug 08, 2018 19:12 |  #144

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680466 (external link)
I just posted shots where I had zero control over the lighting, not even a reflector. Ive shot on cloudy days and in bad weather too. Your argument is just going around in circles. Its fine if you think the Rebel line is some kind of toy camera but I have 15 years worth of publishings in major publications and work for well known companies that say otherwise but thanks for your input!

Hate to break you the news, but this thread premise is based off of FF mirrorless, not rebels.

Typically, FF cameras dont come in Rebel variety either.


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Hogloff
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Aug 08, 2018 19:37 |  #145
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EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18680433 (external link)
This.

When I finally realized that the forum's "X camera DESTROYS Y camera for X/Y/Z reasons" talk is all just opinionated hyperbole mumbo-jumbo it made the process of actually taking photos so much more enjoyable. My cameras are each more capable than anything people had just 10 years ago, yet everyone managed just fine back then. Me thinks people worry far too much over minute differences in "image quality".

But the post he quoted you on made claims over Rebel IQ being far worse than your Sony gear... he showed that the difference in IQ isn't nearly as important as you implied. Your original claim had nothing to do with any other conditions.

Which rebel and which 7D? Canon's old 18mp sensor was severely lacking in high ISO, from everything I've seen this isn't really the case with their newer APS-C sensors. We're talking about at most a 2 stop advantage for a modern FF... for many/most users it's not worth fretting over.


Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680466 (external link)
I just posted shots where I had zero control over the lighting, not even a reflector. Ive shot on cloudy days and in bad weather too. Your argument is just going around in circles. Its fine if you think the Rebel line is some kind of toy camera but I have 15 years worth of publishings in major publications and work for well known companies that say otherwise but thanks for your input!

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680460 (external link)
Ive shot in plenty of dimly lit spots with Rebels. My house and clubs and studios with zero ambient lighting, just modeling lights from the strobes. Never had an issue and some of those shots in dimly lit clubs have been published in print ads in Vegas. I dont want to hijack the tread and keep posting my photos though. As I'm sure you know, photography is all about light and if you have quality lighting, you can get plenty of great shots with a Rebel camera. Only someone who doesn't know what they are doing would attempt to shoot their subject in a dimly lit room without the proper lighting.

You've shot under cloudy days...man that must be challenging!!!




  
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Mbell1975
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Aug 08, 2018 20:03 |  #146
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Hogloff wrote in post #18680478 (external link)
You've shot under cloudy days...man that must be challenging!!!

What lighting conditions do you consider challenging? We are shooting two different things. Your boats do not have to be lit and properly exposed compared to the background, you are not working with wide apertures, uneven lighting conditions shooting from shade into bright sunlight etc...Its flat lighting, its a row of boats Not trying to be rude but there is nothing about the lighting conditions, subject, or anything in that shot thats complicated or challenging. Apples to oranges.




  
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Bear ­ Dale
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Aug 08, 2018 20:03 |  #147

Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680299 (external link)
The jump from film to digital was massive and FAR more advantageous for the shooter from the workflow standpoint alone as the internet was just taking off. The jump from DSLR to mirrorless is negligible in comparison and vastly overrated.

My thoughts as well.


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Aug 08, 2018 20:06 |  #148

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18680433 (external link)
This.

When I finally realized that the forum's "X camera DESTROYS Y camera for X/Y/Z reasons" talk is all just opinionated hyperbole mumbo-jumbo it made the process of actually taking photos so much more enjoyable. My cameras are each more capable than anything people had just 10 years ago, yet everyone managed just fine back then. Me thinks people worry far too much over minute differences in "image quality".

bw! We've got it so good these days: we're so used to complaining about this two year old APS or FF sensor not being up to snuff of the latest and greatest....but everything from all popular brands have very capable stills cameras that far exceed your iPhone snapshooter. Funny aside, I have some of my prints at work, and a coworker started asking about my photography and asked if any of my photos were taken with an iPhone. OK, yes, under certain conditions an iPhone can take good photos with the right lighting. Anyway, folks tend to forget that before digital, we were limited to film emulsions....and they only had minute advancements through the years.


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Hogloff
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Aug 08, 2018 20:41 |  #149
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Mbell1975 wrote in post #18680490 (external link)
What lighting conditions do you consider challenging? We are shooting two different things. Your boats do not have to be lit and properly exposed compared to the background, you are not working with wide apertures, uneven lighting conditions shooting from shade into bright sunlight etc...Its flat lighting, its a row of boats Not trying to be rude but there is nothing about the lighting conditions, subject, or anything in that shot thats complicated or challenging. Apples to oranges.

Let's not forget this is early morning and shot at 10,000 ISO. Do you feel your Rebel can deal with 10,000 ISO? Does your Rebel even go up to 10,000 ISO?:lol:




  
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Aug 08, 2018 20:45 |  #150

If we compare APS-C to full frame it still has that rift. As modern day sensor technology improves both formats benefit. The Full frame still has an edge over APS-C. That difference still is quite beneficial in giving that extra headroom that some demand.

Definitely a modern aps-c can outperform a canon 5dmk2 sensor. The modern aps-c still cannot play on the same level as a modern FF. If you feel an aps-c meets your IQ demands and you can easily obtain great IQ that's all that matter to the individual.

If you owned a Sony A7r3 you can shoot crop mode and still retain 18.67 MP. Shoot FF you get full 42MP. This is something quite remarkable in shooting with a 16-35mm zoom and gain extra reach in crop mode while retaining close to 18.67MP files. You cannot do that with 1 single mirrored body.

If I was shooting professionally for a living I'd be using FF as an overall performer. Alot of headroom for human error or just simply enjoy the higher performance sensor. Features is something you can either use or not.....

Everyone can pick and choose their tools.


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Does mirrorless do anything for you?
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