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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 12 Oct 2018 (Friday) 13:18
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Sony ARIII , Canon EOS R or Sony AIII

 
dr.alshatti
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Oct 12, 2018 13:18 |  #1

hi ,
I am amateur photographer , with interest in Macro , Portrait and sometimes landscape . I have been using my camera for the past 10 years now i think a canon D450 , unfortunately i started to use it less and less due to quality issues . currently I have 50 mm 1.8 , 100 mm 2.8 and 24-105 mm F4 ,and a couple of speedlites for canon as well . I have been thinking about an upgrade and i was looking at the D5 IV However with the new mirrorless coming out i became very skeptical . Should i just go and try getting the New Canon EOS R cause the transition would be easy for me with the lenses and every thing .. or should i make a switch to Sony , my budget is flexible since i am going to use it for a while as well

thanks for your help in advance




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Oct 12, 2018 13:31 |  #2

In your post, you appear top be balancing 2.5 options. (The ".5" being the 5D IV.)

5D4 is an amazing camera, the best I have owned. With the EOS R you will get the image quality of the 5D4, but the interface will be somewhat different. Still Canon-like though.
Going SONY will be a whole different ballgame.

Based on your current lens collection, I wouldn't let that stop you from going in any direction. Sure you can use them with the EOS-R, they are native on the 5D4,. but I wouldn't let that hold you back from a brand change if you are interested. Plus if you really are invested in them, you can adapt to SONY too.


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Croasdail
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Oct 12, 2018 20:19 |  #3

I have both.... been a Canon shooter for decades. I now shoot Sony 95% of the time via adapted Canon L lenses. I am extremely happy with the kit. But that said, if you are casual to semi-casual, I don't see anything the EOR R won't do for you - and I would recommend going that direction.


Mark
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artsf
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Post edited 4 months ago by artsf. (3 edits in all)
     
Oct 12, 2018 22:36 |  #4

dr.alshatti wrote in post #18727564 (external link)
hi ,
I am amateur photographer , with interest in Macro , Portrait and sometimes landscape . I have been using my camera for the past 10 years now i think a canon D450 , unfortunately i started to use it less and less due to quality issues . currently I have 50 mm 1.8 , 100 mm 2.8 and 24-105 mm F4 ,and a couple of speedlites for canon as well . I have been thinking about an upgrade and i was looking at the D5 IV However with the new mirrorless coming out i became very skeptical . Should i just go and try getting the New Canon EOS R cause the transition would be easy for me with the lenses and every thing .. or should i make a switch to Sony , my budget is flexible since i am going to use it for a while as well

thanks for your help in advance

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18726189 (external link)
We were typing/posting together.

Gotta give them time to round out the R.

I think for your purpose, 6dii will do just fine and will save you a lot of money. EOS R is really a hybrid camera, you are paying for high end video features and if you are not interested in videography then 6dii will give you excellent results for portraits and landscapes. I would never recommend Sony for amateurs because both A7riii and A7iii require significant color correction to its raw files (hues, luminance and saturation) with no single preset working for every file, this is an addition to longstanding AWB problems. It works well for many people but after they’ve developed good post processing skills and if they enjoy the workflow. With Canon EOS R, 6dii or 5div you’ll get instantly tuned raw and jpeg files, one button click batch raw conversion in LR.




  
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Croasdail
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Oct 12, 2018 23:12 |  #5

"both A7riii and A7iii require significant color correction to its raw files (hues, luminance and saturation) with no single preset working for every file, this is an addition to longstanding AWB problems. It works well for many people but after they’ve developed good post processing skills and if they enjoy the workflow."

Where is this coming from? Do you shoot these? I do.... and not at all my experience. In Lightroom I have a preset for my canons which gets the reds under control and I have one for my Sonys that takes the yellows down. That is about it. Absolutely no issues with white balance with either. Really not sure where that information is coming from. Not my experience at all.

As far as the video.... there are some real issues with the EOS R for serious videography - like lacking zebra stripping.

Not having an EVF - now that I am used to using one - I would prefer never to go back to using a standard viewfinder. No need to chimp my photos.... I know exactly what the exposure will be, I know my DoF, I know exactly what will, and what will not be in focus (focus peaking).... I wish the 7III had the higher def evf of the 7rIII - but its about compromises. The files from the 7rIII are so large, my mac takes a while to fully load them. But having the depth and that size...gives ya tons of flexibility.

Thats what I do like about the EOR R.... it has that 30 mpx sensor....a lot more information to deal work with. 6D II was dated the day it shipped. Decent sensor... but on most other levels it is already dated.

6D is a good camera. But it isn't a camera I would choose over the EOS R


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RPCrowe
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Oct 13, 2018 09:57 |  #6

I have shot with Canon gear for more years than I like to remember and had some brand loyalty...

However, I have just begun shooting with a crop sensor Sony A6500 and have fallen in love with that camera for casual shooting. It is just so much fun to shoot!

I presently use the Canon 7D2 and 6D2 cameras as well as the Sony A6500. To tell you the truth. I have been very disappointed with the auto focus of the 6D2 with its AF points clustered in the center of the frame.

You cannot place a focus point on a subject's eyes in a head and shoulders portrait. Focus and recompose is an option but, is not a great choice when shooting with the sliver thin DOF of a lens like the 85mm f/1.2 or even an f/1.4 lens. Slight subject and/or camera movement between focus and shooting can easily throw the focus off the eye or eye just enough to spoil the portrait.

The 6D2 with dual pixel AF in liveview with face detection selected will do a pretty good job in nailing focus on the eyes but, IMO, using liveview in the bright sun is a big PITA. I have added a SWIVI viewer to my 6D2 which makes it a decent focusing combination but that makes the 6D2 large and ungainly and it still doesn't focus as well as the Sony line.

I LOVE the eye AF of the Sony A6500:love: I can shoot using my eye level viewfinder and nail the eye focus every time easily. The A6500 is easily customizable and I switched the btton for Eye AF from the center rear button to the AEL button which is right under my thumb when shooting. I love also being able to review my images using the eye level viewfinder.

The A6500 is a crop camera but provides excellent image quality. Another factor that I like about this camera is its form factor. It is about as light as my little Canon SX50-HS but, the image size and quality as well as the AF blows the SX50-HS out of the water as does the availability of using interchangeable lenses with faster apertures.

I can carry my A6500 plus a mid-range zoom, a wide angle prime and a 50mm lens, which is great for portraiture, at a very light combined weight. This is the camera for a person traveling who has a very limited weight allowance on an airline.

The A6500 is a camera that the Black Rapid Strap works great with because of its light weight and small size.

I have been a bit disappointed in the adapting of my Canon glass.I can adapt some of my Canon glass but, lose eye AF when doing so. In fact, I will use my 85mm f/1.8 Canon with an MC-11 adapter in manual mode. The focus peaking of the A6500 make manual shooting very easy and it is easier than focus and recompose.

Finally, the A6500 adapts to many lenses, some of which have particular characteristics such as the 58mm f/2 Russian Helios with its swirly bokeh. As with the 85mm f/1.8 Canon, focus peaking makes manual focusing with this lens a breeze.

I am seriously considering dumping all my Canon gear and getting a Sony A7iii with some native Sony and/or Sony mount Sigma lenses.


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Mookalafalas
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Oct 13, 2018 11:02 |  #7

If you are thinking of getting a 5D IV, now is a great time, as they can be purchased second hand for low prices. It's a great camera. That said, I just put mine up for sale today (at a local shop). Over the last year or two I bought several of the new Sigma lenses due to their great specs. However, I got so turned off by how GIANT and HEAVY everything got that I've decided to switch over completely to Sony, or maybe even just focus on M4/3 (I've had a secondary M4/3 system for years). Sony certainly seems like the more exciting company. Their new products always deliver more than you would expect, whereas Canon rarely surprises in that way:rolleyes: That said, you already have a lot of good Canon gear. If you don't mind the size, the 5D4 is awesome and does almost everything really well--and its price keeps going down.


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davesrose
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Oct 13, 2018 21:11 |  #8

I've never understood why folks go on about color science with a particular camera brand. All these cameras have easy controls for changing color balance. There are times I do use auto white balance with my Canon cameras, and I have preferred their *general* red hue. However, a lot of the photos I'm taking now is portraits. I start with a custom white balance I have taken with the studio flashes I have. I further pinpoint color balance by having my subject first hold up a Color Passport with my first photo. I find the difference between the custom WB I have and the Color Passport tends to be very minimal...and then I just pick the one that I think looks the best. So with this situation, I've already strayed from AWB. I've also had situations where I've had to color match Nikon and Canon cameras: I've found that as long as you can dial the same K value, they all do look pretty identical when it comes to color.


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EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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artsf
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Oct 14, 2018 00:07 |  #9

davesrose wrote in post #18728341 (external link)
I've never understood why folks go on about color science with a particular camera brand. All these cameras have easy controls for changing color balance. There are times I do use auto white balance with my Canon cameras, and I have preferred their *general* red hue. However, a lot of the photos I'm taking now is portraits. I start with a custom white balance I have taken with the studio flashes I have. I further pinpoint color balance by having my subject first hold up a Color Passport with my first photo. I find the difference between the custom WB I have and the Color Passport tends to be very minimal...and then I just pick the one that I think looks the best. So with this situation, I've already strayed from AWB. I've also had situations where I've had to color match Nikon and Canon cameras: I've found that as long as you can dial the same K value, they all do look pretty identical when it comes to color.

The OP said - amateur photographer. All those skills with adjusting WB, using color checker and develop raw processing skills is far from amateur. And I had to do all of that and much more when I had A7rii - I never have to do any of that crap with 5div and M50. I would never recommend Sony for an amateur but it is valid choice for many enthusiats and professionals who have developed a workflow and will benefit from the value that Sony currently offers. EOS R can literally be picked up by a total newbie and produce epic results within hours.




  
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JeffreyG
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Post edited 4 months ago by JeffreyG. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 14, 2018 07:57 |  #10

artsf wrote in post #18728412 (external link)
The OP said - amateur photographer. All those skills with adjusting WB, using color checker and develop raw processing skills is far from amateur. And I had to do all of that and much more when I had A7rii - I never have to do any of that crap with 5div and M50. I would never recommend Sony for an amateur but it is valid choice for many enthusiats and professionals who have developed a workflow and will benefit from the value that Sony currently offers. EOS R can literally be picked up by a total newbie and produce epic results within hours.

I'd venture that the kind of person who is going to be bothered by small differences in color science is the same kind of person who will know how to adjust the color to match whatever they want. The differences in color are pretty subtle, at least for most non-photographers. My wife cannot really see a difference between the colors if I use the same import settings. I guess at the end of this thought.....we are talking about OP looking at pretty expensive 35mm format cameras (A7r3, A73, EOS R, 5D4). If a person isn't interested in the details on the output, we should probably be shifting to looking at cheaper cameras.

Given what the OP shoots and owns, I'd suggest replacing the 450D with a 5D4 or 6D2 or the R. But I'd be tempted to wait on the R until I see more lens and body releases to see where Canon is headed.

For someone like the OP but not having much of a kit right now, I would suggest the Sony A7r3. It's a better camera than the R, and sells for very close to the same price. The A73 is nice as well and is cheaper than the R, but given the OP's subjects the 42MP sensor would be preferred. Sony has a more complete lens lineup in MILC cameras at the moment as well. If I was starting from scratch, I would not buy an RF mount camera and a bunch of EF mount lenses.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Oct 14, 2018 14:51 |  #11

Is $3K really close to the same price as $2,300.00?


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JeffreyG
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Oct 14, 2018 15:13 |  #12

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18728733 (external link)
Is $3K really close to the same price as $2,300.00?

The cameras mentioned in this thread have ranged from a low of $1600 (6D2) to a high of $3100 (5D4). That's new pricing at a major retailer, no special discounts, Greentoe, used, refurbished, etc.

I suppose these are all within a range, even though the span places the top model at 2X the bottom:

6D2 - $1600
A7III - $2000
EOS R - $2300
A7rIII - $3000
5D4 - $3100

OP said he was thinking about a 5D4, so I figure that makes all of these plausible, some make for a nice savings.


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Charlie
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Oct 14, 2018 16:13 |  #13

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18728733 (external link)
Is $3K really close to the same price as $2,300.00?

The camera can be found for 2300-2500 on green toe (USA authorized seller), and if in the market for one, you probably shouldn't be paying full retail. That's the advantage of mature products!


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dr.alshatti
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Oct 14, 2018 18:00 |  #14

First of all thank you all for all the great input! that was really nice of all of u .. i should really quote each one of you and reply to each one of u .. however my forum skills are quite outdated .. so sorry for that .

a bit of clarification, yes am amateur photographer however i do enjoy PS / LR , aand i am not pro by any means but i have some experience in editing my pics .
In regard of videos , the thing is i never tried to shoot videos with DSLR as you know the D450 is old enough that it doesn't have video option in it . so i dont know what am missing , do i think i need it ? yeah propably i do as i have three young kids and i have been using my phone camera to take video with for the past few years .

for those who recommended 5D IV , what i am really missing by just going for the newer EOS R and not buying the 5D IV ? as far as i know ( and i dont know much in this field ) am loosing an excellent battery .. but almost everything else is the same basically ? and the RF mount should be fully compatible with the EF lenses as far as the reviews says . as much as i wanted to get the 5D i just feel it is getting older and that i am buying already outdated camera ... most likely i will be using it at least for the next 5-8 years ..

for those who got both the A7RIII and D5 IV , hows is the compatibility of Canon lenses with Sony ? can i actually use my own lenses or do i have to get all new lenses ? are they close to the native Sony lenses in term of compatibility ?

Yes Part of me is like this is straight forward .. i should buy a canon i have a canon lenses and am used to Canon . The other part is .. the 5D IV is quite outdated , the EOS R is new D5 IV , an excellent camera however it is less than the Sony

the Sony sound wonderful but hows the compatibility with the lenses that i have ?

Most likley i will purchase a lens as well soon .. i am thinking of 70-200mm 2.8 which either going to be a sony or Canon ..

I am really thankfull for all of ur replies here.I have learned from each one of you .


thanks




  
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JeffreyG
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Oct 14, 2018 19:26 |  #15

dr.alshatti wrote in post #18728843 (external link)
for those who recommended 5D IV , what i am really missing by just going for the newer EOS R and not buying the 5D IV ? as far as i know ( and i dont know much in this field ) am loosing an excellent battery .. but almost everything else is the same basically ? and the RF mount should be fully compatible with the EF lenses as far as the reviews says . as much as i wanted to get the 5D i just feel it is getting older and that i am buying already outdated camera ... most likely i will be using it at least for the next 5-8 years ..

To me the EOS R seems a lot more like a MILC version of the 6D than a MILC 5D. The camera is pretty slow in some ways....the true, hitting focus burst rate with AF as a priority is 3 fps. the 5D4 is going to be a much better camera in shooting action, I would imagine. That may or may not be important to you, but I tend to find that people with kids wind up shooting action. I don't have experience with it's AF system though......the one on the 6D 1/2 leaves a lot to be desired.

for those who got both the A7RIII and D5 IV , hows is the compatibility of Canon lenses with Sony ? can i actually use my own lenses or do i have to get all new lenses ? are they close to the native Sony lenses in term of compatibility ?

Adapted lenses on Sony are great for landscape work, portraits in good light, still life shots. They are not great for action or shooting in low light in general. I think a lot of Canon shooters moved to Sony under the premise of dipping a toe and using their adapted Canon lenses. These users all wound up getting Sony lenses pretty quickly if they decided to stay.

I have a pretty complete Sony kit, but I do still adapt my Canon 24-70/2.8L II and 70-200/2.8 IS II, as these two lenses work really well on the Sony.

That said, in low light the 70-200/2.8L IS II will hunt for focus on the Sony in light levels that would give my 5D3 absolutely no problems.


My personal stuff:http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jngirbach/sets/ (external link)
I use a Canon 5DIII and a Sony A7rIII

  
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Sony ARIII , Canon EOS R or Sony AIII
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