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Thread started 26 Aug 2018 (Sunday) 12:45
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7DII issues... and maybe I've found something? Thoughts please.

 
Wilt
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Post edited 6 months ago by Wilt.
     
Aug 29, 2018 22:34 |  #46

Folks obsess about accuracy of focus, oftentimes needlessly.

Keep in mind that Canon has said in the past that there are two levels of precision - 'normal' which is within one depth of focus for the attached lens at max aperture, and 'high precision' which is within 1/3 of the depth of focus for the attached lens at max aperture.
Set to 85mm, the 'normal' precision with f/4 is

(manufacturer standard) 12.6" deep, or about 6" in front and 6.6" behind the plane of focus
(20/20 vision) 4.2" deep, or about 2" in front and 2.2" behind the plane of focus

Set to 85mm, the 'high precision' using center cross-point AF with f/4 is

(manufacturer standard) 4.1" deep, or about 2" in front and 2.1" behind the plane of focus
(20/20 vision) 4.2" deep, or about 2" in front and 2.2" behind the plane of focus

In your opening photos, the eyes were not centered, so 'high precisin' would not apply if you selected a decentral AF point.
Or did you focus-recompose, inducing some error?


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Aug 30, 2018 02:18 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #47

I really don't see a point to analyse this portrait over and over again. It's blurred. Period.
There could be bunch of reasons why it's blurred. I can give you a few:
-user error
-not enough contrast
-AF focus adjust
-dirty contacts
-focusing module is slowly failing (happened with my camera)

The point of testing the equipment is very simple – you test it to see, if it's working as it should.
Then if something goes wrong (like blurry portrait) you know it's your error – for example shaky hands or you've pushed the equipment beyond it's limits (like focusing point didn't have enough contrast to reliably grab the focus).

Well; good luck with your camera. I hope you'll figure it out.


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ksbal
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Post edited 6 months ago by ksbal. (2 edits in all)
     
Aug 30, 2018 08:21 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #48

How about that image is after cropping, and the af point was over her and was a cross type and and no I didn't focus and re-compose.

Sorry to be a bother. I'll stop posting.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18696174 (external link)
I would use One Shot with that. Sometimes lens chatter back and forth in AI Servo, for this though, I am sure I would have just hoped that nobody was moving.

Was I in servo? that would definitely be a mistake on my part as usually I'm in one shot for portraits.


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Post edited 6 months ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Aug 30, 2018 08:51 as a reply to  @ ksbal's post |  #49

It sounded like it if it kept moving focus, but I may have misunderstood what you had previously stated. AI Servo has a tendency to do that, more so with different Canon models and lenses. One shot would snap to focus and not move any more while you have the AF button down.


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Aug 30, 2018 08:58 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #50

I will check that when I get home. low battery + servo mode.. maybe that was my problem.


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Post edited 6 months ago by clipper_from_oz. (3 edits in all)
     
Aug 30, 2018 12:16 |  #51

ksbal wrote in post #18696448 (external link)
I will check that when I get home. low battery + servo mode.. maybe that was my problem.

remember to use single shot centre focus point for any target test on tripod

cheers


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Aug 30, 2018 12:23 |  #52

Wilt wrote in post #18696246 (external link)
Folks obsess about accuracy of focus, oftentimes needlessly.

Keep in mind that Canon has said in the past that there are two levels of precision - 'normal' which is within one depth of focus for the attached lens at max aperture, and 'high precision' which is within 1/3 of the depth of focus for the attached lens at max aperture.
Set to 85mm, the 'normal' precision with f/4 is

(manufacturer standard) 12.6" deep, or about 6" in front and 6.6" behind the plane of focus
(20/20 vision) 4.2" deep, or about 2" in front and 2.2" behind the plane of focus

Set to 85mm, the 'high precision' using center cross-point AF with f/4 is

(manufacturer standard) 4.1" deep, or about 2" in front and 2.1" behind the plane of focus
(20/20 vision) 4.2" deep, or about 2" in front and 2.2" behind the plane of focus

In your opening photos, the eyes were not centered, so 'high precisin' would not apply if you selected a decentral AF point.
Or did you focus-recompose, inducing some error?


The image simply looks off and below par


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Aug 30, 2018 14:33 |  #53

Have you considered the possibility that the model may have swayed slightly?


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Post edited 6 months ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Aug 30, 2018 16:14 |  #54

clipper_from_oz wrote in post #18696555 (external link)
The image simply looks off and below par

My point was NOT to illustrate what is right or wrong with the original photos posted in this thread, my point was to INFORM readers as to the criteria that Canon tries to match when you send in your camera and gripe, "It has focus error". If your own criteria for judging focus is tighter than the Canon spec, all the power to you for trying to exceed factory spec.

So when you evaluate a target at 10' with 85mm f/4 max aperture, (20/20 vision) 4.2" deep DOF, or about 2" in front and 2.2" behind the plane of focus and anything that is within that spec is 'factory spec', not 'perfect focus'


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Post edited 6 months ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Aug 30, 2018 17:01 as a reply to  @ Wilt's post |  #55

How really do we know what Canon does to confirm equipment is within limits? My guess is that it is a fit automated process with the camera hooked to a test bench and special software, pointed at a proprietary target. Of course only those that work in the lab really know.

Doesn't really matter in this situation because it is clear AF was off.


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Aug 30, 2018 22:14 |  #56

ksbal wrote in post #18696448 (external link)
I will check that when I get home. low battery + servo mode.. maybe that was my problem.

I'm a little bit confused by all the back and forth in the thread. You indicated your concern that you might have accidentally damaged or misaligned something during a cleaning since problems began occurring sometime afterwards. It's hard to believe that you were getting great shots before and all of a sudden don't know how to use your own camera. So as well meaning as many of the comments have been perhaps you really need to consider sending it into Canon for an evaluation.


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Aug 31, 2018 06:15 |  #57

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18696444 (external link)
It sounded like it if it kept moving focus, but I may have misunderstood what you had previously stated. AI Servo has a tendency to do that, more so with different Canon models and lenses. One shot would snap to focus and not move any more while you have the AF button down.


I went back and double checked, I was in one shot af... which is another reason this was so out of the ordinary for the camera, something this out of focus should not have even let the shutter snap, so figuring out the cause has been important to me. All the normal stuff that causes a blur issue I was pretty sure was not the problem, and so I posted here to try and puzzle it out.


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ksbal
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Post edited 6 months ago by ksbal.
     
Aug 31, 2018 06:35 |  #58

mwsilver wrote in post #18696902 (external link)
I'm a little bit confused by all the back and forth in the thread. You indicated your concern that you might have accidentally damaged or misaligned something during a cleaning since problems began occurring sometime afterwards. It's hard to believe that you were getting great shots before and all of a sudden don't know how to use your own camera. So as well meaning as many of the comments have been perhaps you really need to consider sending it into Canon for an evaluation.


This is a pretty good summary. I wanted to understand why I had such a series of badly out of focus and some slightly out of focus issues from the same set, out of a camera that hadn't performed that badly -ever- in a portrait session.

I had cleaned the sensor, so thought I may have jacked something up in the camera.
I was set on the strait and narrow on what does and does not affect AF performance with respect to the focus screen, mirror, and other internals to the camera.(Thank you all!)
Subsequent testing seems to show the camera is back to where it should perform - I'm not reproducing the out of focus shots as before.
I've eliminated all the usual suspects (motion blur, AF off, movement of me or subject, plenty of dof for the image (8 inches, according to DOFmaster))

So looking back over the suggestions the battery may have been the culprit, as I do have a mix of canon and 3rd party, and some are getting up there in age.

Just in case there is any question, here is another image from the same set, where the camera normally does perform as long as the operator is paying attention.

But I'm going to say this was something transient, and since I DID change out the battery (a new canon one is in the camera now) I'm going to watch for that, as I can't reproduce the problem, at the moment. I don't plan to send the camera in, as it probably would be 'in spec' at the moment, and if I can't reproduce the problem, I don't think I can expect Canon to reproduce it.

But all of this has been worth while as I feel better there isn't anything permanently wrong with the camera, and I am pretty sure I didn't jack up the inside with my cleaning.


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ksbal
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Aug 31, 2018 06:39 |  #59

FPP wrote in post #18696614 (external link)
Have you considered the possibility that the model may have swayed slightly?

Most definitely considered it, and to be honest, usually *I* am the culprit when that is part of the problem.

But I remember taking the shots of her very clearly, and that should not have been the issue.


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7DII issues... and maybe I've found something? Thoughts please.
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