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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 30 Sep 2018 (Sunday) 23:01
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Excessive noise shooting Indoor sports with Canon 1dxmii

 
Ambient ­ Light ­ Studios
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Sep 30, 2018 23:01 |  #1

I have a Canon 1dxmii and shoot with all L series lenses including the 24-70 2.8, 70-200 II 2.8 and the 400 II 2.8 and have a major issue with noise. I shoot high school sports all the time as a large part of my business. I have been having a problem most notably shooting indoors with existing lights. The noise is so bad at ISO 3200 that it actually makes the image look out of focus and even though I custom White Balance the camera to the lights in the gym before every game, the color is terrible. now when Im shooting outdoors at night at a football game at ISO 2400 or even 3200, I don t notice it nearly as much, nice color, low noise and good contrast.

I shoot in raw.

I have been having this problem pretty much since i have the camera almost two years now, but it has gotten to the point that Im trying to fix in post.

Anyone have any ideas? Attached is an edited sample from the other night's VB game.

Normally shooting at Full Manual Exposure but trying to fix this issue I have been trying ShutterSpeed Priority at 800 SS, the ISO at 3200 letting the Aperture fall to 2.8 which is giving me maybe a half stop underexposed. I have also tried using some exposure compensation.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Sep 30, 2018 23:07 |  #2

I don't have any help I'm afraid, not much experience with the 1Dx2,. but it does look pretty nasty for a mere ISO 3200, and half stop push.


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Oct 01, 2018 00:09 |  #3

What are you using for processing? This looks like too heavy of a hand on the Clarity slider in LR, to me.


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Post edited 4 months ago by Ambient Light Studios.
     
Oct 01, 2018 01:14 as a reply to  @ Snydremark's post |  #4

Using Lightroom cc Classic, clarity should on be around 10, I never try to push it very much.

If it set too high it is due going back and forth too many times and was a mistake. I see what you are saying but I have literally made at least 15 develop presets from this game trying to improve on the original. Each starting from the original raw import with no preset as a starting point, not even lens correction data. It has gotten past the point of even knowing what I’m looking at!




  
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Post edited 4 months ago by Ambient Light Studios. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 01, 2018 01:33 |  #5

Here are a couple shots from this past spring’s basketball playoffs using the same equipment but with lower ISO. And much better light than our gym. These were saved from another post on here and reloaded so I’m not sure how much that has affected the quality.


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Post edited 4 months ago by TeamSpeed. (6 edits in all)
     
Oct 01, 2018 03:53 |  #6

Either it is just a very, very dark gym, or something is off somewhere in settings, post production, or capturing the cycling lights midstream causing WB and thus noise issues. Sometimes a venue just has terrible lighting and thus WB is off, and your noise levels will be high. :(

This is OOC with some minor post processing from the 5D4 in low light, this is about 2 stops less light than the sample you posted I would say to try cranking your ISO back up (yes, go to 6400) and instead of raising your exposure in post, you can actually lower your exposure down a bit. I always use in-camera ISO first, instead of post processing a dark image up later.

f4, ISO 25600, 1/800. 280mm (70-200 II with Kenko 1.4x), 5D4

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Oct 01, 2018 04:05 |  #7

Do you have the in-camera noise reduction turned on? Turn that off, it doesn't do a great job and hampers any efforts you might try in post production.


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Oct 01, 2018 04:31 as a reply to  @ daisan's post |  #8

There is no "off" value, there is always NR to some level even at disabled. I use standard on my 5D4 shots, and it seems to handle it well, I would think the 1DX2 is no different.


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Oct 01, 2018 10:54 |  #9

Ambient Light Studios wrote in post #18719722 (external link)
Using Lightroom cc Classic, clarity should on be around 10, I never try to push it very much.

If it set too high it is due going back and forth too many times and was a mistake. I see what you are saying but I have literally made at least 15 develop presets from this game trying to improve on the original. Each starting from the original raw import with no preset as a starting point, not even lens correction data. It has gotten past the point of even knowing what I’m looking at!

Can you provide us an unedited RAW file, or a straight out of camera jpeg?


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Oct 01, 2018 22:23 |  #10

Ambient Light Studios wrote in post #18719680 (external link)
Normally shooting at Full Manual Exposure but trying to fix this issue I have been trying ShutterSpeed Priority at 800 SS, the ISO at 3200 letting the Aperture fall to 2.8 which is giving me maybe a half stop underexposed. I have also tried using some exposure compensation.

1. Underexposing in low light and pushing in post is always going to result in worse noise than just shooting at higher ISO to get the correct exposure. You should expose properly and then apply noise reduction and sharpening (with masking) instead.
2. Custom white balance won't help because the lights probably don't have a consistent white balance. Many older gyms use fluorescent or other "gas-discharge" lamps (lamps that generate light by passing an electrical charge through an ionized gas). This process is not continuous/stable. Instead output changes during a 100th/sec cycle that results in the light output and colour temperature changing during the cycle. This means the white balance is constantly changing (and so is the light output) and as a result the custom WB will be incorrect for at least part of the cycle which may coincide with the camera capturing a frame. I belive the 1DX II has an anti flicker feature. Are you using this?


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Oct 02, 2018 05:29 as a reply to  @ Dan Marchant's post |  #11

Actually, the 1dxii is very ISO-invariant around the 3200 mark. That means you can adjust in post processing, and the results are close to using a higher ISO. There is very little penalty here.


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Oct 03, 2018 02:26 as a reply to  @ Snydremark's post |  #12

The clarity was set higher than I normally use and I have got back and started with the original raw file again, the results are better but not what I would expect for the equipment,




  
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Post edited 4 months ago by Ambient Light Studios.
     
Oct 03, 2018 02:39 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #13

TeamSpeed, yes the gym I dark and vary inconsistent lights, not in types as they are all fluorescent and look to be the same color, more inconsistent because of the way they are hung... different angles to each other no rhyme or reason to it. I do use the anti-flicker setting and have High iso noise setting to off.

I have experienced that light cycling problem before this does not seem to be it. If it was, each shot would be difference cast colors on it, not having that problem.

I’d love to be getting what you are getting but each time I have gone higher on the ISO the problem just gets worsei know it is not good to change exposure in post proceeds but that I what i need to do I order to anything decent.

Thanks




  
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Oct 03, 2018 02:48 as a reply to  @ daisan's post |  #14

Daisen it is turned off.




  
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Oct 03, 2018 09:26 |  #15

Do you use the 1DX Mark II's built-in flicker compensation?


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Excessive noise shooting Indoor sports with Canon 1dxmii
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