Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 02:31
Search threadPrev/next
POLL: "How's the new EOS-R stack up for you?"
It's Amazing!
70
26.7%
It's kind of a let down
89
34%
It's trash
22
8.4%
It's good for the price
61
23.3%
It helped me pick a new body
20
7.6%

191 voters, 262 votes given (3 choices choices can be voted per member)). VOTING IS FOR MEMBERS ONLY.
BROWSE ALL POLLS
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

 
this thread is locked
elitejp
Goldmember
1,777 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 207
Joined Mar 2008
     
Sep 27, 2018 03:50 |  #1516

If someone doesnt like af or fps then dont use it. No need to make it harder on everyone else and try to call it photography.


6D; canon 85mm 1.8, Tamron 24-70mm VC, Canon 135L Canon 70-200L is ii

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
sploo
premature adulation
2,595 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 553
Joined Nov 2011
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
     
Sep 27, 2018 04:31 |  #1517

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18716875 (external link)
Thank you, yes. This is my point. Where will it end? And when do we stop calling it photography?

Well, it's still painting with light; which I believe is the root of the term "photography" ;-)a

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18716893 (external link)
No.

For me, the real skill in photography is in knowing where to position the camera and how to compose the scene. That's what it's all about.

Things like focusing and getting the right exposure, or even ultra-precise timing, to me that's just the medium getting in the way. Any bit of brain power or finger movement that has to go towards those things is just that much less that's available for positioning and framing.

Just finding a wild animal and getting close enough to it for good photos usually requires a great amount of research, patience, travel, and skill. So if you were to say that I am trying to take great photos without any knowledge or skill, then you would be utterly wrong. Do you have any idea how many hundreds of hours, hundreds of dollars, and hundreds of miles go into almost every good wildlife photo???

I want to use my knowledge and skill for the things that matter most, which are the wildlife savvy and the creative, aesthetic things that go into composing an image. I don't want to have to bother with technical things because I want my capacities to be completely free to deal with what really matters.

As Allen would say, I just want the camera to get out of the way!

Agree completely. Even something as "simple" as getting a good shot of a kid running towards you requires time and skill to work with the "model", and choose the right location and angle. Higher frame rates and better AF just means you're more likely to get "the" shot; it won't make a bad scene good.

AS_Photo wrote in post #18716922 (external link)
Never liked Auto ISO or Auto anything. I'm the one making the photo, not the camera.

FPS...meh that doesn't really matter for what I do. I know it does for others, don't really mind more fps for those that need it.

Still use Grad ND's and they are still better than having to do exposure blending.

Why do you need to consider DOF with landscapes? Is that not obivous?

I use the camera's meter, but it's wrong more than it's right. I've learned to see how it sees and adjust accordingly.

Well, auto ISO is about the way digital camera sensors work. Ideally we'd just take a photo with the shutter speed and aperture chosen by the photographer (for a look they want to achieve) and the brightness of the image could be adjusted to taste in post. The problem is that sources of noise means that on most cameras it's beneficial to amplify the captured signal before it's digitised; and that's the job of the ISO amplifier. As such, the ISO setting on a digital camera is just a way of reducing noise in the shot. On a "perfect" (ISO invariant) sensor there would be no need to ever amplify the signal (over some base level the camera always uses); and thus, no need for an ISO setting.

There's no chance a human could adjust the ISO setting on a camera fast enough to cope with changing light levels as an animal ran in and out of shafts of light in a forest. The skill came from being in the right place for the shot. Auto ISO is just the tool that improves the quality of the resulting image.

As already noted by Tom; a high frame rate isn't a substitute for skill either; it's about capturing the frames "between" those you would have taken with a slower fps camera. I have tons of action shots of people (from the 7D, 5D3 and 5D4) where two adjacent frames are nearly perfect - the one in the middle that I didn't get would probably have been.

10 fps means each shot is being taken 100ms apart. Average human reaction times are >200ms; so anyone that claims 10 fps (vs, say 3 fps) is a crutch for having poor timing isn't being realistic vs the science.


Camera, some lenses, too little time, too little talent

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Choderboy
I like a long knob
Avatar
6,700 posts
Gallery: 149 photos
Likes: 5214
Joined Jul 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
     
Sep 27, 2018 05:45 as a reply to  @ post 18716926 |  #1518

The 'impact shot', but not for a fish...
Unfortunately this action happened about 550 metres away. The White-bellied sea eagle makes the Osprey look like a pigeon. :lol:


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Dave
Image editing OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
38,664 posts
Gallery: 115 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 7202
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
Post edited over 2 years ago by TeamSpeed. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 27, 2018 06:28 as a reply to  @ sploo's post |  #1519

Great points, and I will add on the ISO topic.

Auto ISO is outstanding these days finally.

A photographer managing ISO vs the camera doing it vs a future ISO invariant implementation adds nothing or subtracts nothing from the final photographic result. All three are just versions of brightening up the capture, which only affects "mood" of the image, and can be done after the shot even, and doesn't have to be all that correct during the shot.

Auto ISO is a tool. Not all folks are willing to change or try out new tools, they like their old tools and technique. That is neither right or wrong, but I always feel that it is better to at least try new things to see how it could impact what I do. If there is no improvement in any aspect in using a new tool or technique, then I disregard it. But at least I tried and validated its impact. :)

I have found auto ISO to work so well, I now always shoot manual with auto ISO and just worry about shutter speed to either freeze or capture motion, and aperture for both DOF, and keeping ISO levels downwards if possible. Those both impact my images more than ISO does ultimately, so auto ISO allows me to concentrate on 2 parts of the 3 part exposure triangle. Worrying about less is always good in my book!


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sploo
premature adulation
2,595 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 553
Joined Nov 2011
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
     
Sep 27, 2018 06:35 |  #1520

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18717265 (external link)
Great points, and I will add on the ISO topic.

Auto ISO is outstanding these days finally.

A photographer managing ISO vs the camera doing it vs a future ISO invariant implementation adds nothing or subtracts nothing from the final photographic result. All three are just versions of brightening up the capture, which only affects "mood" of the image, and can be done after the shot even, and doesn't have to be all that correct during the shot.

Auto ISO is a tool. Not all folks are willing to change or try out new tools, they like their old tools and technique. That is neither right or wrong, but I always feel that it is better to at least try new things to see how it could impact what I do. If there is no improvement in any aspect in using a new tool or technique, then I disregard it. But at least I tried and validated its impact. :)

I have found auto ISO to work so well, I now always shoot manual with auto ISO and just worry about shutter speed to either freeze or capture motion, and aperture for both DOF, and keeping ISO levels downwards if possible. Those both impact my images more than ISO does ultimately, so auto ISO allows me to concentrate on 2 parts of the 3 part exposure triangle. Worrying about less is always good in my book!

Yep - pretty much exactly how I shoot these days; manual, choose the shutter speed and aperture, and let the camera take care of the ISO. The newer Canon bodies (1Dx2, 5D4, 80D) have sufficiently good dynamic range that it's not too critical to have to push the ISO up (accepting more risk of blown highlights, in order to get better shadows).

In fact, it would make sense for the camera to always use the highest possible ISO setting (that doesn't clip highlights). That way you should get the best signal to noise ratio, and nothing is lost from the image.


Camera, some lenses, too little time, too little talent

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
umphotography
grabbing their Johnson
Avatar
11,753 posts
Gallery: 20 photos
Likes: 3486
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
     
Sep 27, 2018 08:12 |  #1521

sploo wrote in post #18717272 (external link)
Yep - pretty much exactly how I shoot these days; manual, choose the shutter speed and aperture, and let the camera take care of the ISO. The newer Canon bodies (1Dx2, 5D4, 80D) have sufficiently good dynamic range that it's not too critical to have to push the ISO up (accepting more risk of blown highlights, in order to get better shadows).

In fact, it would make sense for the camera to always use the highest possible ISO setting (that doesn't clip highlights). That way you should get the best signal to noise ratio, and nothing is lost from the image.


This is true until you introduce a flash in the mix. Firmware with flash use puts ISO at 400. Not enough and flash output goes all over the place in ETTL. As a result, I use AV mode much more with HSS and crank up the iso so shutters stay above 1/500


Mike
www.umphotography.com (external link)
GEAR LIST
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
umphotography
grabbing their Johnson
Avatar
11,753 posts
Gallery: 20 photos
Likes: 3486
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
     
Sep 27, 2018 08:23 |  #1522

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18716875 (external link)
Thank you, yes. This is my point. Where will it end? And when do we stop calling it photography?



agreed

1/2 the fun is NOT knowing if you got the shot, missing shots, perfecting the skill sets, and then hitting THE KEEPER under the conditions that you had to capture it in. Example 10 frame bust. I had 10 good ones but the shot I hit tracking of this guy coming in was the one i liked despite having the fish pop out and being in the talons. all good shots. But I could of nailed this in one shot


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Mike
www.umphotography.com (external link)
GEAR LIST
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sploo
premature adulation
2,595 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 553
Joined Nov 2011
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
     
Sep 27, 2018 08:56 |  #1523

umphotography wrote in post #18717298 (external link)
This is true until you introduce a flash in the mix. Firmware with flash use puts ISO at 400. Not enough and flash output goes all over the place in ETTL. As a result, I use AV mode much more with HSS and crank up the iso so shutters stay above 1/500

Fair point; though I assume there's nothing "magic" about ISO 400; it'll just be that the camera's designers found that with the ISO amplifier set to whatever-dB-level-above-base ISO 400 equates to in their amplifier, the ETTL metering works best with flash.

Ultimately, the flash is just a light source, and when the shot is taken, the same noise vs amplification rules would apply.

umphotography wrote in post #18717302 (external link)
agreed
1/2 the fun is NOT knowing if you got the shot, missing shots, perfecting the skill sets, and then hitting THE KEEPER under the conditions that you had to capture it in. Example 10 frame bust. I had 10 good ones but the shot I hit tracking of this guy coming in was the one i liked despite having the fish pop out and being in the talons. all good shots. But I could of nailed this in one shot

Agreed - but you'd concede that nailing it in one shot would have required a healthy dose of luck; on top of the skill required to be in the right place at the right time?

If your living depends on getting "the" shot, then the highest possible frame rate is surely must.


Camera, some lenses, too little time, too little talent

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
mdvaden
Goldmember
Avatar
3,453 posts
Gallery: 94 photos
Likes: 1669
Joined Mar 2009
Location: Medford, Oregon
Post edited over 2 years ago by mdvaden. (2 edits in all)
     
Sep 27, 2018 10:03 |  #1524

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18717265 (external link)
Great points, and I will add on the ISO topic.

Auto ISO is outstanding these days finally.

What aspect of the EOS R topic are you adding to with the ISO topic?

Are you meaning that other photographers should find the EOS R up to par in that regard?

sploo wrote in post #18717312 (external link)
Fair point; though I assume there's nothing "magic" about ISO 400; it'll just be that the camera's designers found that with the ISO amplifier set to whatever-dB-level-above-base ISO 400 equates to in their amplifier, the ETTL metering works best with flash.

You noted one or "the" camera. That was something you learned about the EOS R's designers found in that body?


vadenphotography.com (external link) . . . and . . . Coast Redwoods Main Page (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sploo
premature adulation
2,595 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 553
Joined Nov 2011
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
     
Sep 27, 2018 10:21 |  #1525

mdvaden wrote in post #18717341 (external link)
What aspect of the EOS R topic are you adding to with the ISO topic?

Are you meaning that other photographers should find the EOS R up to par in that regard?

You noted one or "the" camera. That was something you learned about the EOS R's designers found in that body?

"the" is the camera to which Mike was referring. I'm assuming the 1Dx2. I have noticed similar behaviour in other Canon bodies, but it's been a while since I've used ETTL with flashes.

This ISO/fps/flash discussion has gotten a bit off topic re the EOS R; though I've just had an advertising email from Canon touting "COMPLETE COMPATIBILITY: THE CANON EOS R SYSTEM", and noting "The EOS R system is part of the EOS family, so all EF and EF-S lenses and Speedlite accessories are compatible with the full-frame mirrorless Canon EOS R camera. Choose from a range of new EOS R lenses to get the most out of the system, or use your existing EF and EF-S lenses with no loss of quality, using one of the three adapters."


Camera, some lenses, too little time, too little talent

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
38,664 posts
Gallery: 115 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 7202
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
Post edited over 2 years ago by TeamSpeed.
     
Sep 27, 2018 10:59 as a reply to  @ sploo's post |  #1526

There is really nothing more to talk about on the EOS R other than either the continued "it's great" or "it sucks". This always happens in every thread when everything that could be said, has been said.

So it is okay we talk about other things until there is actually new info or data or experiences with the EOS-R to be had. :)

This thread has veered off the tracks too many times to count, so trying to police it now with nothing new is effort in vain.


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
umphotography
grabbing their Johnson
Avatar
11,753 posts
Gallery: 20 photos
Likes: 3486
Joined Oct 2007
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
     
Sep 27, 2018 12:10 |  #1527

I think for this thread, we need reports from reliable users as to how well the current L lens will perform when adapted to the EOS-R and How well they work with OCF flash units and speedlights


Mike
www.umphotography.com (external link)
GEAR LIST
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TeamSpeed
01010100 01010011
Avatar
38,664 posts
Gallery: 115 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 7202
Joined May 2002
Location: Midwest
     
Sep 27, 2018 12:50 |  #1528

Will be interesting to see if the XPro works with the EOS-R to control the family of Godox lights.... Or will there need to be a Godox firmware update to that?


Past Equipment | My Personal Gallery (external link) My Business Gallery (external link)
For Sale: Sigma USB Dock

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
19,144 posts
Gallery: 341 photos
Best ofs: 10
Likes: 8854
Joined Sep 2008
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands, EU
     
Sep 27, 2018 13:06 |  #1529

Charlie wrote in post #18716904 (external link)
Just tools.*

Yes, but as more of these tools become available, to me it seems they are taking over completely, in fact replacing the photographer.
With all these tools (and more to come no doubt), who is in fact taking the shot? Camera (tools) or the photographer. Or should I say "photographer"?

*My comment is not specifically meant for you, Charlie. Just a handy quote. :-)


I'm a bloody goody two-shoes!
My flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sploo
premature adulation
2,595 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 553
Joined Nov 2011
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
     
Sep 27, 2018 13:23 |  #1530

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18717452 (external link)
Yes, but as more of these tools become available, to me it seems they are taking over completely, in fact replacing the photographer.
With all these tools (and more to come no doubt), who is in fact taking the shot? Camera (tools) or the photographer. Or should I say "photographer"?

*My comment is not specifically meant for you, Charlie. Just a handy quote. :-)

To be honest, and based on my sig, I'd welcome a camera that went out and did the shooting for me. It'd probably do a better job :mrgreen:


Camera, some lenses, too little time, too little talent

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

186,112 views & 1,661 likes for this thread
EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is LueG
973 guests, 292 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.