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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 02:31
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POLL: "How's the new EOS-R stack up for you?"
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EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

 
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mcoren
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Oct 06, 2018 23:48 |  #1726

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18723600 (external link)
But how much $$ is a 16mm -xx zoom for full frame? How big is it and what does it weigh?
And the IQ of those EF-S lenses can be superb.

This is actually one of my biggest draws to the Canon R body/ies.
I don't have to pack my huge 24-70 f/2.8 just because I am bringing a 5D4. I can instead still use the far more flexible 18-135mm :)

Lastly, 12MP is not what I will want most of the time, but 12MP is often more than enough, particularly when the goal is to travel lite. Also, those APS-C lenses will cover the 4K video crop very well :)

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18723671 (external link)
Perhaps you missed all the discussion about 4k video. Since it is cropped, you put a uwa efs on it for video. As mentioned in several reviews now and the last video review by dpreview.

Good points. I wasn’t thinking of 4K, and yes, I have missed quite a bit of the 115 pages of posts in this thread. :)

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Oct 06, 2018 23:51 |  #1727

mdvaden wrote in post #18723819 (external link)
I know a lot of photographers of all sorts. I'm guessing if we side-step the few forum users and look at photographers (in general) that are skilled. it would be "some" or a "few" that want faster frame rate, but I can't at all imagine "many". Of the dozens I know, there are not even few, but very few.

It's a luxury basically.

Pro sports photographers have always been important to the success of the EOS line. I don’t expect Canon to neglect this segment in the R series for long.

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Post edited 5 months ago by mdvaden. (4 edits in all)
     
Oct 07, 2018 00:14 |  #1728

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18723820 (external link)
Sure 3-5 is fine for many things, but having more means a greater choice of pics to choose the keeper from. Even if you knew 200 people that don't need high burst speeds for what they shoot, that only accounts for .0002% of the 100M people that probably take pictures. I don't really think you have statistics in your favor to define how everyone else would feel. In these here parts where I know several sports shooters that shoot bursts, 3-5fps won't cut it. ;)

Plus faster bursts are fun for creating things like this.

Yes, that's in the framework of what I just shared. Among the dozens of photographers I know, that fits the fraction who can use it. I did likewise photographing Karate, although I found 4 to 6 FPS plenty. And when we look at 100,000,000 people, the ones that don't need it by sheer numbers make the those who don't few in comparison. So you basically are repeating what I said in different words or with a different shade of color.

In the context of the EOS R that this thread is about and comparable price range, I see photographers caring for maximum FPS. I seem to recall the Sony A9 being designed more toward that goal. And it would make sense that an exceptionally expensive camera should have those sorts of toys and tools in it.

I hope your job or business goes well this year and next so you can afford the best camera that you set your eyes on.


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Oct 07, 2018 03:35 |  #1729

rogue.guineapig wrote in post #18719186 (external link)
I have read that about the 90mm Macro... I have the 100L and it's fantastic, a really great piece of glass that I've never heard a single person speak ill of...
it's just that the Sony is supposed to be really superb, and that focal length in a macro is on of my favorites. It's certainly a factor in my temptation to switch!
You think the 90 is simply sharper, or just overall better than the 100 for color/contrast/bokeh?


Tom Reichner wrote in post #18719195 (external link)
.
I, too, would like to know what Kenji thinks it is that makes the Sony better than the Canon. . Would it be the optics themselves, or just things such as ergonomics or form factor (which mean very little to me).


.

First off to be clear, the 100L is fantastic, dont get me wrong and im in no reason trying to make it sound like a bad lens.

Partially yes its ergonomics, the Sony's manual focus clutch mechanism is fantastic, pull it back and you get a good old fashioned manual focus ring beautifully coupled to a distance and reproduction scale, you get a customizable button that you can set to punch in and magnify your subject as you bring it in or anything else you want to set it to (by default its focus lock/hold but thats useless to me because i use back button focus)

But it also focuses faster than the 100L, or at least handles action better, I've gotten far better results using it for moving action shots of my Corgis than i did the 100L on the 7DII, ive had it nail AF on stuff and been utterly floored that it managed to do so because i literally mashed backbutton AF and the shutter release at the same time and gotten a perfect shot out of it, the bokeh is wonderfully smooth out of it as well and yes, i do genuinely think its sharper ( i ought to just bolt both of the lenses to my A7III and do a honest side by side) I've had the 100L for years, Pretty much since it came out in fact, and I just feel the Sony is better... To be fair, its newer, and again, the Canon isnt a bad lens at all, far from it, its literally my most used lens so it does hurt a little to admit that yes I feel the Sony macro just works better. Would i switch systems JUST for it? No. Of course not. Thats just silly.

my 4-5 year comment refers SPECIFICALLY to mirrorless specific lenses, The rumor i heard, and granted, its a rumor is that we're seeing 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 RF lenses next and those are not what im in the market for when it comes to "mirrorless specific lenses" like the 24mm f/1.4 GM and the 55mm f/1.8

Also my 70-200 f/2.8L IS USM is amazing in terms of optics on the A7III, if it wasnt for the fact that AF with the combo was so poor for my needs i wouldnt ditch it for the GM.

Again please don't misunderstand, im being hard on Canon but not hating on them, I mean, ive shot them for most of the 14 years ive done photography, but Sony just offers a system that works better for me right now and offers what i need right now and the EOS R just does not interest me with its lack of a joystick and its terrible burst rate... The reviews i watched of it have done little to really change my mind. The A7III and Sony ecosystem is just better FOR ME and my needs right now.

It wasnt a decision i've made lightly, Theres a sense of reliability with Canon after owning four bodies from them and numerous lenses, but at the end of the day i feel its right for me.


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Oct 07, 2018 06:16 |  #1730

KenjiS wrote in post #18723891 (external link)
First off to be clear, the 100L is fantastic, dont get me wrong and im in no reason trying to make it sound like a bad lens.

Partially yes its ergonomics, the Sony's manual focus clutch mechanism is fantastic, pull it back and you get a good old fashioned manual focus ring beautifully coupled to a distance and reproduction scale, you get a customizable button that you can set to punch in and magnify your subject as you bring it in or anything else you want to set it to (by default its focus lock/hold but thats useless to me because i use back button focus)

But it also focuses faster than the 100L, or at least handles action better, I've gotten far better results using it for moving action shots of my Corgis than i did the 100L on the 7DII, ive had it nail AF on stuff and been utterly floored that it managed to do so because i literally mashed backbutton AF and the shutter release at the same time and gotten a perfect shot out of it, the bokeh is wonderfully smooth out of it as well and yes, i do genuinely think its sharper ( i ought to just bolt both of the lenses to my A7III and do a honest side by side) I've had the 100L for years, Pretty much since it came out in fact, and I just feel the Sony is better... To be fair, its newer, and again, the Canon isnt a bad lens at all, far from it, its literally my most used lens so it does hurt a little to admit that yes I feel the Sony macro just works better. Would i switch systems JUST for it? No. Of course not. Thats just silly.

my 4-5 year comment refers SPECIFICALLY to mirrorless specific lenses, The rumor i heard, and granted, its a rumor is that we're seeing 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 RF lenses next and those are not what im in the market for when it comes to "mirrorless specific lenses" like the 24mm f/1.4 GM and the 55mm f/1.8

Also my 70-200 f/2.8L IS USM is amazing in terms of optics on the A7III, if it wasnt for the fact that AF with the combo was so poor for my needs i wouldnt ditch it for the GM.

Again please don't misunderstand, im being hard on Canon but not hating on them, I mean, ive shot them for most of the 14 years ive done photography, but Sony just offers a system that works better for me right now and offers what i need right now and the EOS R just does not interest me with its lack of a joystick and its terrible burst rate... The reviews i watched of it have done little to really change my mind. The A7III and Sony ecosystem is just better FOR ME and my needs right now.

It wasnt a decision i've made lightly, Theres a sense of reliability with Canon after owning four bodies from them and numerous lenses, but at the end of the day i feel its right for me.

This is from The Digital Picture

Though it requires an adapter to work on Sony cameras, the 10mm-longer Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro Lens is a lens I own, love and use a lot. So, highly relevant to me at least was a comparison between these two lenses. In the Sony vs. Canon macro lens image quality comparison at f/2.8, I see the Sony turning in sharper results in the center of the frame and the Canon looking a bit better in the corners. By f/4, you are not likely to care which of these lenses you have mounted. The Canon has more lateral CA but retains slightly sharper corners, especially if the lateral CA is corrected (relatively easy and non-destructive). The Sony shows less effects from flare and the Canon shows slightly less geometric distortion.

A lot of the early comparisons had the 90mm Macro on a A7R2 and the 100L on a 24MP sensor, then tried to go on about how much sharper the Sony is despite such unfair and bias tests.

I was personally considering getting the Sony Macro and selling my 100L but it's just too good of a lens to let go. I know some day in the not too distant future I'll own a Canon Mirrorless body and Might sell the Sony which is what makes me reluctant to sell it off.


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Oct 07, 2018 12:32 |  #1731

Wilt wrote in post #18721514 (external link)
'flagship' is reference to a ship which a flag rank naval officer (i.e., admiral) uses for his command, but which is under the command of the ship's captain...IOW someone runs the ship, the admiral just has an office in it.
Applied to cameras, the 'top of the line' (fanciest, most 'professional') camera ordinarily is the flagship. Since Canon has already declared its intention of introducing a fancier mirrorless better intended for the pro community, although the EOS R is the current fanciest, most 'professional' mirrorless from Canon, I don't think we can call the EOS R the 'flagship'.

.... but if we take your first paragraph to be applicable, then being the only ship available, the current EOS R has to carry the flag :)
Once the newer body is out, the flag will transfer to it.

 :p <-- tongue in cheek.


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Oct 07, 2018 22:23 |  #1732

A recent review on one of the EOS R's lens options - the 28-70mm f/2

Wonder if more photographers will buy this lens than the 11-24mm that is close to the same price. The uses are not very similar. And not many photographers afford lenses this expensive.



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Oct 08, 2018 04:58 |  #1733

mdvaden wrote in post #18724537 (external link)
A recent review on one of the EOS R's lens options - the 28-70mm f/2

Wonder if more photographers will buy this lens than the 11-24mm that is close to the same price. The uses are not very similar. And not many photographers afford lenses this expensive.


One thing that occurred to me from watching the video is the "cheating" that's done by many digital cameras when a very fast lens is used; namely that an f/1.4 lens doesn't actually result in the sensor collecting twice as much light vs f/2.0. The accusation being that the camera tends to silently increase the sensor gain a little in order to mimic the increase in light (which obviously leads to more noise). For those interested; there's some real world testing about; showing comparisons of a Canon f/1.4 vs a Samyang f/1.4, and also the Canon but with the pins taped (so that the camera doesn't know it's a Canon lens); the result is that only the un-taped Canon at f/1.4 gets the hidden ISO boost.

So... my point of the above rambling is that if you're shooting f/1.4 primes for the light (because you need a fast[Ish] shutter speed and low[Ish] ISO), and not specifically the shallow DOF, then this f/2.0 zoom may well give you the flexibility of a zoom, whilst actually getting you image noise levels that aren't that much worse than an f/1.4 prime. An interesting proposition for indoor sports shooters maybe.


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John ­ Sheehy
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Oct 08, 2018 08:19 |  #1734

sploo wrote in post #18724637 (external link)
One thing that occurred to me from watching the video is the "cheating" that's done by many digital cameras when a very fast lens is used; namely that an f/1.4 lens doesn't actually result in the sensor collecting twice as much light vs f/2.0. The accusation being that the camera tends to silently increase the sensor gain a little in order to mimic the increase in light (which obviously leads to more noise). For those interested; there's some real world testing about; showing comparisons of a Canon f/1.4 vs a Samyang f/1.4, and also the Canon but with the pins taped (so that the camera doesn't know it's a Canon lens); the result is that only the un-taped Canon at f/1.4 gets the hidden ISO boost.

You can do that without tape, by just unscrewing the lens enough so that the pins don't communicate. Remember not to leave the camera that way, though, as you may forget, and drop the lens.

So... my point of the above rambling is that if you're shooting f/1.4 primes for the light (because you need a fast[Ish] shutter speed and low[Ish] ISO), and not specifically the shallow DOF, then this f/2.0 zoom may well give you the flexibility of a zoom, whilst actually getting you image noise levels that aren't that much worse than an f/1.4 prime. An interesting proposition for indoor sports shooters maybe.

The falloff point varies with pixel size. With pixels the size of the EOS R pixels, I'd guess that there is some small loss already at f/2 but it increases with lower f-ratios. This effect is absent or less pronounced with BSI, from what I understand. I wish someone was measuring this for all cameras.

This, of course, interferes with DOF equivalence for smaller pixels in the low f-ratios, and it robs the RAW files of dynamic range, when the manufacturer increases arithmetic gain in the RAW files to compensate, to meet their standards.

There should be a custom function to prevent this, and bypass the exposure/ISO -> brightness standard which is counterproductive to the RAW shooter.




  
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Oct 08, 2018 08:47 |  #1735

John Sheehy wrote in post #18724707 (external link)
You can do that without tape, by just unscrewing the lens enough so that the pins don't communicate. Remember not to leave the camera that way, though, as you may forget, and drop the lens.

Yep. I just didn't want to waffle on too much further with my original post ;-)a

John Sheehy wrote in post #18724707 (external link)
The falloff point varies with pixel size. With pixels the size of the EOS R pixels, I'd guess that there is some small loss already at f/2 but it increases with lower f-ratios. This effect is absent or less pronounced with BSI, from what I understand. I wish someone was measuring this for all cameras.

This, of course, interferes with DOF equivalence for smaller pixels in the low f-ratios, and it robs the RAW files of dynamic range, when the manufacturer increases arithmetic gain in the RAW files to compensate, to meet their standards.

There should be a custom function to prevent this, and bypass the exposure/ISO -> brightness standard which is counterproductive to the RAW shooter.

Didn't know the issue was reduced with BSI sensors - interesting.

I guess the custom function is... tape... or a third party lens. To add a function to a camera would be to implicitly admit you were "cheating" the customer with your ultra fast glass; unless it were obscured with some suitable marketing waffle.


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Oct 08, 2018 13:23 |  #1736

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18724166 (external link)
.... but if we take your first paragraph to be applicable, then being the only ship available, the current EOS R has to carry the flag :)
Once the newer body is out, the flag will transfer to it.

 :p <-- tongue in cheek.


I suppose that when times are really tough, an admiral will demean himself on a frigate rather than on a cruiser or destroyer!


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Oct 08, 2018 19:25 |  #1737

Northrup's video had me laughing in a good way.

Unlike Sony where people exclaimed about bodies needing lenses, here we see Tony exclaiming about lenses needing bodies. With the EOS R though, it is a different twist because the adapters give no shortage of lenses for that body.

I already know a Canon FF mirrorless will be going in my bag. But my curiosity is building more around anticipation of future lenses.


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Oct 09, 2018 06:23 |  #1738

Just got an email from Best Buy that my camera is ready for pickup but the adapter got pushed back to 10/15. UGH. Did everyone's release date on the control ring adapter get pushed back?


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Oct 09, 2018 06:47 as a reply to  @ sourcehill's post |  #1739

Time to make a pinhole lens.


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Oct 09, 2018 09:57 |  #1740

sourcehill wrote in post #18725347 (external link)
Just got an email from Best Buy that my camera is ready for pickup but the adapter got pushed back to 10/15. UGH. Did everyone's release date on the control ring adapter get pushed back?

My body with the kit lens arrives today from Adorama, but the control ring adapter is "processing" and does not have a ship date listed.




  
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