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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 02:31
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POLL: "How's the new EOS-R stack up for you?"
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EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

 
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davesrose
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Sep 22, 2018 19:26 |  #1291

AlanU wrote in post #18713656 (external link)
Even the interim solution of using adapted EF canon glass with EOS R for video will bzzzzt bztttt bzzzzzt bzzzt
In AF for vids.

Well your photo is disqualified because it's not an adapted EF-S lens on FF:-) Actually...your point here made me think of another advantage of using EF-S with Canon R video. There are nano-USM EF-S lenses for silent and quick video AF. The argument for higher priced Canon cameras not having STM or nano-USM is that production companies would be using manual pull.


Canon 5D mk IV
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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mdvaden
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Post edited 4 months ago by mdvaden. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 22, 2018 19:34 |  #1292

AlanU wrote in post #18713656 (external link)
I cannot stress how I am incredibly disappointed in the features canon deliberately excluded with the eosR.

Seeing deliberate omission happens with every manufacturer, including Sony, what Canon did wasn't unusual. The fact it takes exceptional photos most important for me. When I travel every few weeks, I take two bodies anyway and use both. So my travel ends up in two or more cards anyway, although, dual cards in a single camera is not a guarantee of preservation. Seeing the "solution" you mentioned being one choice to fail, there are other options. But I focus on photos 99% of the time. So I'm glad to see the image examples coming from the EOS R in the interim until the body is available.

If the Sony works for you, sounds logical. I'd put it to use too if I owned it, seeing its a good camera.

Here's a repeat post of a video shared earlier with UN-EDITED photos. Samples begin near 3:04




vadenphotography.com (external link) . . . and . . . Coast Redwoods Main Page (external link)

  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Sep 22, 2018 19:42 |  #1293

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18712736 (external link)
I almost jumped on a lightly used A9 yesterday for $3300, but then thought perhaps I might find these a bit less here in coming days.

That sounds like a reasonable price.

When I consider what the A9 provides in terms of speed, functionality, and image quality, $3300 actually seems like a perfect price point.

Canon will not get a single one of my dollars until they offer AT LEAST this same bang for the buck type of value in a new mirrorless body. And of course, they won't do that any time soon. I figure it'll be at least 12 years before Canon offers a new mirrorless body that is worth it's price to me.

(just to clarify - yes, I realize that $3300 was for a used A9, not a new one)


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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patrick ­ j
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Sep 22, 2018 20:03 |  #1294

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18713679 (external link)
I figure it'll be at least 12 years before Canon offers a new mirrorless body that is worth it's price to me.

I think you are unduly pessimistic with that time frame. 12 years in the world of technology is like 30 years in the rest of the world. Look at how computers and televisions and cameras have advanced over the last 5 to 10 years. I bet in a year or two Canon has something you'd like. (of course, I don't know what your requirements are, so maybe 3 years)


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited 4 months ago by Tom Reichner. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 22, 2018 21:10 |  #1295

patrick j wrote in post #18713694 (external link)
I think you are unduly pessimistic with that time frame. 12 years in the world of technology is like 30 years in the rest of the world. Look at how computers and televisions and cameras have advanced over the last 5 to 10 years. I bet in a year or two Canon has something you'd like. (of course, I don't know what your requirements are, so maybe 3 years)

It's not at all about when Canon will make something that I like - I have no doubt, as you say, that that will happen within a couple of years.

What it's all about is when the Canon camera that I like finally falls way way down to a price that I think is worth it.

I still shoot a 1D4 because none of the more recent, more capable Canon bodies have yet fallen to a low enough price point. I waited seemingly forever for used copies of the original 1Dx to drop down to the $1500 level, and it just never happened, so I finally gave up on that. Now I want a used 5D4 for around $1,700, and it seems like I'm going to have to wait at least another year and a half for that to happen.

If Canon releases a fully capable, not-at-all-crippled-in-any-way mirrorless body in 2020, and it is priced at around $6,000, then I don't think that used prices would drop down to the $3,000 point until 2028 or 2030 or thereabouts.

Camera bodies have been holding their value way way better than they used to. In early 2009 a 50D was, like, almost a thousand bucks - then by early 2010 you could buy a used one for $400. That kind of fast depreciation just doesn't happen anymore, which REALLY sucks for someone such as myself.

Anyway, that's why I think it'll be many years before a top of the line, flagship model Canon mirrorless body will be able to be had for $2,000 to $3,000.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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davesrose
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Post edited 4 months ago by davesrose.
     
Sep 22, 2018 21:26 |  #1296

Tom Reichner wrote:
=Tom Reichner;18713738
Camera bodies have been holding their value way way better than they used to. In early 2008 a 50D was, like, over a thousand bucks - then by early 2010 you could buy a used one for $400. That kind of fast depreciation just doesn't happen anymore, which REALLY sucks for someone such as myself.

I haven't seen that. The latest new Canon bodies are great about sensor performance...and when you try to get a really great price, that would mean it would have to be in the market for longer. However, bodies still depreciate more then lenses do. With your one example of a 50D: that would be true of any model that when you first see it while it was in production, it would be more expensive. Then when it's out of production,it will be substantially cheaper. I'd say similar examples now would be 5D3 or 6D valuations now.


Canon 5D mk IV
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Sep 22, 2018 21:35 |  #1297

davesrose wrote in post #18713744 (external link)
With your one example of a 50D: that would be true of any model that when you first see it while it was in production, it would be more expensive. Then when it's out of production,it will be substantially cheaper. I'd say similar examples now would be 5D3 or 6D valuations now.

But the problem is that these days, each model is in production for so damn long. Gone are the days of a model being released at $1,000 or $1,200, and then 18 months later being available used for $400.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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davesrose
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Sep 22, 2018 21:47 |  #1298

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18713747 (external link)
But the problem is that these days, each model is in production for so damn long. Gone are the days of a model being released at $1,000 or $1,200, and then 18 months later being available used for $400.

Don't see that: most models are pretty regular with turn over (only hold out was 7D's successor).


Canon 5D mk IV
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Sep 22, 2018 22:01 |  #1299

davesrose wrote in post #18713753 (external link)
Don't see that: most models are pretty regular with turn over (only hold out was 7D's successor).

Well then tell me what recent Canon body you can get for 50 percent of the original price just 18 months after release. I am telling you, that just doesn't happen anymore.

You can say, "Don't see that" over and over again, but just because you aren't seeing it doesn't mean that that isn't the way it is.

The rate at which Canon bodies depreciate HAS changed a lot over the past 10 to 12 years.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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RDKirk
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Sep 22, 2018 22:29 |  #1300

mdvaden wrote in post #18713337 (external link)
If an 18-35mm is made for an EF-S mount body, the lens is an EF-S mount lens and can be called such, even using a figure of speech. There are over 200 figures of speech and some are more precise than regular words. If they were not using a figure of speech, what you shared may help them looking up lens model information.

Does the lens physically fit on a Canon full frame camera? if so, it is not "EF-S" mount, regardless of actual image size.

An EF-S mount will not physically attach to a Canon FF camera (without modification).




  
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RDKirk
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Sep 22, 2018 22:31 |  #1301

mdvaden wrote in post #18713391 (external link)
Like a couple others, you haven't really added anything further other than trying to confirm a technically-correct-self-confidence.

When someone like B&H says they've got an 18-35mm that can fit an "EF-S" mount, they most certainly can ship one that does what they said. I've read "EF"s and "DC"s for years, but still understand why B&H chooses their descriptions. They are communicating to a broad audience.

Canon's EF lenses also fit EF-S mount cameras, so the fact Sigma lenses also do means only that they are also EF mount lenses.




  
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Wilt
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Sep 22, 2018 22:34 |  #1302

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18713738 (external link)
It's not at all about when Canon will make something that I like - I have no doubt, as you say, that that will happen within a couple of years.

What it's all about is when the Canon camera that I like finally falls way way down to a price that I think is worth it.

I still shoot a 1D4 because none of the more recent, more capable Canon bodies have yet fallen to a low enough price point. I waited seemingly forever for used copies of the original 1Dx to drop down to the $1500 level, and it just never happened, so I finally gave up on that. Now I want a used 5D4 for around $1,700, and it seems like I'm going to have to wait at least another year and a half for that to happen.

If Canon releases a fully capable, not-at-all-crippled-in-any-way mirrorless body in 2020, and it is priced at around $6,000, then I don't think that used prices would drop down to the $3,000 point until 2028 or 2030 or thereabouts.

Camera bodies have been holding their value way way better than they used to. In early 2009 a 50D was, like, almost a thousand bucks - then by early 2010 you could buy a used one for $400. That kind of fast depreciation just doesn't happen anymore, which REALLY sucks for someone such as myself.

Anyway, that's why I think it'll be many years before a top of the line, flagship model Canon mirrorless body will be able to be had for $2,000 to $3,000.

I used to track this stuff in its ability to lose value...about 35% per year in decreased value on the market was what was happening 13 years ago.

dSLR prices had always dropped like a stone, with only a few exceptions like the 5D (classic). Historically Canon dSLRs had a market value half-life of only two years...every two years, lose 50% of value...$8000, two years later $4000, two years later $2000, two years later $1000. Consider the fact that the typical dSLR has historically depreciated at a 36% annual rate.

From one of my posts about 7-8 years ago...

  • The Canon EOS 1D MarkIII was introduced in 2007 at about $3800-3900; one sold on POTN a around Oct 2011 for $1900, another was listed at $2250, another listed in April 2011 was $1975.
  • The $6900 1DsII launched in 9/04 had sales on POTN for $3200-3500 in Oct 2008, so there are cameras that seem to not slide as fast. But looking at 1Ds and 20D and 350D, etc. they did generally follow that 2 year economic half life...$8000 1Ds's that sold for $1000-1500 on the used market eventually, for example.
  • The 1DII had a bit less depreciation, like the 5D which had resisted that plummet in value until the 5DII came out..


At the time, if you had $1500 new camera which sold at $1200 refurbished by Canon, at the end of year 1 it was worth $800 (about half of the new price), at the end of year 2 it was worth $520, at the end of year 3 it was worth $340. at the end of year 4 it was worth $220
If you bought a refurb after two years the $1200 was worth $520, or $680 depreciation, whereas if you bought a 2 year old camera used at $520 and it was worth $340 or only $180 depreciation. So when dealing in purchase of depreciating equipment with the risk of fickle moods about the hobby, the used market camera cuts your risk even compared to buying a refurb!

The 5DIII was launched in March 2012 at $2700. someone ended up selling it on POTN in Feb. 2018 for just under $1300...6 years later (no longer the 2 year half-life!)

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Sep 22, 2018 22:36 |  #1303

Wilt wrote in post #18713466 (external link)
It is not specified if the EOS R automatically detects an EF-S lens. Non-Canon brands lenses do not use 'EF-S mount' even on their crop image circle lens designs.
We also have no details how/if the camera can automatically detect third-party crop image circle lenses.

I suspect the camera merely interrogates the lens for its nomenclature, as it does to determine lens correction data. Third party manufacturers are going to have to give their cameras the correct responses.




  
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Sep 22, 2018 22:40 |  #1304

Strick wrote in post #18713518 (external link)
Seems many are getting way to stuck on semantics. A EF-s lens is a EF mount, period, it is a "EF"-s lens though. Only difference is how close the rear element sits back. You can put a EF-s lens on a 5D or an older asp-h 1D but you run the risk of the mirror hitting the rear of the lens.

No, you cannot physically put an EF-S lens on a 5D camera. The EF-S mount has a rear protrusion that prevents it from being mounted to any full frame EOS camea.

And many EF-S mount lenses do not have rear elements that would protrude into the full frame mirror box--but the physical protrusion still prevents them from being mounted on a full frame camera.




  
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Post edited 4 months ago by Wilt. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 22, 2018 22:42 as a reply to  @ RDKirk's post |  #1305

If reliant only upon nomenclature, then comes the problem that the camera would need to update its database as new EFS (and new crop image circle lenses) are introduced and the listed lenses expands, unless there is some 'key' that marks the naming convention for all crop lenses. Speculation does us no appreciable good, other than to amuse us! :lol:


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