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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Sep 2018 (Wednesday) 02:31
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POLL: "How's the new EOS-R stack up for you?"
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EOS-R - It's out. Thoughts?

 
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mcoren
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Oct 27, 2018 10:06 |  #2161

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18737561 (external link)
IBIS is a tool, just like AF, AWB, metering, and a host of others that everyone expects in a modern body. I remember the same exact ridicule and disdain for those that wanted a tool called "Live View". However now, it is an integrated and expected function, and in fact with mirrorless, is mandatory. ;)

It must be important enough, Canon just filed a patent for this, and already backed off their stance that stabilization should be a lens thing only.

And let's not forget all of the ridicule and disdain for that other unnecessary feature: autofocus.

I suppose the same was said about in-camera metering once upon a time, but that was before my time. :)

Mike


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JeffreyG
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Oct 27, 2018 10:24 |  #2162

mdvaden wrote in post #18737393 (external link)
Not particularly. Canon has some tech that Sony does not have, as is vice versa. One small part I'm going to enjoy are the 4 extra lens pins and 3rd control ring. Just started shopping for the control adapter tonight so that when my RF lens arrives, I can enjoy the same with my EF lenses. From what I can tell, the A9, although maybe faster FPS, may not out-perform the EOS R for low light focusing. But more will be learned in that point.

True enough that we don't know everything on how the EOS-R will perform, but it is not a speedy camera like the A9.

One point to clear up here, I don't think of body sizes, or choices on controls as "tech". The ring on the RF lenses is a design choice, not a technology. The stacked BSI sensor in the A9 is a "technology" in that it is a specific kind of sensor. All of the A9 superlatives in performance (fast read speeds, no-blackout shooting, lighting fast AF, high frame rate) are a result of this technology.

The on-sensor A/D conversion that Sony pioneered with the first exmor sensor is likewise a "technology" and is a big part of why Sony (and Nikon's with Sony sensors) has been the industry leader in having low read noise and large dynamic range.

Near $4000 the A9 should perform great, and apparently it's a great camera. On the other hand, not even counting the EOS R, I'm accustomed to the 5DS's mighty 50 megapixels, and can't see myself sliding back to a small 24 megapixel sensor. Not at four thousand dollars certainly, and probably not at $3K either. The EOS also outperforms the A9 for focus points too. I don't need that many, but thought it was fair seeing you mentioned the A9 to show how Sony "throttled" back that feature.

I'm not sure the differences in absolute numbers of points matters much. What we have now gotten in MILC cameras are hybrid AF systems with points spread all the way across the image. That's a game changer, but also now a feature found on all the options from Canon, Nikon, and Sony. But if one has 400 points and another has 600, it probably makes no difference.

If you want a high resolution camera, Sony has the A7rIII, which I would argue has a better sensor for landscape work that the 5DS.

Also ... the A9 just isn't a Pro size body. To me, it's laughable that Sony's techs are so wrapped up in specs and data sheets, that the A9 ergonomics barely handle all of a photographer's fingers. So with so many other capable cameras on the market from Canon and Nikon, I can't imagine dumping four grand into a child hand size camera with only 24 Megapixel resolution regardless of it's frame rate or IBIS. The foundation needs to be fixed first.

Having owned 1D bodies, 5D bodies, and Sony alpha bodies I would say that I do not prefer the mass of the 1D. I don't really care about what random people think is "pro" looking enough. The fact is that the 1D is pretty dang heavy and I don't care to cart one around. Once the 5D3 was released, I grabbed one, dumped my 1D Mark IV and never looked back.

I do mount an L plate on my Sony most of the time, which is convenient for being able to slap the camera on a tripod at any time and which (to me at least) solves any minor ergonomic concerns with the grip. And yet, when I put my 5D and A7rIII side by side, the Sony is just so much smaller. I can carry a very complete kit for the Sony in a 10L bag, which is never enough with the 5D.

I think Canon can get to a tempting system, and while the R has too many misses for me in the first look, the next releases might be great. What I'm more interested in is where the RF lenses will be going. I don't own Sony GM lenses because they are too big and heavy. The RF 28-70 and 50 likewise are not of interest. On the other hand, the 24-105 and 35 both show a better direction. Let's see what else Canon releases, but the rumored 24/1.2 isn't heading in the right direction, unless it is as small as the new Sony GM 1.4/24.


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umphotography
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Oct 27, 2018 10:48 |  #2163

JeffreyG wrote in post #18737722 (external link)
True enough that we don't know everything on how the EOS-R will perform, but it is not a speedy camera like the A9.

One point to clear up here, I don't think of body sizes, or choices on controls as "tech". The ring on the RF lenses is a design choice, not a technology. The stacked BSI sensor in the A9 is a "technology" in that it is a specific kind of sensor. All of the A9 superlatives in performance (fast read speeds, no-blackout shooting, lighting fast AF, high frame rate) are a result of this technology.

The on-sensor A/D conversion that Sony pioneered with the first exmor sensor is likewise a "technology" and is a big part of why Sony (and Nikon's with Sony sensors) has been the industry leader in having low read noise and large dynamic range.

I'm not sure the differences in absolute numbers of points matters much. What we have now gotten in MILC cameras are hybrid AF systems with points spread all the way across the image. That's a game changer, but also now a feature found on all the options from Canon, Nikon, and Sony. But if one has 400 points and another has 600, it probably makes no difference.

If you want a high resolution camera, Sony has the A7rIII, which I would argue has a better sensor for landscape work that the 5DS.

Having owned 1D bodies, 5D bodies, and Sony alpha bodies I would say that I do not prefer the mass of the 1D. I don't really care about what random people think is "pro" looking enough. The fact is that the 1D is pretty dang heavy and I don't care to cart one around. Once the 5D3 was released, I grabbed one, dumped my 1D Mark IV and never looked back.

I do mount an L plate on my Sony most of the time, which is convenient for being able to slap the camera on a tripod at any time and which (to me at least) solves any minor ergonomic concerns with the grip. And yet, when I put my 5D and A7rIII side by side, the Sony is just so much smaller. I can carry a very complete kit for the Sony in a 10L bag, which is never enough with the 5D.

I think Canon can get to a tempting system, and while the R has too many misses for me in the first look, the next releases might be great. What I'm more interested in is where the RF lenses will be going. I don't own Sony GM lenses because they are too big and heavy. The RF 28-70 and 50 likewise are not of interest. On the other hand, the 24-105 and 35 both show a better direction. Let's see what else Canon releases, but the rumored 24/1.2 isn't heading in the right direction, unless it is as small as the new Sony GM 1.4/24.


I have put everything on hold until the next R Body announcement.

The R glass images that I have seen are beyond impressive. I have never seen optics this good and that includes Zeiss. I am more than good with what I use right now. I LOVE the 1Dx2. Its still the best body I have ever used and the Focus system on it is the best i have ever used. In the past 2 yrs I have never missed a shot with servo use with brides walking down this Isle. Not a single miss. Thats about 50 weddings. and when I shoot wldlife I am at ease. Its killer and rarely miss anything. So Im still blown away with the 1Dx2

I need to replace an older 5D3 body. Its a back up body and I still use it a lot. I looked closely at Sony and the A7iii.....just not a fit for me. Too invested with canon and adapter use is not there with performance for a giy who has been on 1D bodies since 2007. Sony was not going to happen

I was content to stay put. The big decider for me is the optics. They will change the game and DSLR shooters are going to jump ship. Canon releases an R body with dual cards and Im buying it. End of conversation. Optics have changed my mind entirely. The 24-105 is impressive and I love that 50R. Just a wow for me

Jeff you are right in your thoughts. I think they will release some additional mind blowing lens and a 2 slot body aimed at pros.....The DSLR is DOA at this next release.....I think you can bank on that. and the reason it will be dead is because Canon is going to introduce optics that are superior for the R line up and the current L lens line up will stagnate. They will put out more 24-105 releases for the L lens line up. And thats going to kill it for pros


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mdvaden
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Post edited 3 months ago by mdvaden. (6 edits in all)
     
Oct 27, 2018 15:17 |  #2164

JeffreyG wrote in post #18737722 (external link)
I'm not sure the differences in absolute numbers of points matters much. What we have now gotten in MILC cameras are hybrid AF systems with points spread all the way across the image. That's a game changer, but also now a feature found on all the options from Canon, Nikon, and Sony. But if one has 400 points and another has 600, it probably makes no difference.

If you want a high resolution camera, Sony has the A7rIII, which I would argue has a better sensor for landscape work that the 5DS.

You carry on a good conversation ... kudos !!

RE the A7R iii, the redwoods is my main arena for comparison and I think the Sony is barely better, if any. I also find that a lot of Sony (and even Canon) shooters misuse dynamic range and HDR. The shadows in the redwood forests are so grand that sometimes it's best not to mess with them. Attached is a 5DS sample, and I don't think a Sony would improve on the look and detail in this setting. An image like the one below is somewhat my benchmark. I find the color of the M5 to be equally as good as the 5DS in the redwoods. But the image quality is better with full frame like 5D mk iii and 5DS. So I'm certain the EOS R will be perfect for this redwood landscape photography and portraits in the redwoods.

RE the body size of the 1DX mk ii ... I understand what you mean. It's beefy for an all around camera. Although, I do use a chainsaw often for pruning profession, and most cameras like that are like marshmallow weight compared to a tool that's used for hours as an arborist. But I do rotate work to where a handsaw is used.

As for the EOS R, I'm sure it will see the redwood forest this month. With the RF 50mm 1.2 for certain. But if I can get the ring adapter, there are three EF lenses I want to try on that body in the forest. Meanwhile, try the Zoom to 100% feature on this image ... it looks almost like standing there. 1/4 second with a breeze blowing.


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cug
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Oct 28, 2018 00:22 |  #2165

Did I miss something or is there no way to put "Metering Mode" selection on a customizable button? I can't find a way.




  
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welshwizard1971
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Oct 28, 2018 03:44 |  #2166

I've seen a few mentions of 'converging triangles' when focusing in manual, could someone help explain what this means please?


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Oct 28, 2018 04:06 |  #2167

samueli wrote in post #18737029 (external link)
I spent my lens budget for the next few years on a 16-35 and 24-70 just this summer. Is that another bad purchasing choice I hear?

So you own these lenses, and you own the R, and rather than actually using them and determining for yourself, you are reading other's opinions and watching other's videos?

Get out and use your gear, man. Don't let the crowd make up your mind.



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Post edited 3 months ago by Left Handed Brisket. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 28, 2018 04:11 |  #2168

welshwizard1971 wrote in post #18738139 (external link)
I've seen a few mentions of 'converging triangles' when focusing in manual, could someone help explain what this means please?

You choose an area where you want to focus and on the evf / live view display is a superimposed graphic that shows when that area is in focus. Kinda like a light meter graphic when the focus is sharpest the triangles are in the middle and then turn green. Hard to describe, I know this thread is long, but a YouTube video was posted of it earlier.


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Oct 28, 2018 05:02 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #2169

Missed that, ta for the help I'll track it down :)


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Oct 28, 2018 05:47 |  #2170

So are the converging triangles superior to focus peaking?


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Oct 28, 2018 06:47 |  #2171

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18738190 (external link)
So are the converging triangles superior to focus peaking?

It is an alternative, not replacement, I think it comes from the Cinema series and has advantages for video focus pullers. Let me see if I can dig up the info I saw.


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Oct 28, 2018 07:31 |  #2172

This doesn't describe in detail the triangle thing, but shows it in action.

2:30 mark



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Oct 28, 2018 08:18 |  #2173

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18738190 (external link)
So are the converging triangles superior to focus peaking?

I have them both turned on for MF. The peaking is subtle compared to what magic lantern did. The triangles are more prominent.




  
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Oct 28, 2018 08:30 |  #2174

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18738143 (external link)
So you own these lenses, and you own the R, and rather than actually using them and determining for yourself, you are reading other's opinions and watching other's videos?

Get out and use your gear, man. Don't let the crowd make up your mind.


I do and I don't, since I already made my choice. I just get tired of reading comments of Sony or bust. I wish Canon would put out, instead of dangling this camera then in a few months dangling the good camera, temping me into the next camera and spending an atrocious amount of money overall to get the rest of the features that should've been on one camera. I don't upgrade cameras that often, and now I'll be doing it twice in one year.

I kind of even like the lens retract feature of the R when you turn it off. Never had that before.

What was the video?




  
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Oct 28, 2018 08:39 as a reply to  @ samueli's post |  #2175

Fixed video.

Grass is always greener, blah, blah blah.

I guess I get some of the frustration, but it seems to have hit you hard with the camera and then snuck into your thinking with the lenses and entire ecosystem. Just a lot of lost energy to put into something. They were clear on the roadmap before the camera shipped.

Don't let the fanboy turkeys get you down. :D


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