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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera 
Thread started 05 Aug 2018 (Sunday) 21:22
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Does mirrorless do anything for you?

 
samueli
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Sep 10, 2018 08:22 |  #721

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18703426 (external link)
And in this statement lies the problem. No one will ever catch up. When does someone get off the gadget go round? There comes a point when it is all really good. When does someone finally stay with a camera or system long enough to full learn the equipment that they already have? It can take years for a camera to become second nature. That means tens of thousands of frames to get to a point where you are no longer eve thinking about technical things when you are working. When you have gotten to a point where you are just responding to what you see and because you are so in synch with your tools and the process you are able to make visual and technical decisions without thinking.

A great quote by one of the really great photographers.
"The camera doesn't make a bit of difference. All of them can record what you are seeing. But, you have to SEE." - Ernst Haas

How many know who they are as photographers and have really learned to see?

And then this one by Weston said well over a half century ago and is more true now than then.
The fact is that relatively few photographers ever master their medium. Instead they allow the medium to master them and go on an endless squirrel cage chase from new lens to new paper to new developer to new gadget, never staying with one piece of equipment long enough to learn its full capacities, becoming lost in a maze of technical information that is of little or no use since they don't know what to do with it. - Edward Weston

My advice is find equipment that matches the way you see and work. Stay with it. Learn who you are as a photographer and work with equipment that best helps you express your vision. Whatever that might be. Or keep jumping from one camera and system to the next every time something is upgraded. That is an endless cycle and something the camera companies absolutely love but both your vision and your wallet may not love.

Well in that case, I'll just keep using my 5DIII. I'm not a spray and pray type of shooter, so even after 6 years, I still have under 10K shutter actuation. At my shutter usage rate, my camera won't wear out for possibly 100 years.




  
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N2bnfunn
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Sep 12, 2018 11:11 |  #722

soeren wrote in post #18702242 (external link)
No. I was exaggerating my sarcasm a bit.
Your definition is very narrowminded to say the least. Besides wildlife and sports shooters there are a lot different niches in professional photography and there are female photographers to. Not all, not even most have the need for a big camera.
Real-life experiences reported suggest the battery life to be more than enough for most applications and mind you not that many years ago photographers had to stop shooting after 32-36 exposures, some professionals still do..... While it may not be for you and your business there are photographers who find a mirrorless the best choice for their work seeing the benefits of eye-AF and the features the evf makes possible to make up for perhaps needing to change the battery once or maybe twice which BTW is not a complicated and time consuming task.

narrowminded? Are you kidding me this is an opinion question this is MY OPINION as far being narrow-minded I think your responds to the question sums it up.


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N2bnfunn
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Sep 12, 2018 11:14 |  #723

Lyndön wrote in post #18702254 (external link)
Not true. Check out the YouTube video of the Sony professional photographer who is shooting the US Open (tennis) with the A9 and FE 400 2.8. Looks to me like it did pretty darn good.

https://youtu.be/8_Tle​j_oatY (external link)

True that there aren’t many pro sports shooters using Sony today, but I’d say the main reason is bc they’re still filling out their line of big whites. The A9 is extremely capable for pro sports, and with a little more time they’ll have several big lenses and I think it’ll be a different story. I expect Sony to continue to be aggressive in trying to work their way into those markets just as they have on the non-sport side of things.


So what you saying is out thousands of sports photographers you found a few that use it? Really I think you answered yourself. So help me out what percent would that be? 000.1


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N2bnfunn
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Sep 12, 2018 11:16 |  #724

Choderboy wrote in post #18702324 (external link)
So here are 10 Pros to prove you wrong. That took 10 seconds with Google.

https://www.mirrorless​ons.com …s-for-sports-photography/ (external link)


So we are talking about 10? Out of thousands of thousands of sport photographers and you found 10? Unreal


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N2bnfunn
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Sep 12, 2018 11:18 |  #725

JeffreyG wrote in post #18702363 (external link)
Sports photographers on the sidelines are, numerically, a very small slice of the professional photography market. The bulk of professional work is wedding, event, portrait, real estate, product. There are also professionals working in journalism and in fine art. I don't see why mirrorless isn't an option for a lot of these photographers.


The only thing I can say is if you want one then go right head and buy one, but for NOW I will NOT be purchasing one.


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TeamSpeed
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Post edited 9 months ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 12, 2018 12:18 |  #726

N2bnfunn wrote in post #18706423 (external link)
So we are talking about 10? Out of thousands of thousands of sport photographers and you found 10? Unreal

Well quite frankly it is very easy to come up with a rebuttal to your comment... It is your fault you used the words you did. :)

N2bnfunn wrote in post #18702217 (external link)
Well I never said all.. but for now you won't see a side line photographer at a professional football or any professional sport with a mirrorless camera for now.

Now if you had said "but for now you won't see a majority of side line photographers at a professional football or any professional sport with a mirrorless camera", then you would have had a point. I suggest choosing your words a bit more carefully next time. Your original statement is blatantly incorrect, and is easily refuted with FACT.


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Sep 12, 2018 12:49 |  #727

For established pro sports shooters, swapping over gear from Canon or Nikon to Sony seems to be a tough sell. Even if it is someone who is leaving a situation where they are provided with a Nikon kit (the Scripps-turned-Gannett shooters here, for example, are still using D4 bodies with necessary glass) it is a tough sell to make the wholesale change.

Once Sony comes out with 300 2.8 and 500 f4 in e-mount, then maybe more shooters go full-Sony. If Sony would price the A-mount SSM 300 and 500 to be competitive, they adapt via the LE-EA3 as-native. Nobody wants to pay that much to adapt glass, though. The gaps in native glass--even though it doesn't seem like a big deal--may be too big a leap for someone who is already going to have to learn a new menu, memorize a new button layout, sacrifice some durability and possibly some handling. Adapting lenses has come a long ways, but the focus stigma still exists.

I definitely appreciate the e-mount system, and if I had all the money to do it, I would go that direction--but then again, I shot my last Canon years ago. Now that Canon has made up some ground in the sensor department via the 5Div, though, it does makes me wonder how good the 1Dxiii will be. The new R mount glass is supposed to outstanding, and it seems like that big mount is begging for a 1-series body.


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soeren
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Post edited 9 months ago by soeren.
     
Sep 12, 2018 13:31 |  #728

N2bnfunn wrote in post #18706416 (external link)
narrowminded? Are you kidding me this is an opinion question this is MY OPINION as far being narrow-minded I think your responds to the question sums it up.

You said ...... or any professional sport for that matter and most people and mirrorless is not a professional grade camera

And i said your definition was narrowminded, not you. Your generalizing with the cameras being to small for most people and not being suitable for any sports ...............a very narrow definition on what makes a cameras "professional"/ suited for use by professional photographers .......... Well ok lacking perspective then

That pretty much sums it up


If history has proven anything. it's that evolution always wins!!

  
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soeren
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Sep 12, 2018 13:38 |  #729

N2bnfunn wrote in post #18706423 (external link)
So we are talking about 10? Out of thousands of thousands of sport photographers and you found 10? Unreal

Never mind the number. You was very catagoric in you statement and was proven wrong

N2bnfunn wrote in post #18706423 (external link)
but for now you won't see a side line photographer at a professional football or any professional sport with a mirrorless camera for now.


If history has proven anything. it's that evolution always wins!!

  
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Sep 12, 2018 13:45 |  #730

N2bnfunn wrote in post #18706423 (external link)
So we are talking about 10? Out of thousands of thousands of sport photographers and you found 10? Unreal

He said he found 10 people just with a 10 second google search... what's unreal is your arrogance over something you're clearly just wrong about.


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Sep 12, 2018 17:45 |  #731

mickeyb105 wrote in post #18706524 (external link)
Once Sony comes out with 300 2.8 and 500 f4 in e-mount, then maybe more shooters go full-Sony.

When Sony shows up with a Sony van full of lenses that the pros can use to cover major sporting events like the Olympics, while their own gear gets emergency Sony service, they might have a fighting chance at establishing themselves in the pro ranks as a legitimate photo equipment vendor for sports.
For now, sadly Sony can't even manage to organize its own pro camera photo warranty service network in the US, they have to contract out to a service outfit that gets themselves a lot of complaints (the last time I checked over a year ago, I just repeated the review search just now). 90 reviews of Precision Camera on Yelp yield average score of 1.5 stars, with comments like "Sony has a 3rd party company called Precision Camera & Video Repair, Inc. If can give them NO STARS I will" unfortunately not that atypical.


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Sep 12, 2018 18:42 |  #732

https://www.cameralabs​.com …aging-pro-support-review/ (external link)
https://www.imaging-resource.com …upport-to-help-you-switch (external link)

And some random quotes from the above links:

"For example, the recent College Football Championship had over 100 studio cameras in-use, all Sony cameras."

"For example I attended the Sony 2018 Open golf tournament in Hawaii which offered a walk-in service facility. When I visited there were three staff available to repair or resolve issues, service products and provide loans. As you’d expect there was a wide array of gear to try out, and as well as borrowing an A9 and some big lenses, I replaced a battery I’d accidentally broken the day before. The centre was also happy to clean rival gear while of course taking the opportunity to loan a Sony alternative for them to try."


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Sep 12, 2018 18:46 |  #733

Sony got the message it seems!


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Sep 12, 2018 18:48 |  #734

Yup like I said until it happens I am going to stick to what I said. It is Not a Professional Grade Camera period. It is very nice camera mid range or maybe a little better. But not a professional grade.


I have friend that shoots with a Sony mirrorless camera all the time in shooting models and I have told him the same.


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Sep 12, 2018 18:53 |  #735

Wilt wrote in post #18706705 (external link)
When Sony shows up with a van full of lenses that the pros can use to cover major sporting events like the Olympics, while their own gear gets emergency service, they might have a fighting chance at establishing themselves in the pro ranks as a legitimate photo equipment vendor for sports. For now, sadly Sony can't even manage to organize its own pro camera photo warranty service network in the US, they have to contract out to a service outfit that gets themselves a lot of complaints (the last time I checked over a year ago)

Have you actually used pro services Wilt, or are you digging up 4 year old internet posts?

Ive used them a number of times and the turnaround times, responsiveness, and communication are a step above Canon Professional Services. They do still outsource to Precision, but the service level is top-notch...and really as long as the service quality is there, it doesn't matter whether where they source the service from. i.e. they contract loaners from Lens Rentals, and we all know the service quality at Lens Rentals is very high.

Those who have used pro services speak very highly of it.

Tracking from a repair I had done at precision via Sony Pro Services. In and out of their facility in one day. Free shipping both ways so the whole process took 3 days:



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