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FORUMS News & Rumors Camera Rumors and Predictions 
Thread started 31 Aug 2018 (Friday) 22:24
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Canon EOS R - First images

 
Tom ­ K.
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Aug 31, 2018 22:24 |  #1

BOOM!
https://www.canonrumor​s.com …-the-new-rf-mount-lenses/ (external link)


Please proceed, Governor.
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Bassat
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Sep 01, 2018 09:59 |  #2

I don't get it. What is the point?




  
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Snydremark
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Sep 01, 2018 10:34 |  #3

Bassat wrote in post #18697851 (external link)
I don't get it. What is the point?

The preview, or of the camera itself?


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
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juanpafer
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Sep 01, 2018 10:35 |  #4

Full frame mirrorless. Big deal.
Nice new lenses, AF -6, AF f11.
Very promising


Juan

  
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Sep 01, 2018 10:59 |  #5

The Canon-Rumors article shown says nothing about what the camera is, but according to juanpafer (above) it s a new FF Mirrorless body.

Why a new mount? What was wrong with all the hundreds of EF lenses Canon currently carries?


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juanpafer
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Sep 01, 2018 10:59 |  #6

We can probably merge this thread with this other one that is now more active

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1499776


Juan

  
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Bassat
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Post edited 5 months ago by Bassat.
     
Sep 01, 2018 11:17 |  #7

juanpafer wrote in post #18697882 (external link)
Full frame mirrorless. Big deal.
Nice new lenses, AF -6, AF f11.
Very promising

Your answer simply begs the questions:

Mirrorless. I don't get it. What's the point?

New lenses. Even larger than the old ones. How, exactly, is that a good thing?

AF @ -6EV. Do you know how dark that is? My 6D (-3EV) can focus in a 15'x20' basement, lit only by a 3.5W night light, at night. So, -6EV is possible. Who is going to find it useful to have a camera that can
focus in light you can't see in?

F/11 AF? Yippee. Now you can use a 100-400L II (or any f/5.6 lens) with a 2X TC and get autofocus. Again, both people who would actually use this can likely afford a 600mm f/4L and 1.4X III TC. Better optics, more light, better photos.

This seems like a highly specialized, small-market item to me. Then again, I never thought Windows would catch on.




  
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juanpafer
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Sep 01, 2018 12:26 |  #8

For me, AF is not overrated. If we get faster, more accurate focus in dimmer light, with more AF points, that is great! (common thing in the newer mirrorless)
A new 50 1.2 and a f2 normal zoom are exciting for me.
A 600 with a 1.4 is great... don’t understand what is your point there. Maybe it doesn’t float your boat. That’s fine. It does float mine.


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Snydremark
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Sep 01, 2018 12:27 |  #9

Bassat wrote in post #18697909 (external link)
Mirrorless. I don't get it. What's the point?

Smaller, lighter, quieter and room for more electronics/features than an SLR. Take a look at the additions to functionality added by 3rd parties in Magic Lantern; those are all software additions that moving to EVFs would allow to be made internally instead of side-loaded and used with the rear LCD. This is probably the way the market is headed in the long run; we may be looking at a similar mount transition to the FD > EF transition back in the 80s.
Don't get me wrong, *I* still have a fairly large amount of anywhere from ambivalence to active DGAF about a lot of it, but larger market forces seem likely to be driving things that way.

Bassat wrote in post #18697909 (external link)
New lenses. Even larger than the old ones. How, exactly, is that a good thing?

Not an engineer but I presume that by having a larger hole that they need to focus light through at the rear of the lens, it's easier (and commensurately cheaper) to develop brighter lenses.

Bassat wrote in post #18697909 (external link)
AF @ -6EV. Do you know how dark that is? My 6D (-3EV) can focus in a 15'x20' basement, lit only by a 3.5W night light, at night. So, -6EV is possible. Who is going to find it useful to have a camera that can
focus in light you can't see in?

You're right; -6EV is *really* damned dark. I think the draw for this is really more on the manufacturing/R&D side of things. Witness the Nikon Z announcement; if you read through the details on that release, one of the things called out is that the lenses no longer AF at their max aperture, but at the aperture that the lens is set to so that the photog gets inherent DoF preview. In order for that to even be a feature, the system's going to have to be capable of AF-ing in a covered well; imagine trying to shoot F/11 on a slightly overcast day...that's still going to be severely dark at that aperture.

Bassat wrote in post #18697909 (external link)
F/11 AF? Yippee. Now you can use a 100-400L II (or any f/5.6 lens) with a 2X TC and get autofocus. Again, both people who would actually use this can likely afford a 600mm f/4L and 1.4X III TC. Better optics, more light, better photos.

100-400II + 2x TC is still WAY cheaper than a 600 f/4L by itself; it's a really nice capability for getting more reach without sacrificing your kid's college fund for lenses :p

May not make you *care* any more, but maybe clears some stuff up at least. <shrug> Until they make major steps forward in EVFs, for example, I'm not inclined to jump into the market. current EVFs are still too slow to refresh and give a blinding headache within 2-3min. However, there is a lot of forward movement available with the format that I'll be interested in seeing come online.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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Bassat
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Post edited 5 months ago by Bassat.
     
Sep 01, 2018 12:47 as a reply to  @ Snydremark's post |  #10

Well, you are correct about the, "I don't care." part. But that doesn't mean I'm not curious about the differences. I don't ever plan to own a Maserati, but I'll look at a C&D magazine article about one. Back to the new camera.

OK, I'll give you smaller body. If the lenses are commensurately larger, the net gain is still a big fat ZERO.

I do agree that for this this to work for Canon, we are likely looking at another FD->EF type transition. For me that is a HUGE positive. EF stuff will get way less expensive way faster than it would other wise. Maybe I'll get that 600mm f/4L II IS after all!

I don't get your -6EV point. Is AF now going to be done stopped-down? That makes no sense at all.

Price of the 100-400 II plus 2X III was not my point; IQ was. No way that setup is going to out-perform a 600mm + 1.4X. And those who can afford the latter don't care about the former.

I've shot EVF, admittedly several years ago. I hope there have been significant improvements. That said, it will never equal the speed of real-time OVF.




  
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Snydremark
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Post edited 5 months ago by Snydremark.
     
Sep 01, 2018 13:39 |  #11

Bassat wrote in post #18697983 (external link)
Well, you are correct about the, "I don't care." part. But that doesn't mean I'm not curious about the differences. I don't ever plan to own a Maserati, but I'll look at a C&D magazine article about one. Back to the new camera.

OK, I'll give you smaller body. If the lenses are commensurately larger, the net gain is still a big fat ZERO.

I do agree that for this this to work for Canon, we are likely looking at another FD->EF type transition. For me that is a HUGE positive. EF stuff will get way less expensive way faster than it would other wise. Maybe I'll get that 600mm f/4L II IS after all!

I don't get your -6EV point. Is AF now going to be done stopped-down? That makes no sense at all.

Price of the 100-400 II plus 2X III was not my point; IQ was. No way that setup is going to out-perform a 600mm + 1.4X. And those who can afford the latter don't care about the former.

I've shot EVF, admittedly several years ago. I hope there have been significant improvements. That said, it will never equal the speed of real-time OVF.

We'll have to see just how *much* larger the lenses are; I suspect that this doesn't wind up 'zero sum' for size/weight distribution

The drop in EF is easily the most exciting part about it for me, too

Yes, at least with the Nikon system, AF is done stopped down (based on early reading). That is my point there; the AF system will have to be much more capable of focusing in less light when there's that much less light being let through the system.

Right, it isn't about outperforming a $10k+ setup. It's about IQ being "good enough" for the average casual/hobbyist, who is much more financially constrained benefiting from being able to get to 800mm on a budget. Witness the success of the 150-600 models. The people that buy into that market are the target audience for this feature where price is more determinant than ultimate IQ.

Yeah; even modern EVFs I've looked at in current bodies (Sony A9, Fuji XT-2) are just not up to the acceptable specs for for me. The XT-2 is the closest that I've seen and has a nice, hybrid feature that overlays the OVF and EVF displays; but it suffers from the OVF troubles of P&S bodies, where the optical view is offset from the actual framing. There, also, seems to be some level of lack of understanding or caring about handheld shooting in that a lot of modern bodies and features are being set up to be used via rear LCD; which frustrates *me* because that is an asinine way of shooting planes, birds and wildlife w/o a tripod.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
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Bassat
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Sep 01, 2018 19:22 |  #12

Snydremark wrote in post #18698014 (external link)
...
Yes, at least with the Nikon system, AF is done stopped down (based on early reading). That is my point there; the AF system will have to be much more capable of focusing in less light when there's that much less light being let through the system.
...

Another "I don't get it!"

What exactly is gained by focusing at f/11 or f/anything.but.wide.op​en?

Let me see, I have f/2 light I could choose to focus in, but, NAH, I'll stop down to f/11, give up 5 stops of light, and THEN I'll focus. I am missing something, here. Who thinks this is a good idea, and why?




  
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Sep 01, 2018 19:30 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #13

f11 focusing is good for us that want to use a TC on our long lenses.


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Bassat
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Sep 01, 2018 19:33 |  #14

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18698190 (external link)
f11 focusing is good for us that want to use a TC on our long lenses.

Understood. What is the deal with 'stopped-down' AF? Focusing at f/11 when you HAVE to would be nice. Stopping down from f/2 to f/11 BEFORE focusing makes no sense, to me.




  
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Sep 02, 2018 09:39 |  #15

Im waiting for Rudy and the B&H explanation video


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