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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 02:31
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POLL: "How's the new EOS-R stack up for you?"
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EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

 
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JeffreyG
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Sep 16, 2018 13:08 |  #1006

AlanU wrote in post #18709135 (external link)
I think the performance of the EOS R will be based more on the actual "NEW" mirrorless body and software/firmware. How the mirrorless technology will work in general will be different from using a mirrored body.

Yes, perhaps this is the best way to think of this. It would be totally possible to build a version of the EOS R with deeper body and an EF mount. EF lenses on this hypothetical body should focus exactly the same as they will when mounted on the real EOS R with an adaptor.

That isn't to say this will be the same as how they perform on a dSLR, but that is because mirrorless is different, not because there is an adapter between the lens and the body.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 16, 2018 17:03 |  #1007

JeffreyG wrote in post #18709063 (external link)
...

But that doesn't make it a logical progression to think that a Canon lens, driven through a Canon adapter, by a Canon camera, all of which was engineered by one department specifically to work together, is going to have the same problem. ....

All this sounds good, but I'd suggest that you only inferred the most important part, a part which we may as well spell out more clearly here in this thread, that part being;

The EOS R was also designed by that same dept. in that same company SPECIFICALLY to work with the existing lenses the same company has been making since the 1980's.

Canon new/knows going in that EF Lens compatibility was a major aspect of their mirrorless entries selling point.

I'd argue that it is in fact a "Make or Break" aspect.

As a primarily Canon shooter, the ONLY reason I am still reading about this body and considering it or it's next sibling, (vs. some fo the more refined advanced mirrorless brands) is the NATIVE functionality with my existing EF lenses.

If Mike is correct that we have to worry about this one aspect of the RF system,. then Canon has failed completely right out of the gate and there is no hope for RF.

I can make fun of Canon all day for dozens of various reasons, but I can't imagine that they would let this thing out on the streets set up to fail so completely because of incompatibility with it's own lenses.
That just reads like SciFi hysteria to me.

To compare, in the case of SONY body + Canon, Nikon, Tamron, or whatever lens, + Metabones adapter, ONLY the Jr. partner here, Metabones, set out to make the lens and body work together. Sony didn't. Tamron didn't. Canon for that matter actually tried to prevent it working to some degree. So yes again, the two cases or totally incomparable.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 16, 2018 17:05 |  #1008

Cuttlefish wrote in post #18709081 (external link)
Can we safely assume that all EF lenses for we have will work with the new EOS-R without an adapter?

e.g. I have a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 DG APO HSM which I have used with my 7D and I am interested in getting a Rokinon 14mm soon also?

I would not assume so no. SIGMA is more legendary, but Tamron as well has had entire lens line ups that were rendered incompatible in SIGMA's case, and at least "dodgy" in Tamron's, with Canon body communications in the past. Going back as far as the Film era.


> Humorous sidebar: Firefox Speel Check keeps wanting to change Tamrons to "tampons", and doesn't know how to spell "spell" if you accidentally double the "ee". :) :) :)


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 16, 2018 17:10 |  #1009

sidknee wrote in post #18709098 (external link)
All my sigma lenses have worked just fine with the M5 and Canon adaptor.

That's good to know.


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RDKirk
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Sep 16, 2018 17:15 |  #1010

samueli wrote in post #18708612 (external link)
In the past 6 months I've made significant EF lens purchases to fill out my kit. Even if I liked the EOS R I wouldn't be purchasing any lenses for likely 3-5 years, and those wouldn't be any real staple lenses. My recent 24-70 and 16-35 where serious purchases that are meant to cover me for many years. I'm like collateral damage in all of this. To bad my tiny purchases don't affect Canon, cause they really stuck the budget customers with bad timing.

When would the timing ever be good for everyone?

At least this time Canon could provide adapters (not quite possible with the FD to EF problem).

And I expect that the EF to RF adapters will operate seamlessly--I'm sure that was a go/no-go factor for the RF launch.




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 16, 2018 17:29 |  #1011

umphotography wrote in post #18709055 (external link)
I have tried the 3rd party adapters, both magabones and the sigma on the Sony A7111

Performance was sluggish and not there. Have you been there and done that ? I have !!! We are not going to know how the performance is with adapters and the EOR-R body until people get these things out and figure out what they are going to do and not going to do. Then we will know for sure despite information obtained from release specs or promises from Canon.

I think the Kia case was NOTHING to do with lighting. I am in reception rooms with a heck of a lot worse lighting conditions. If a mirrorless body with an adapter cant cut it in that environment, but it will perform with EOS-R glass, then we are back to square one for the majority of shooters.

Photographers will have 2 different systems because performance might not be there with the adapters. No One knows for sure...... Yet

I stand by what I said

No One knows for sure until people get the EOS-R cameras and conversion adapters with L glass , into environments that they normally shoot in, and give things a go. I have heard promises from canon and others in the past. They will tell you anything to get you to hit the Add to cart button

Im waiting. Big time waiting for people to completely test the adapters out. Especially at a 10K investment into Mirrorless land with glass that will work

You have much more faith in the MFG than I do

Yes, I think I do. My logic was outlined a few posts above, so i wont repeat it in this post. You can take it or leave it.


PLEASE JAKE GIVE ME A Break

I realize you are a mod but try not to get too pretentious or cute with me please- I have as much experience as you do in the game

Honestly I don't know what my status as Moderator has to do with our disagreement in this case. I read your post as inviting an explanation why most people responding did not seem to want to join you in your concern about adaptability. I wrote what I saw as a fellow photographer, (and I would argue that you have MORE experience in the game than I do) and feel it was a valid response to your query. Of course it's my interpretation of the thread, that's all I have to go on, but I think it's pretty accurate or I wouldn't have posted it.
I certainly don't think I was being pretentious, just disagreeing with you.
I am always CUTE :)


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Sep 16, 2018 17:29 |  #1012

Dlee13 wrote in post #18708674 (external link)
I personally think it's important for manufacturers to have the big high end wide aperture lenses as well as the smaller, lighter f/1.8 or f/2 primes. Canon seems to have gone at the high end first and that makes sense considering how out of date it's 50L was.

That means to me that Canon is balls-to-the-wall for the R mount. They've put their top designers in the R division.




  
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RDKirk
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Sep 16, 2018 17:41 |  #1013

JeffreyG wrote in post #18709101 (external link)
This is a good point, while it is reasonable to assume Canon EF lenses will work fine adapted to the EOS R, it does not then follow automatically that 3rd party EF mount lenses will always work fine on the RF. Canon has screwed 3rd party lens manufacturers in the past.

That's an interesting business point. A decade ago, I think Canon looked at screwing 3rd party lens manufacturers as good business sense. System flexibility wasn't a huge bonus in selling people into a system, and once in the EOS system Canon wanted to sell you lenses.

Now.....I would say that system flexibility and 3rd party offerings have been a big part of the Sony E-mount success story. So should a camera OEM even help 3rd party lens makers?

I never bought the idea that Canon deliberately screwed third party manufacturers.

Rather, it was the case that 3rd party manufacturers hadn't totally reverse engineered all the potentials of the EF mount.

For instance: The EF mount powers the lens from the camera. When Sigma created their EF-compatible lenses, their lenses depended on the full power that was deliberable by the early Canon bodies to the early Canon EF lenses.

But they didn't notice that the early Canon EF lenses had very, very small power requirements--far below the capacity of the bodies of the day.

Later--when Canon released the Elan--they emphasized battery longevity with bodies that needed far less power...and also delivered far less power to the lenses.

The old Canon lenses worked fine because they'd never needed much power. The Sigma lenses choked. That was Sigma not doing perfect reverse engineering.




  
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Sep 16, 2018 17:43 |  #1014

RDKirk wrote in post #18709321 (external link)
I never bought the idea that Canon deliberately screwed third party manufacturers.

Rather, it was the case that 3rd party manufacturers hadn't totally reverse engineered all the potentials of the EF mount.

....

I feel like this is a more accurate view as well. that said, I would not doubt that Canon and Nikon might try to make it a little harder to keep up.


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Sep 16, 2018 18:55 |  #1015

In a few very short years, this adapter chatter will die down significantly. It can and will get annoying, and Canon will bring out a bunch of lenses, and those using the system will switch to native.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - CV 21/3.5 - FE 35/2.8 - SY 35/1.4 AF - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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Sep 16, 2018 18:59 |  #1016

RDKirk wrote in post #18709321 (external link)
For instance: The EF mount powers the lens from the camera. When Sigma created their EF-compatible lenses, their lenses depended on the full power that was deliberable by the early Canon bodies to the early Canon EF lenses.

But they didn't notice that the early Canon EF lenses had very, very small power requirements--far below the capacity of the bodies of the day.

Later--when Canon released the Elan--they emphasized battery longevity with bodies that needed far less power...and also delivered far less power to the lenses.

The old Canon lenses worked fine because they'd never needed much power. The Sigma lenses choked. That was Sigma not doing perfect reverse engineering.

This is the first time I've ever seen this story. Where did you hear it? Just curious. :)

Mike

EDIT: The anecdote I gave in my earlier post (#996), the Sigma lens I had was compatible with my 100, which was the same as the Elan. But now that you mention it, I think it was the Elan 7 that required it to be rechipped, which I missed out on.


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Sep 16, 2018 20:25 |  #1017

AlanU wrote in post #18709135 (external link)
The adaptation to an EF lens to the RF mount should work.

I think the performance of the EOS R will be based more on the actual "NEW" mirrorless body and software/firmware. How the mirrorless technology will work in general will be different from using a mirrored body.

It caught my attention listening to one of Canon's own guys, state something along the lines that EF lenses could function better adapted to the EOS R, or that more could be gleaned from the EF lenses when adapted.

Maybe more details will be explained later why that is.


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Sep 16, 2018 20:33 |  #1018

mdvaden wrote in post #18709398 (external link)
It caught my attention listening to one of Canon's own guys, state something along the lines that EF lenses could function better adapted to the EOS R, or that more could be gleaned from the EF lenses when adapted.

Maybe more details will be explained later why that is.

Drop-in variable ND or CPL adapters can be used with EF lenses. This functionality is not available when using EF lenses with dslr.




  
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Sep 16, 2018 21:31 |  #1019

mcoren wrote in post #18709355 (external link)
This is the first time I've ever seen this story. Where did you hear it? Just curious. :)

Mike

EDIT: The anecdote I gave in my earlier post (#996), the Sigma lens I had was compatible with my 100, which was the same as the Elan. But now that you mention it, I think it was the Elan 7 that required it to be rechipped, which I missed out on.

Lived it, explored the reasons at the time, including measuring the output of the cameras, early and later.




  
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Sep 16, 2018 21:46 |  #1020

artsf wrote in post #18709401 (external link)
Drop-in variable ND or CPL adapters can be used with EF lenses. This functionality is not available when using EF lenses with dslr.

And with the control ring adapter, additional exposure control can be made from the lens.




  
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