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FORUMS Other Digital Cameras Fuji Digital Cameras 
Thread started 06 Jan 2013 (Sunday) 14:29
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Furlan
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Aug 17, 2018 15:18 |  #8161

kirkt wrote in post #18686133 (external link)
This is what defines a professional, not the camera.

kirk

I agree plus some creative skills. You can give some jerk a Hasselblad while a true pro uses a i-phone guess who will deliver.




  
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kirkt
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Aug 17, 2018 15:51 |  #8162

benji25 wrote in post #18686140 (external link)
There is a difference between defining the professional, and defining professional level gear.

Fortunately there are many different types of professional photographers. Also fortunately there is a lot of different gear for those people to use. I just think fuji is a little less proven in regards to durability and time tested reliability. It doesn't mean it isn't professional gear. It just means for some professional uses it might not be the best choice.

There are definitely distinctions amongst various grades of equipment, and working pros know what works for them through experience for sure. We are not in disagreement.

However, labeling something "professional" is not to let working professionals know that this doodad is for them - it is a marketing move to encourage non-professionals to spend money on more expensive things. Labeling something professional does not make the user an instant professional, but marketers will try to convince you otherwise so you spend more money ("hey hobbyist, this is what the pros use - if you buy it, your images will become more pro!"). It is not a bad thing to have something appeal to one's sense of quality and awesomeness, but the marketing-fu is strong in a competitive market.

kirk


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F2Bthere
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Aug 17, 2018 16:30 |  #8163

There comes a point when you realize that the conversation has degenerated to "my dad can beat up your dad," "no, my dad can beat up your dad."

Honestly, there are no facts or opinions being expressed at this point which have not already been discussed earlier in the thread.

If we must go on, can we at least change to medium format cameras? Cause I'm damn sure the GFX and latest Phase can both whoop any of the cameras mentioned in any way which matters to me ;).


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Aug 17, 2018 17:05 |  #8164

F2Bthere wrote in post #18686180 (external link)
There comes a point when you realize that the conversation has degenerated to "my dad can beat up your dad," "no, my dad can beat up your dad."

Honestly, there are no facts or opinions being expressed at this point which have not already been discussed earlier in the thread.

If we must go on, can we at least change to medium format cameras? Cause I'm damn sure the GFX and latest Phase can both whoop any of the cameras mentioned in any way which matters to me ;).

ok guys...break it up... stop comparing focal lengths... :-P


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kirkt
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Aug 17, 2018 18:10 |  #8165

F2Bthere wrote in post #18686180 (external link)
There comes a point when you realize that the conversation has degenerated to "my dad can beat up your dad," "no, my dad can beat up your dad."

Honestly, there are no facts or opinions being expressed at this point which have not already been discussed earlier in the thread.

If we must go on, can we at least change to medium format cameras? Cause I'm damn sure the GFX and latest Phase can both whoop any of the cameras mentioned in any way which matters to me ;).

Ha! I'm really more interested in the marketing aspects of all of this nonsense more than anything else. I hope it does not come off like I'm arguing about anything.

kirk


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AlanU
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Aug 17, 2018 19:07 |  #8166

05Xrunner wrote in post #18685978 (external link)
I know exactly how drag races at night are..been to enough. But the issue is you post a photo of static subjects and say you demanded high shutter speeds and need the 5D4. If thats the case then you should have posted cars actually moving in the race. Or did those come out like crap and you dont want to show them? so this photo proves nothing that pretty much any camera could capture.

I will have to look. I concentrated on the VW event so I didn't take many photos of the "Outlaw class". I use to launch with 1-1.5ft wheelies with my 1965 VW street car but these guys got no air :( at this event. No point taking photos of a launch if they are just spinning their tires with no wheelies. 1/500 really isn't considered a fast shutter speed. If these cars actually did wheelies like I use to do, I'd be using my 16-35 or 24-70 and taking side profile photos up close so my speedlight can stop action. I really could have lowered my shutter speed and lowered my iso. Issue is you never know what will happen since the track was packed and they only had about 5 runs that night so time is tight when they are up!

Why don’t you bring your Fuji gear and sign a waiver as a professional photographer and start taking Night photos at the drags. If you go to enough drag races I’d love to see results with no prime lens using a fuji in the lighting conditions I took late in the evening. Talk is certainly easy ........ I will say it was not easy to actually shoot this pitch dark environment. I chose gear that is better than my Fuji for the situation I was in.

Xrunner, I guess you've never used a nikon D850 or 5dmk4 in the mirrored world. You can't even compare those camera's to your 7dmk2 you use to use. I know my 80D could not pull of those clean images at the track easily in the evening. If I used my 80D with my 85Lmk2 I would be able to some clean shots but very little versatility. Rent a 5dmk4 or a Sony A9 and get back to us on the difference in performance to our X-t2 WE OWN. As I mentioned I chose a different system that I own because I know it performs much better in certain situations.

You've never posted car photos in the pitch darkness. It's easy peasy to take photos of moving cars in good light. Even my Iphone 8+ can manage photos like that LOL!!!! This is a photo any camera can take including my iphone or X-t2 ;)

I can take action shots all day long with my X-t2 with no effort. My point is selecting gear for a specific reason.

ISO 20,000


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This is M&H slicks that are street legal too. This is a launch with no air but you can see the wheel transfer of power and front unloading. This is reason why I see no point risking shots launching as there is no wheelies.


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AlanU
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Aug 17, 2018 19:10 |  #8167

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18685995 (external link)
WTF is a professional camera anyway, is it the one I'm using to take the shot? No need to answer that.

I use Fuji professionally and have done for the last few years, haven't experienced any lockups (well one but that was a dodgy 3rd party battery and not the camera). I have read that some others have alright, with the X-T2 and X-H1 but I mostly shoot with X-PRO2's so nothing bad there.

I've found Fuji to be spot on consistent shoot after shoot, there is no way I'd risk ruining a shoot for a client because I thought the camera is not going to preform and the client doesn't care about the camera used anyway, not that they'll ever know what camera unless I bill out something to them. The DR of the camera is clearly up there, within half a stop of a Sony's 135 sensor - that's amazing but still they are all piddly when you plonk down a proper full frame camera and work those images up  :p

I do love all this comparing Fuji with their little sensor to the bigger 135 ones. Says a lot to me but I couldn't watch that vid - I hate those comparisons.

As for shooting cars at night with Fuji I think if you go look at a how a professional photographer manages to get the shots at night that be of benefit to you. You know the kind who uses his Fuji cameras to produce the official imagery for one of the worlds biggest night time races, races that cost millions to run a car in. So I guess Fuji can do the job there or perhaps it's the photographer and he is just risking his contract be shooting with a hobbist camera system... either way the shots look amazing.

I'm [extra] grumpy today as the roof of my office collapsed yesterday & now it's raining and the weekend and I'm having to work at home and the kids are running about. Least my lovely wife just placed some beer down in front of me. No gear damage thankfully as it was all cased up and the roofed missed it somehow. Sigh.

Sorry to hear about your office.......

Does the Fuji photographer have a portfolio displaying ISO settings?


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Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
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Aug 17, 2018 19:21 |  #8168

AlanU wrote in post #18686297 (external link)
I will have to look. I concentrated on the VW event so I didn't take many photos of the "Outlaw class". I use to launch with 1-1.5ft wheelies with my 1965 VW street car but these guys got no air :( at this event. No point taking photos of a launch if they are just spinning their tires with no wheelies. 1/500 really isn't considered a fast shutter speed. If these cars actually did wheelies like I use to do, I'd be using my 16-35 or 24-70 and taking side profile photos up close so my speedlight can stop action. I really could have lowered my shutter speed and lowered my iso. Issue is you never know what will happen since the track was packed and they only had about 5 runs that night so time is tight when they are up!

Why don’t you bring your Fuji gear and sign a waiver as a professional photographer and start taking Night photos at the drags. If you go to enough drag races I’d love to see results with no prime lens using a fuji in the lighting conditions I took late in the evening. Talk is certainly easy ........ I will say it was not easy to actually shoot this pitch dark environment. I chose gear that is better than my Fuji for the situation I was in.

Xrunner, I guess you've never used a nikon D850 or 5dmk4 in the mirrored world. You can't even compare those camera's to your 7dmk2 you use to use. I know my 80D could not pull of those clean images at the track easily in the evening. If I used my 80D with my 85Lmk2 I would be able to some clean shots but very little versatility. Rent a 5dmk4 or a Sony A9 and get back to us on the difference in performance to our X-t2 WE OWN. As I mentioned I chose a different system that I own because I know it performs much better in certain situations.

You've never posted car photos in the pitch darkness. It's easy peasy to take photos of moving cars in good light. Even my Iphone 8+ can manage photos like that LOL!!!! This is a photo any camera can take including my iphone or X-t2 ;)

I can take action shots all day long with my X-t2 with no effort. My point is selecting gear for a specific reason.

ISO 20,000

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forum: Fuji Digital Cameras


This is M&H slicks that are street legal too. This is a launch with no air but you can see the wheel transfer of power and front unloading. This is reason why I see no point risking shots launching as there is no wheelies.
thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by AlanU in
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You really don't understand that you just proved both his and my point, do you?

There was no reason for you to be at 1/400s. Especially if your intention wasn't even to capture the launch anyway. Furthermore, you posted another example that has absolutely nothing to do with your argument... how does an ISO400 shot in broad daylight go any further toward proving your point?

So far, none of the shots you showed us from the VW event were in "pitch dark", so I'm failing to see your point.


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AlanU
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Aug 17, 2018 19:50 |  #8169

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18686313 (external link)
You really don't understand that you just proved both his and my point, do you?

There was no reason for you to be at 1/400s. Especially if your intention wasn't even to capture the launch anyway. Furthermore, you posted another example that has absolutely nothing to do with your argument... how does an ISO400 shot in broad daylight go any further toward proving your point?

So far, none of the shots you showed us from the VW event were in "pitch dark", so I'm failing to see your point.

Looks pretty dark to me.......

Before commenting Lucas please attempt such type of photography and please share. I truly would love to see the type of photo you can get with an f/2.8 zoom in low light. The fact that I got respectable usable images at 1/500ss attempting to stop action.....I'm pleased.

If you are making a reference to the capabilities of "OUR" Fuji system please analyze your gymnastic photo you posted. The image you've provided in a gymnastics environment displays a file that has fallen apart. It would look fine on a 5x7 print but that is clearly display pushing the sensor to the extreme max but remarkable from an aps-c sensor. Poor image quality at iso 12800 and why f/5.0 and 1/1000 SS? That image taken with a Sony A9 or D850 would have looked much different with much cleaner digital raw file.

The decision to stop taking the "launch" was a quick decision. That was the last set of runs I wanted to take as I had to leave due to overnight turn around edits. You will notice very few people take photos of late evening drag races due to the difficulty and demands on camera gear.

ISO 400 photo could have been done with my iphone 8+. That type of light is effortless with any camera that Xrunner can do with his Sony point and shoot! The other photos discussed is not as simple. Point of comparison of easy to difficult.


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Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Aug 17, 2018 19:51 as a reply to  @ AlanU's post |  #8170

Thanks Alan, hopefully fixed by next week.

No he doesn't spout the meta on the images.


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AlanU
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Aug 17, 2018 19:54 |  #8171

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18686333 (external link)
Thanks Alan, hopefully fixed by next week.

No he doesn't spout the meta on the images.

I really do wish I had a point of reference. I seldom see low light images taken in such brutal environments at the track.

I am not a drag racing photog as I haven't done that in years. I think the settings I selected were not ideal but I definitely did not react by changing my settings fast enough.


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Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
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Aug 17, 2018 20:00 |  #8172

JR shoots this kind of thing at night on the track

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Aug 17, 2018 20:23 |  #8173

If we want to talk about shooting in almost dark situations. I had my XT1 at Disney with me in April and it did perfectly fine on the dark ass Disney dark rides.
I cant wait in 37days to go back and have my XT2 kit now.

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/241N​xEo  (external link) JOND4803 (external link) by jon duboy (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/912/27068345927_efc6282fb5_b.jpg
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So just showing like the photos you posted. Dont need a 5D4 to get quality dark images that have little movement. Hell my XT1 ISo was on par with my 7D2 and the XT2 high ISO is better than what my 7DII had so I would imagine its up there with the 5D3 in terms of noise performance. So when I go back in a few weeks I wont be afraid to crank it past 6400

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Aug 17, 2018 21:53 |  #8174

AlanU wrote in post #18686332 (external link)
Looks pretty dark to me.......

Before commenting Lucas please attempt such type of photography and please share. I truly would love to see the type of photo you can get with an f/2.8 zoom in low light. The fact that I got respectable usable images at 1/500ss attempting to stop action.....I'm pleased.

If you are making a reference to the capabilities of "OUR" Fuji system please analyze your gymnastic photo you posted. The image you've provided in a gymnastics environment displays a file that has fallen apart. It would look fine on a 5x7 print but that is clearly display pushing the sensor to the extreme max but remarkable from an aps-c sensor. Poor image quality at iso 12800 and why f/5.0 and 1/1000 SS? That image taken with a Sony A9 or D850 would have looked much different with much cleaner digital raw file.

The decision to stop taking the "launch" was a quick decision. That was the last set of runs I wanted to take as I had to leave due to overnight turn around edits. You will notice very few people take photos of late evening drag races due to the difficulty and demands on camera gear.

ISO 400 photo could have been done with my iphone 8+. That type of light is effortless with any camera that Xrunner can do with his Sony point and shoot! The other photos discussed is not as simple. Point of comparison of easy to difficult.

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Hosted photo: posted by AlanU in
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I've shot in plenty of similar situations. To be blunt, shooting cars that line up and wait for a turn on a straight line of road and get counted down by lights that any spectator can watch seems rather easy to shoot compared to a wedding or most other night event, but I'd be happy to see further examples from you for why that assumption may be wrong ;)

That shot was just a recent example, it was at f5 because it was with my longest available lens, the 55-200mm (I must've bumped the aperture ring when zooming) and I was shooting people tumbling toward the camera (as you can see behind the subject) with auto ISO, I tend not worry about the ISO when shooting action and just make sure the shutter is fast enough. Perhaps you should take your own advice and try shooting gymnastics in a dimly lit gym with strong back lighting to see how you fare ;)

Here's why 1/1000s

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/29Jb​xjz  (external link) DSCF8713 (external link) by Lucas (external link), on Flickr

Still waiting for an example of a shot you couldn't have gotten with a Fuji camera... I suspect I'll be waiting quite a while.

Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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AlanU
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Aug 17, 2018 23:09 |  #8175

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18686384 (external link)
I've shot in plenty of similar situations. To be blunt, shooting cars that line up and wait for a turn on a straight line of road and get counted down by lights that any spectator can watch seems rather easy to shoot compared to a wedding or most other night event, but I'd be happy to see further examples from you for why that assumption may be wrong ;)

That shot was just a recent example, it was at f5 because it was with my longest available lens, the 55-200mm (I must've bumped the aperture ring when zooming) and I was shooting people tumbling toward the camera (as you can see behind the subject) with auto ISO, I tend not worry about the ISO when shooting action and just make sure the shutter is fast enough. Perhaps you should take your own advice and try shooting gymnastics in a dimly lit gym with strong back lighting to see how you fare ;)

Here's why 1/1000s
QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/29Jb​xjz  (external link) DSCF8713 (external link) by Lucas (external link), on Flickr

Still waiting for an example of a shot you couldn't have gotten with a Fuji camera... I suspect I'll be waiting quite a while.

In this type of photography I wouldn't be using my Fuji gear for gymnastics..........I am quite critical to images that have fallen apart in low light. This is one reason why I shoot with the A7iii and 5dmk4 for demanding low light scenarios. You will not see many images that have fallen apart with my Fuji because I do not select Fuji in low demanding light.

Your tolerance to noise and IQ is very different to mine. I will say the Fuji Aps-c is a notch better in low light than my previous 80D except the Canon does not add worms to the image. The 55-200 is known for a nervous bokeh even more than my Canon 70-200 f/2.8IS mk2 and Fuji 50-140 f/2.8. If you uplifted the shadows in the image you would actually show some detail on the subject's crushed black clothing and the noise present in the bokeh. I will say the Fuji does a great job at iso 5000 for aps-c.

Shooting cars at the track is definitely less stress than my hired events photography. However cars lining up consecutively leaves a tight time frame to shoot especially when you want to change your perspective.

This is what I use my Fuji for...... I just have zero tolerance to raw files falling apart. This is why I love fuji in good light.

I decided to blow the dust off the 50-140mm.


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5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
Sony A7iii w/ Sigma MC-11 adapter | GM16-35 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | GM70-200 f/2.8 |Sigma Art 24 f/1.4 | Godox V860iiS

  
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