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Thread started 26 Aug 2018 (Sunday) 12:45
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7DII issues... and maybe I've found something? Thoughts please.

 
Mathmans
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Post edited 6 months ago by Mathmans. (2 edits in all)
     
Aug 27, 2018 08:45 as a reply to  @ post 18693968 |  #16

Hmmm; usually when shooting portraits you would focus on the part of the subject, which needs to be sharp – in this case on the closest eye. I dont think there is a lot of contrast on the nose or between the eyes.
Anyhow;
I would first clean the contacts on all the lenses and on the camera. A microfiber clothe and a drop or two of Deoxit Gold would do the trick.
The next step would be to make some tests in good light with good focusing target at distance 50x focal lenght with camera on tripod. Could be that the camera just needs some AF focus adjust.
I would also try some other lenses if they give me the same problem. Could be the lens, could be the camera or could be combination of specific lens and the camera.

Still can't figure it out why on earth would you need a screwdirver set, but I have a feeling you won't take into account my advices so I have no idea, why I bother writting this.


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john ­ crossley
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Aug 27, 2018 09:10 |  #17

ksbal wrote in post #18693267 (external link)
To say I was unhappy would be an understatement. center cross point on the nose or one af point above between the eyes and I get this back?

Why are you focusing on the nose?


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Post edited 6 months ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Aug 27, 2018 09:45 as a reply to  @ Mathmans's post |  #18

You need a screwdriver because not all Canon DSLRs have a tabbed focus screen carrier that you just depress and have it swing open. Some Canon owners understand that screws must be removed to open that area up.


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ksbal
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Post edited 6 months ago by ksbal.
     
Aug 27, 2018 11:06 as a reply to  @ john crossley's post |  #19

I guess I should have specified the bridge of nose, between the eyes, or the eye.

my dof has been enough before this wasn't an issue - 8-9 inches on a crop camera at f4.5 at 10 feet.


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ksbal
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Post edited 6 months ago by ksbal. (2 edits in all)
     
Aug 27, 2018 11:15 |  #20

Mathmans wrote in post #18693989 (external link)
Hmmm; usually when shooting portraits you would focus on the part of the subject, which needs to be sharp – in this case on the closest eye. I dont think there is a lot of contrast on the nose or between the eyes.
Anyhow;
I would first clean the contacts on all the lenses and on the camera. A microfiber clothe and a drop or two of Deoxit Gold would do the trick.
The next step would be to make some tests in good light with good focusing target at distance 50x focal lenght with camera on tripod. Could be that the camera just needs some AF focus adjust.
I would also try some other lenses if they give me the same problem. Could be the lens, could be the camera or could be combination of specific lens and the camera.

Still can't figure it out why on earth would you need a screwdirver set, but I have a feeling you won't take into account my advices so I have no idea, why I bother writting this.

I have cleaned the contacts on both the camera and the lens. (after those portrait images were so bad)

I will try both the 100L and the 24-100 again, both have been on a different camera and behaved fine. I'll be testing at around 16 feet, correct?

Well, I could use a hammer to open it up but generaly that makes it harder to put together again... :-D :-D

All information is appreciated. :-) I've been hanging around here a while and appreciate the knowledgebase that exists here.


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Mathmans
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Aug 27, 2018 13:40 as a reply to  @ ksbal's post |  #21

For a second I thought you want to unscrew the bottom of the camera and try to adjust the focusing module with three screws.
It won't hurt if you blow some air on the focusing module with a rocket blower. Perhaps there are some dust bunnies on the lenses of the focusing module.
When I mention the focusing module I mean the AF module on the bottom of the camera chamber below the mirror. Check the image at the link below:
https://www.dpreview.c​om/forums/post/5508418​2?image=1 (external link)

So I guess it's the camera if all those lenses are working fine on your other body.
Some pros check focus befor every major shooting and do AF focus adjust if needed.
Usually you would do the tests at about 50x focal lenght. For your 24-100 I would do the tests for 24mm at a distance 24mmx50=1.2meters (about 4 feet) and for 100mm at a distance 100mmx50=5meters (about 16 feet).
But the best is to test the lens at a distance you usually use the lens. You just need a good light and a good target with a ruler and a tripod.
There are lots of tutorials on the net how to do ''AF focus adjust''.
Well; good luck with your test. Don't forget to report the results.


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Aug 27, 2018 13:42 |  #22

Make some test shots of a contrasty flat subject with the camera mounted on a tripod.
View the shots at 100%, not greater. If you view the shots at greater than 100% you are looking at artifacts that the processing software is adding




  
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Post edited 6 months ago by Wilt. (4 edits in all)
     
Aug 28, 2018 00:51 |  #23

ksbal wrote in post #18694084 (external link)
I guess I should have specified the bridge of nose, between the eyes, or the eye.

my dof has been enough before this wasn't an issue - 8-9 inches on a crop camera at f4.5 at 10 feet.

But, I presume (perhaps wrongly) that you know that ordinarily the DOF calculated assumes that


  1. the full area of the frame is enlarged to 8x10" size for evaluation of 'sufficiently sharp' to fool the viewer's brain...and NOT that a small section is enlarged substantially as you have done for 'in focus' evaluation.
  2. the viewer's visual acuity is assumed to be far worse than your optometrist corrects your vision with eyeglass prescription of 20/20 vision...so most folks will perceive 'not sharp enough to be in focus' rather than what the DOF calculation says it should be 'sharp enough'


20/20 vision DOF zone with 85mm f/5.6 at 10' is 3.66", but enlarged 4x more and viewed at the same viewing distance cuts DOF zone to a mere 0.9", only allowing 0.46" behind the actual plane of focus to be deemed 'sharp enough to fool the brain'

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Post edited 6 months ago by clipper_from_oz. (4 edits in all)
     
Aug 28, 2018 10:13 |  #24

ksbal wrote in post #18693968 (external link)
Now, since I plan to replace with the 7D3 when it comes out.. maybe after I get the new one I'll pull out the old one and get out my small screwdriver set..... :) ;-)a :-P :lol:

Thank you for that link btw, I seem to remember coming across it before, saved me a bunch of time trying to find it again.

Hope to do some tests tonight, and I'll be sure to do live view as well. Maybe it has sorted itself out, at least I hope so. Tripod will reduce a lot of variables.


Well if you do decide to get those screw drivers out let me know will you as Ive always wondered how much that adjustment makes to the AF but Ive never been game to try!! :)....

.BTW the look of that head shot sharpness of yours so much reminded me of a couple I took with my 5dsr last year that had me really worried I had a similar issue . And like you I had shots either side that were ok! Which made it even more confusing ....I was lucky in that a mate of mine had been through exactly the same thing on his 5DSR and he suggested I do a thorough tripod mounted tests with a lensalign target tethered to a laptop etc etc. And everything checked out spot on for me as it had for him. Not even any MA needed it was that sharp . And perfectly sharp across all settings . And I also had similar issue with a new Fuji high density cropped sensor camera I bought last year ( X-t20) !!....And like the 5DSR it had a few frames together that looked soft with crappy detail again similar to your shot and my 5DSR shots . And sure enough on the tripod again with the lens align target and nothing wrong.. And this was mirrorless camera so couldnt blame the AF and VF mirror setting this time as there was none!.....Im sure in both my test cases it was either very slight camera shake , slight miss of the AF due to lighting conditions or one I didn't know about until I saw it posted somewhere and that was lens IS interfering with AF. But that IS issue was to do with the Fuji lens/AF and a known issue and not the Canon

Hope you get to the bottom of it... or even better.... dont get to the bottom of it and let me know how what those little screwdriver settings do to the AF calibration :) :)

Cheers


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Post edited 6 months ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Aug 28, 2018 10:26 |  #25

That link was for the Nikon D70, and some of the older Canon bodies had something you could access with a very small modified hex key, but that doesn't work on the newer bodies, I haven't been able to find anything like that since perhaps the 40D days, 5D, XTi models.


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Post edited 6 months ago by ksbal.
     
Aug 28, 2018 10:48 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #26

Well, thats a bummer, but still good info on how it works and I will get to it.

Did some quick testing last night.. seems focus may not be perfect but at least 'acceptable' ... but I need to print off a good target and get the tripod out still, Life is getting in my way... But I will get to it and get to the bottom as much as I can. I did fire off a few in live view, vs one af point but I dont' understand all the focus settings for live view yet so not to apples and apples for comparing.


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Aug 28, 2018 10:50 as a reply to  @ clipper_from_oz's post |  #27

Be nice if it had been camera shake, but I am 100% sure it isn't, not to mention the fact that that top shot is lit by speedlights, and I was killing the ambient in the room, so... there's that.

But we've had that mention of low battery and OOF shots, .. and I may try to re-create that, maybe battery contacts need to be cleaned or something...


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Aug 28, 2018 11:36 |  #28

Perhaps I missed it, but are you using spot AF? That is my go-to AF point mode when doing portraiture.


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Post edited 6 months ago by Wilt. (7 edits in all)
     
Aug 28, 2018 13:27 |  #29

ksbal wrote in post #18694878 (external link)
Well, thats a bummer, but still good info on how it works and I will get to it.

Did some quick testing last night.. seems focus may not be perfect but at least 'acceptable' ... but I need to print off a good target and get the tripod out still, Life is getting in my way... But I will get to it and get to the bottom as much as I can. I did fire off a few in live view, vs one af point but I dont' understand all the focus settings for live view yet so not to apples and apples for comparing.

Print to 8x10" (8x12 for the FF/APS-C format) size, or view full area of frame (not '>100%') on the monitor to evaluate 'in focus'
...if you enlarge on the monitor by 2X (above the size of the subject as seen on 8x10) that cuts the effective DOF zone in HALF,
...if you enlarge on the monitor by 4X (above the size of the subject as seen on 8x10) that really cuts the effective depth of the DOF zone in QUARTER.
...if you enlarge on the monitor by 16X (above the size of the subject as seen on 8x10) that really cuts the effective depth of the DOF zone in one-sixteenth!

The theoretical 20/20 vision DOF zone with 85mm f/5.6 at 10' goes from 3.66" deep, to 0.228" deep when the subject eyes are 16X larger than if they were seen on 8x10 print.


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Aug 28, 2018 16:30 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #30

I'm always in spot af Teamspeed, that joystick gets a workout! :)


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7DII issues... and maybe I've found something? Thoughts please.
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