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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 23:00
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Canon R or a used 5D Mk IV

 
Solpics11
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Sep 05, 2018 23:00 |  #1

After seeing the specs for the Canon R mirrorless, and so so initial reviews. Would you buy the Canon R or a used 5D Mk IV as a backup body for portrait and event photography. They are about the same price.




  
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Sep 06, 2018 01:50 |  #2

Depends on your existing kit. Based on the lack of this info, I would go 5d4 as I have to assume the term "back up" means you're already invested in a dslr system.




  
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Solpics11
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Sep 06, 2018 02:08 as a reply to  @ bildeb0rg's post |  #3

I have a 1DX and a lot of Canon lens.




  
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Sep 06, 2018 04:40 |  #4

Solpics11 wrote in post #18701496 (external link)
I have a 1DX and a lot of Canon lens.

Unless you want to be stuck using an adapter on whats equivalent to a 6D Mark II (minus the AF), I would also go with the 5D Mark IV, especially given your lens selection. You might want to wait until the Canon R is fully tested and reviewed though (you know.. to make an informed decision and all).




  
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Sep 06, 2018 05:29 |  #5

Since you have a 5d4, and have read about the eos-r specs, do you think the eos-r is offering you more?


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Sep 06, 2018 05:46 |  #6

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18701554 (external link)
Since you have a 5d4, and have read about the eos-r specs, do you think the eos-r is offering you more?

He has an 1DX.. and was wondering if he should get a 5D4 or Canon R for a backup.




  
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Sep 06, 2018 06:27 |  #7

I now shoot multiple digital systems - canon, nikon & fuji. a few years ago, I shot Canon only. last year, I sold all of my full frame Canons - except for my 1DX2 and 5D (classic). I've gone without a backup full-frame canon - waiting for this full-frame mirrorless release.

I shoot a fair amount with manual lenses - zeiss, voigtlander, m42s, etc. - so I was hoping for IBIS to appear. without it, I don't see the advantage to Canon's FF/mirrorless - with its thinner body and huge, humongous, hulking lenses. why?

when I want light and unobtrusive, I'll grab a fuji, an SL1/2, or maybe my leica m3. I don't see a Canon R with monster glass, ala 28-70/2, in my future. what a beast!

sometime in the next few months, budget permitting, I'll probably add a used 5d4 as backup to my 1dx2.

meanwhile, top priority will probably be to add a fuji x-h1 (w/IBIS) - - which will also be compatible with my ZF.2 zeiss lenses - adding stabilization.

I just don't understand Canon's priorities and product strategies. If they'd serve our needs, I wouldn't be shooting nikons and fujifilm cameras - which are easily 70% of my current workload.

It's nearly impossible, from my singular perspective, for me to remain loyal to Canon. But I keep trying...




  
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Sep 06, 2018 07:47 |  #8

daleg wrote in post #18701568 (external link)
It's nearly impossible, from my singular perspective, for me to remain loyal to Canon. But I keep trying...

If you love many different 3rd party lenses, then I think you are definitely not the person canon is targeting, and of course the tools you need will not be canon branded as well.

When Canon offers something in a body that is perfect for you, then buy it, but if they dont, hey, they dont.

5DIV vs EOS R is a toss up. it depends on you feature set needs. I think as a wedding tog I'd be looking hard at the 50mm f1.2 and the f2 zoom myself. These are lenses that aren't my particular bread and butter, so I'm not moving over to mirrorless yet, as I just bought a 5D4 - and I certainly would have considered the R if I had known about it.

But at the moment, I'm not going to buy.. maybe after the R II comes out and the used R's are cheap... yep, that might happen... :)


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Sep 06, 2018 09:12 |  #9

Solpics11 wrote in post #18701496 (external link)
I have a 1DX and a lot of Canon lens.


I have a 1Dx2 and a 5D4

I also have a very high count 5D3 that I am looking to replace

If this R body had dual cards I would jump all over one and an adapter AND DIP MY FEET INTO THE WELL

no dual cards kills it for me

also need to see how the AF performs. It needs to be close or on par with a 5D4

Jarod says canon told him a pro model to be released later this year. That should be dual cards and a great AF system

Thats what I am waiting for before I jump in


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Sep 06, 2018 09:52 |  #10

daleg wrote in post #18701568 (external link)
I shoot a fair amount with manual lenses - zeiss, voigtlander, m42s, etc. - so I was hoping for IBIS to appear. without it, I don't see the advantage to Canon's FF/mirrorless - with its thinner body and huge, humongous, hulking lenses. why?

This is my current thinking with full frame mirrorless; if you're going to use a lens capable of covering a FF sensor (especially a fast lens) then it's likely to be pretty large; rather negating the size advantage of the mirrorless body.

From there, what does mirrorless give you over a DSLR? The shorter registration distance means that (with adaptors) you could use a variety of third party / vintage lenses, which is certainly a benefit for some.

Other than that I'm struggling. A modern Canon DSLR (with DPAF) can focus quickly (and shoot pretty silently) in Liveview, so what does mirrorless have (as a concept - I'm not talking about any specific products/models) over a DSLR?

I'm not trying to be negative BTW - I'm just struggling to think why I'd buy a mirrorless. I suppose an EVF could show more info (e.g. zebras and focus peaking). What else?


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Sep 06, 2018 10:08 |  #11

Solpics11 wrote in post #18701444 (external link)
After seeing the specs for the Canon R mirrorless, and so so initial reviews. Would you buy the Canon R or a used 5D Mk IV as a backup body for portrait and event photography. They are about the same price.

So so reviews of a product that was just announced, is not yet available, and hasn't been tested yet by any reliable third party testing sites? I think any criticism or praise of this new camera is a bit premature.


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Charlie
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Sep 06, 2018 10:17 |  #12

sploo wrote in post #18701665 (external link)
This is my current thinking with full frame mirrorless; if you're going to use a lens capable of covering a FF sensor (especially a fast lens) then it's likely to be pretty large; rather negating the size advantage of the mirrorless body.

From there, what does mirrorless give you over a DSLR? The shorter registration distance means that (with adaptors) you could use a variety of third party / vintage lenses, which is certainly a benefit for some.

Other than that I'm struggling. A modern Canon DSLR (with DPAF) can focus quickly (and shoot pretty silently) in Liveview, so what does mirrorless have (as a concept - I'm not talking about any specific products/models) over a DSLR?

I'm not trying to be negative BTW - I'm just struggling to think why I'd buy a mirrorless. I suppose an EVF could show more info (e.g. zebras and focus peaking). What else?

I dont think you've looked into his post much.

Voigtlander and Zeiss make very small lenses

35 f1.7 ultron 220g
21mm soon to be released, around 200g I suspect, it's less than 2" long.
35 f1.4 nokton around the 200g mark
40mm f1.2 300g mark, and 3" long
15mm f4.5 200g
10, 12mm primes around 300g
Zeiss loxia 21, 25, 35, 50, all around 200-300g's and small form factor with 52mm? filter ring.

aside from those particular lenses, there are MANY other AF lenses not even mentioned. Sony 12-24 is 500ish grams, half the weight of the Sigma or Canon equivalent. Tamron makes a 28-75 f2.8 modern lens with modern optics in the 500ish gram range... between these two lenses alone, you have a rather complete setup. A DSLR equivalent along with body would be double the weight. DOUBLE THE WEIGHT!!! (A7r3 + 12-24 + 28-75 vs 5Div + 11-24 + 24-70ii). With double the weight means substantial tripod needs, and totally different bagging needs.

Even Rudy Windston, the Canon rep, was going on and on about the flange distance was what made it possible for the 28-70 F2, otherwise it would be much larger on DSLR.

of course if none of these lenses, along with many other AF lenses in the range, fit your criteria, then you're likely not going to save much weight going mirrorless. For event shooters that do 90% of their work with a 70-200 f2.8, it really isnt a big deal to dab into mirrorless, and I know folks that shoot that way.


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sploo
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Sep 06, 2018 10:41 |  #13

Charlie wrote in post #18701678 (external link)
I dont think you've looked into his post much.

Voigtlander and Zeiss make very small lenses

35 f1.7 ultron 220g
21mm soon to be released, around 200g I suspect, it's less than 2" long.
35 f1.4 nokton around the 200g mark
40mm f1.2 300g mark, and 3" long
15mm f4.5 200g
10, 12mm primes around 300g
Zeiss loxia 21, 25, 35, 50, all around 200-300g's and small form factor with 52mm? filter ring.

aside from those particular lenses, there are MANY other AF lenses not even mentioned. Sony 12-24 is 500ish grams, half the weight of the Sigma or Canon equivalent. Tamron makes a 28-75 f2.8 modern lens with modern optics in the 500ish gram range... between these two lenses alone, you have a rather complete setup. A DSLR equivalent along with body would be double the weight. DOUBLE THE WEIGHT!!! (A7r3 + 12-24 + 28-75 vs 5Div + 11-24 + 24-70ii). With double the weight means substantial tripod needs, and totally different bagging needs.

Even Rudy Windston, the Canon rep, was going on and on about the flange distance was what made it possible for the 28-70 F2, otherwise it would be much larger on DSLR.

of course if none of these lenses, along with many other AF lenses in the range, fit your criteria, then you're likely not going to save much weight going mirrorless. For event shooters that do 90% of their work with a 70-200 f2.8, it really isnt a big deal to dab into mirrorless, and I know folks that shoot that way.

Fair points; though I would put the Voigtlander and Zeiss under "third party / vintage"; which I'd noted was a benefit.

The Sony 12-24 is impressively light; but the Canon 11-24 is a slightly different beast (much larger and, from what I've seen, overall better image quality, so could be argued as not really like-for-like). In any event, I'd consider being able to use the Sony as a "third party" advantage (so not a negative for mirrorless).

The Tamron's interesting though; I initially thought you were referring to the older 28-75 (that is available in Canon mount anyway), but the Di III does appear to have different optics, so I assume it's a new design. A 5D4 + 24-70II comparison with the EOS R + Tamron 28-75 would be interesting (given the weight difference).


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Charlie
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Sep 06, 2018 11:34 |  #14

sploo wrote in post #18701692 (external link)
Fair points; though I would put the Voigtlander and Zeiss under "third party / vintage"; which I'd noted was a benefit.

The Sony 12-24 is impressively light; but the Canon 11-24 is a slightly different beast (much larger and, from what I've seen, overall better image quality, so could be argued as not really like-for-like). In any event, I'd consider being able to use the Sony as a "third party" advantage (so not a negative for mirrorless).

The Tamron's interesting though; I initially thought you were referring to the older 28-75 (that is available in Canon mount anyway), but the Di III does appear to have different optics, so I assume it's a new design. A 5D4 + 24-70II comparison with the EOS R + Tamron 28-75 would be interesting (given the weight difference).

I dont know about better optics in the 11-24, I certainly cant see it other than flare control in some instances. I've shot with both, but havent compared them directly. My brother has the 11-24, so I know it pretty well. He's trying to sell it to fund the 12-24 and convert to a smaller setup (5D3 + 11-24 + 85L -> A7iii + 12-24 + 85 f1.8)

someone has done a real comparison here: https://www.dpreview.c​om/forums/post/5981878​4 (external link)

my impression is that the 12-24 is about on par with the 11-24. You can review the thread photos. As for the 28-75 rxd, it's arguably one of the most compelling lenses in the Sony system, and it's third party! It's very sharp, in the range of the 24-70ii as far as I can tell, maybe lower at the extreme corners wide open @ 75mm? AF is very fast, which was a little bit unexpected based on other 3rd party lenses not performing as well. In practical use and at landscape apertures, I'm finding the difference hard to spot, and probably not worth my time pixel peeping. There are clearly much lower grade lenses, like the zeiss 24-70 f4, or the 24-240 (which I also own), or 28-70 kit lenses. The 12-24 and 28-75 are L grade in optics, no doubt about it.

Along with the Sony zeiss 35mm f2.8, I have a rather complete setup for travel with just those 3 lenses. Camera + 35mm for super casual outings, 12-24 + 28-75 for photogenic locations, I make due with IBIS to avoid ultra fast lenses. There's a hack for the 12-24 to accept circular filters with only 2mm loss, certainly better than lugging 150mm filters, really dig super ultra wide lenses since first using the Samyang 14mm.

On note of Voigtlander, they are making a tiny 21mm f3.5 that looks very interesting to me. I have an extreme casual setup with the Lowepro Dashpoint 30, a very small bag that is just big enough to fit the R3 + 35mm f2.8, the bag clips to my belt. A centimeter more in any direction would probably not fit! So having pocketable lenses that I can swap out is certainly appealing, 21 + 35mm pocketable = :-):-):-)

if the 21 has poor optics, unfortunately, 15mm would be my next and only option for pancake like lens, and I'm not sure I want to jump that wide from 35mm. first world problems ;-)a


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - CV 21/3.5 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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Post edited 6 months ago by TeamSpeed. (3 edits in all)
     
Sep 06, 2018 16:24 |  #15

txsizzler wrote in post #18701557 (external link)
He has an 1DX.. and was wondering if he should get a 5D4 or Canon R for a backup.

If you read the opening post, he is not asking what he should do, but rather what others would do, as he already seemed to have picked up the 5D4 when posting this thread. ;)


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