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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 02:31
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POLL: "How's the new EOS-R stack up for you?"
It's Amazing!
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It's kind of a let down
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33.8%
It's trash
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8.5%
It's good for the price
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23.5%
It helped me pick a new body
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EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

 
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mcoren
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Sep 09, 2018 20:44 |  #511

I've only been following this thread for the past 3-4 pages but I've skimmed a bit of what came before. Here are some of my thoughts, in no particular order:

- The poll at the top of the thread is meaningless because the options are either "love it" or "hate it one of four different ways". There's a lot of grey area between "It's Amazing!" and "It's kind of a let down". Even "It's good for the price" is basically a qualified statement of disappointment.

- The 6D Mark II was criticized a lot when it was announced because it wasn't a $2000 5D Mark IV--and this was before its sensor limitations were known. Now the EOS R is being criticized for being no more than a mirrorless 5Div, even though its price is just a bit more than $2000. I'll chalk this up to "some people are never going to be happy." Seriously, 5Div capabilities for $2300! Personally, if I were in the market for 6Dii (or even a 5Div), I'd seriously consider the R. It seems like an overall better value, and the 5Div is a great starting point for the new line.

- It's clear from the 6Dii and the EOS R that Canon considers $2000 full frame bodies to be "prosumer" or "advanced amateur", not professional. Whether or not you agree, I think they were wise to position the R there. It shows that Canon is committed to a more discerning level of buyer, but it has wider appeal than if they had come right out of the chute with a $4000 "professional" body. As their first full-frame mirrorless offering, Canon needs this to gain positive market acceptance.

- Keep in mind that this is only the first release in what will no doubt be a family of cameras. Going back to the original EOS system release in 1987, the first body released was the 650, an amateur/enthusiast body, followed by a handful of 6xx, 7xx, and 8xx models. It wasn't until two years later that the professional "flagship" EOS-1 was released. Give it time.

- IMO, Canon was wise to make a new mount in order to take advantage of the shorter flange distance that mirrorless enables. They took a lot of flak in 1987 too because the EF mount wasn't natively compatible with FD lenses, but that proved to be a huge advantage for them in the long run. Nikon likes to boast that their AF bodies can accept every F-mount lens ever made, but there are so many qualifiers that it’s real confusing (IMO) trying to determine what features on what lenses are available for a given body.

- I think the adapters are a good solution at reasonable prices. I particularly like that Canon took advantage of the 24mm adapter distance to add features like the control ring and drop-in filters for existing EF lenses.

- I think they came out with a good initial selection of RF lenses. Pro favorites like the 70-200 will hopefully follow soon (imagine a 70-200 f/2 L!). An f/0.95 lens may be good for bragging rights, but that's a highly specialized lens and not something a lot of people will use every day. Again, give it time. Canon knows better than anyone which EF lenses are most popular, and they will have to bring those to the RF mount sooner rather than later for the R line to succeed.

- I agree that the lack of IBIS and the 1.7x crop factor for 4K video are disappointing in 2018. On the former, all I can think is that Canon makes tons of money on lens-based IS, and on the latter, I don't do much video so I don't know all of the issues and tradeoffs.

- I am disappointed that it doesn't do continuous AF at greater than 5 FPS. Given how important professional sports photographers have always been for the EOS system, they're going to have to improve upon this sooner rather than later IMO.

Overall, I have to give Canon a lot of credit for the choices they made on the EOS R. Time will tell if they were the right decisions or not, but at least they've come out with a credible entry into the prosumer mirrorless space. It's not perfect, and there's always room for improvement, but this is the first entry in the EOS R line, not the last. I think it will be more interesting to see where the line goes in the next couple of years.

Mike


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Charlie
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Post edited 6 months ago by Charlie. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 09, 2018 20:53 |  #512

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18704480 (external link)
I would probably consider getting a few of the cheaper $99 adapters and just dedicate them to the EF lenses, I guess, if I had a mix of R and EF. Hopefully I don't get to that point, I would probably go bankrupt buying all the R lenses out now and in the future.

That's the only way ide do it. Jeff speaks from experience. If I'm out shooting with 2 or more lenses that need adapters, each one better have its own.

You'll likely see a knockoff adapter for a fraction on the price. Adapting can be annoying at times, Canon shooters will see the light soon enough, native or bust.

The filtered adapter will be forgotten in a few years. Those things exists in the Sony realm with Nikon, Canon, and more to E mount. I still have one of the early versions.

Problem is that you certainly don't want to grow your adapted list, but native collection. Usefulness is out the door real fast once you convert to native.

Buying more adapters is sort of burning up your lens budget, so worth a consideration.


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Trout ­ Bum
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Sep 09, 2018 20:55 |  #513

AlanU wrote in post #18704143 (external link)
I've made dual cards 100% necessary even for casual photos.

I get that a pro NEEDS redundency on any shoot. I wish it had dual slots. That said, since my first digital Fuji, thru my 5dII, 5dIV, never lost a shot because of my card.

archfotos wrote in post #18704457 (external link)
There is absolutely nothing exciting or innovated about this camera. The adapter with the ND filter has actually been discussed on a couple of video boards prior to canon releasing theirs.

So, the fact that it was discussed on an internet forum makes it's actual implementation not innovative.
OK....
And if other firms used it previously, doesn't negate it's usefullness for Canon's situation.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Sep 09, 2018 21:30 |  #514

JeffreyG wrote in post #18704166 (external link)
Similarly, if you have nothing but EF lenses but shoot a dSLR and the R, you will constantly be mounting and dismounting the adapter from the lenses. .

JeffreyG wrote in post #18704482 (external link)
Third time for me to say it. If the adapter is on the camera, you cannot mount your RF lenses.

But according to what you said (quoted above), one would not have RS lenses. You said "if you have nothing but EF lenses".


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AlanU
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Sep 09, 2018 21:42 |  #515

Trout Bum wrote in post #18704487 (external link)
I get that a pro NEEDS redundency on any shoot. I wish it had dual slots. That said, since my first digital Fuji, thru my 5dII, 5dIV, never lost a shot because of my card.

So, the fact that it was discussed on an internet forum makes it's actual implementation not innovative.
OK....
And if other firms used it previously, doesn't negate it's usefullness for Canon's situation.

I agree that modern memory cards are pretty darn good! I think we can have little to no issues having one memory slot. However after my experience I'll spend more money or simply choose dual card bodies over single card. I was so relieved when I purchased the 5d3 back in the day due to dual card slots :)


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Sep 09, 2018 22:06 |  #516

RDKirk wrote in post #18704439 (external link)
I think "EOS R" is the same as "EOS 650"


I've got one on a shelf just to the right of me now. Part of the museum :)


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Post edited 6 months ago by Talley. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 09, 2018 22:09 |  #517

mcoren wrote in post #18704483 (external link)
- The 6D Mark II was criticized a lot when it was announced because it wasn't a $2000 5D Mark IV--and this was before its sensor limitations were known. Now the EOS R is being criticized for being no more than a mirrorless 5Div, even though its price is just a bit more than $2000. I'll chalk this up to "some people are never going to be happy." Seriously, 5Div capabilities for $2300!

Absolutely nobody criticized Sony for making the A7III a $2000 A7rIII with just less megapixels.... OR when they gave it a comparable AF system from their $4k top of the line camera.

..in fact they were amazed and the market went wild. Still have a hard time finding the A7III in stock even 6 months later.

Canon should of taken notes. Operate more like Sony and crush the competition. Nope.


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Sep 09, 2018 22:15 |  #518

And i think most people were pretty pleased with the original 6d release. It had its drawbacks to the 5d3 but for the price it was an excellent camera.

If im only going to live in the canon world then whatever they do will be just great. However if i look at what other companies are doing then canon doesnt look so hot.


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Sep 09, 2018 22:35 |  #519

elitejp wrote in post #18704539 (external link)
And i think most people were pretty pleased with the original 6d release. It had its drawbacks to the 5d3 but for the price it was an excellent camera.

If im only going to live in the canon world then whatever they do will be just great. However if i look at what other companies are doing then canon doesnt look so hot.

maybe thats what the canon hierarchy is saying to themselves..... "we have too much loyalty they don't look what other people are doing" "they just follow our footsteps and love use because we put red ring on lenses"


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Sep 09, 2018 22:41 |  #520

elitejp wrote in post #18704539 (external link)
And i think most people were pretty pleased with the original 6d release. It had its drawbacks to the 5d3 but for the price it was an excellent camera.

If im only going to live in the canon world then whatever they do will be just great. However if i look at what other companies are doing then canon doesnt look so hot.

I love my 6D... I felt like I had advantages to the 5D3, and like for the money I had a seriously great rig. I am a 6D fanboy.

The reason I'm rather pissed about this R is that my 6D is nearing the end of it's life and I have no good options to repeat the experience/value-to-price ratio the 6D gave me.
I felt no reservations, no hesitations, no drawbacks, and no concerns when I bought the 6D. Looking back, I have 0 regrets about it.
If I gotta drop $2,000 on a body, I sure would like to repeat that feeling with the next upgrade, but as it stands, it doesn't look likely.


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Sep 09, 2018 22:53 |  #521

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #18704558 (external link)
The reason I'm rather pissed about this R is that my 6D is nearing the end of it's life and I have no good options to repeat the experience/value-to-price ratio the 6D gave me.

Actually, you do have an opinion that will give you exactly what the 6D gave you. Another 6D.

If the one you have meets your needs so nicely, then another one would, too.


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Sep 10, 2018 00:31 |  #522

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #18704558 (external link)
I love my 6D... I felt like I had advantages to the 5D3, and like for the money I had a seriously great rig. I am a 6D fanboy.

The reason I'm rather pissed about this R is that my 6D is nearing the end of it's life and I have no good options to repeat the experience/value-to-price ratio the 6D gave me.
I felt no reservations, no hesitations, no drawbacks, and no concerns when I bought the 6D. Looking back, I have 0 regrets about it.
If I gotta drop $2,000 on a body, I sure would like to repeat that feeling with the next upgrade, but as it stands, it doesn't look likely.

We have not yet seen in depth analysis of IQ from the EOS R, but if it is based upon the 5DIV sensor, what is fundamentally bad about 5DIV image for a lot less money? Am I hearing a sentiment not unlike the reaction to the 6DII...disappointment about not-MORE-performance-than the 5DIV at a lower-price-than the 5DIV?


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Sep 10, 2018 01:29 |  #523

I wouldnt worry about the IQ in any recent camera. My 6d which is several years old has great IQ. What I believe will separate who buys what is the features that allow you to get more keepers or get them more easily. Thats why for some dual card slots are important, for others its the fps or dynamic range.

My 6D works perfectly and I have no reason to upgrade. I dont need higher fps, I dont need better higher iso, i dont need dual card slots. (however I wouldnt argue against these things). But what I need in a new camera is better af points coverage and eye af. Those two things would speed up my photography by leaps and bounds.

So for me IQ is really the last consideration, because every brand can easily replicate the IQ of another brand. But how easily can they capture that picture is a different story.


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Sep 10, 2018 01:35 |  #524

may I ask how does the RF lens mount on the EF-M line? or does it able to mount?


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Sep 10, 2018 03:24 |  #525

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #18704558 (external link)
The reason I'm rather pissed about this R is that my 6D is nearing the end of it's life and I have no good options to repeat the experience/value-to-price ratio the 6D gave me.
I felt no reservations, no hesitations, no drawbacks, and no concerns when I bought the 6D. Looking back, I have 0 regrets about it.
If I gotta drop $2,000 on a body, I sure would like to repeat that feeling with the next upgrade, but as it stands, it doesn't look likely.

My thoughts exactly! For what i shoot my 6D is still my favorite camera ever. I don't need the frame rate or AF of the 5D4. 6D2 also brings nothing for me compared to 6D classic. 1DX2 is way to big, heavy and expensive even to consider it. 5DS lacks dynamic range, high ISO and would probably force me to upgrade to sharper lenses.

I am still amazed how good 6D classic images can turn out and how reliable this camera is. For now I don't see a Canon model that would make me spend around $2000 and give me major improvement over 6D.


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