Canon EOS R has Crucified my thoughts about changing to Sony

mdvaden wrote in post #18743654
No ... that's what oozed from your cranium. What I wrote is what I said, with no particular interpretation needed.

The EOS R is unique, has some features no other mirrorless have and matches up to lenses in a way only the EOS R can.

I guess I'm missing it then. What I clearly read was that you do not think it matters how the EOS-R matches up to other camera systems. What matters is it works with Canon. And I guess if you are a Canon shooter who isn't willing to consider switching systems for any reason, that's probably true.

I'd like to see Canon work harder to attract people who do not have a system, or work harder to retain their existing customers who are willing to try another system. I'm one of those customers and I do not see a camera in the EOS-R that makes me want it over what else is available. I do think it is a reasonably nice camera....It's a little expensive for what is essentially a MILC 6D Mark II, but it is not fatally flawed. It just isn't super compelling either.....kind of like the 6D Mark II. If the RF lens line fills out with lenses I would be interested in.....and a better body comes along, I might change my mind. It depends a lot on if the directions keeps going 28-70 and 50/1.2 (no thanks) or more 24-105 and 35/1.8.

And this could be one of those 'features I care about / don't care about' kind of things.....but what features do you see the EOS-R offering that are not available from other manufacturers? I can think of a few small things.....like the converging triangles might be a nice way to interact with MF lenses. But I don't see a big list and (at least for me) no major functions that would really be enablers for things I want to do.

mdvaden wrote in post #18743654
No ... that's from your cranium. What I wrote is what I said in a couple paragraphs above, with no particular interpretation needed.

The EOS R is unique, has some features no other mirrorless have and matches up to lenses in a way only the EOS R can. Ergonomically, it is the most comfortable Canon body I have owned so far.

I think it's quite easy to see that many here like Canon colour science and own Canon products.

Just a matter of time till they improve the limited feature EOS R. We are talking 2018-19 specs vs other brands.

I love the image quality I am seeing with the EOS R but as I couldn't wait for canon PRE Eos R release. I happily bought a Sony A7iii for mirrorless FF fun. I'm not the sort that jumped out and bought the mirrorless crop canon (thank goodness!!!!). I'll watch the evolution of the EOS R and buy it when it grows with more native glass.

AS a full frame system I already have all it really need with my mirrored bodies. I still would like to keep mirrored for low light stills vs mirrorless.

For video casual fun the A73 has quiet lenses for AF. If I jumped into a "casual" system the RF glass is still in it's infancy and using adapted EF glass isn't much smaller than my 5dmk4. Also taking casual family documentation the Current canon system will buzzzzzzzzzz!!!! as AF it working with casual family documentation.

I think many Canon users are tickled to see a mirrorless full frame and enjoy the benefits of mirrorless tech. I just do not respect Canon for slowly introducing features when they fully understand other have it.

AlanU wrote in post #18743690
I think it's quite easy to see that many here like Canon colour science and own Canon products.

Just a matter of time till they improve the limited feature EOS R. We are talking 2018-19 specs vs other brands.

I love the image quality I am seeing with the EOS R but as I couldn't wait for canon PRE Eos R release. I happily bought a Sony A7iii for mirrorless FF fun. I'm not the sort that jumped out and bought the mirrorless crop canon (thank goodness!!!!). I'll watch the evolution of the EOS R and buy it when it grows with more native glass.

I don't shoot action, for which I would look to another body like the 7D mk ii or 1DX ii. My shooting is mostly individuals, couples, groups and some scenery. So the EOS fits perfect to my shooting.

Having seen it before I bought it, and afterward, it's not longer a comparison to Sony thing for me. The image quality is just so good, and with lenses I already have. If anything, I would compare it to what I already have been shooting with. It's better than my 5D mk iii. images as pleasing as my 5DS, and the new RF 50mm is on par with a Zeiss Milvus 85mm I bought last year.

The EOS R is just the next building block in my gear. I'm looking forward to future new features, bodies and lenses also.

mdvaden wrote in post #18743967
I don't shoot action, for which I would look to another body like the 7D mk ii or 1DX ii. My shooting is mostly individuals, couples, groups and some scenery. So the EOS fits perfect to my shooting.

Having seen it before I bought it, and afterward, it's not longer a comparison to Sony thing for me. The image quality is just so good, and with lenses I already have. If anything, I would compare it to what I already have been shooting with. It's better than my 5D mk iii. images as pleasing as my 5DS, and the new RF 50mm is on par with a Zeiss Milvus 85mm I bought last year.

The EOS R is just the next building block in my gear. I'm looking forward to future new features, bodies and lenses also.

I can see you really dig the EOS R.

I'm predicting that I'll be spending a big chunk of change eventually in the Canon EOS R system and native glass. If Canon had an RF mount 16-35 f/2.8IS and RF mount 24Lmk2 equivalence I'd really consider sooner than later. However even for my casual fun nature single card slot is a total deal breaker. Even the AF hunting in low light with mirrorless camera's puts me at odds. This is where I just have 99.99999999% confidence in mirrored bodies with external flash with red focus assist.

What I prefer is no reflection of what others should follow. At this moment I really only use my mirrorless bodies for casual fun nature and family documentation.

Like many others, I've just about given up on Canon bodies. I switched to Sony for my landscape and night photo purposes, years ago when the first A7R came out. Now, I still use a 5D3 but honestly, I only use it for what it's good for... AF. Which means I only use it for portrait work and things that move fast.

The new Canon R is interesting, but much too late to the party. I've actually grown accustomed to Sony and their bodies now and I doubt that I will ever come back...

But, honestly, I love my Canon glass and I don't see myself ever replacing it. Especially lenses like TS and fisheye and of course the 85L.

Maybe one day things will change, but the glacial rate that Canon moves, I will probably be one foot into my grave before they come out with an attractive option to me.

AlanU wrote in post #18744135
I can see you really dig the EOS R.

I'm predicting that I'll be spending a big chunk of change eventually in the Canon EOS R system and native glass. If Canon had an RF mount 16-35 f/2.8IS and RF mount 24Lmk2 equivalence I'd really consider sooner than later. However even for my casual fun nature single card slot is a total deal breaker. Even the AF hunting in low light with mirrorless camera's puts me at odds.

Which mirrorless have been hunting? Sony, or like Canon M5?

My EOS R seems way better than my 5D mk iii which I just sold. I'd never go back to the 5D mk iii again after having the EOS R. But I would consider the 5D mk iv though. Not to replace the EOS R, but alongside. I've still got the 5DS which shares many 5D mk iii options. For FASTER focusing of certain things, I will probably use the 5DS. For low light focus the EOS R leaves no question. No EF lens on my 5DS performs as nice as on the EOS R for moderate paced shooting. I can't wait to see what it does in the coast redwoods.

But I also have no beefs with the 5DS or M5 in the redwoods either. They are all very good and I'm keeping each one.

Actually, even version UNO of 16-35mm and version iii are so exceptional as EF lenses, I'm not sure if an RF model would open my wallet. I still have to try my 16-35 on the EOS R. Maybe this week, because I'm hoping to go to the redwood forest for a couple of days.

Todd Lambert wrote in post #18744158
Like many others, I've just about given up on Canon bodies. I switched to Sony for my landscape and night photo purposes, years ago when the first A7R came out. Now, I still use a 5D3 but honestly, I only use it for what it's good for... AF. Which means I only use it for portrait work and things that move fast.

For fast movement, I liked the 5D mk iii, but my 5DS is very similar and its the body I kept. For portraits and minimal movement, I think the EOS R will clean the clock of my 5D mk iii after seeing the image quality and its advanced performance with EF lenses.

But your Sony is a good performer, so I understand what you mean. It will certainly get you tons of great images.

I expect some weather sealing, and Sony doesn't seem to hold a candle in that arena and ergonomics. IBIS is a nothing burger compared to a weather sealed body with a broad assortment of IS lenses. So I can see why many others hold down the fort with their trustworthy Canons ... or Nikons

mdvaden wrote in post #18744194
Which mirrorless have been hunting? Sony, or like Canon M5?

My EOS R seems way better than my 5D mk iii which I just sold. I'd never go back to the 5D mk iii again after having the EOS R. But I would consider the 5D mk iv though. Not to replace the EOS R, but alongside. I've still got the 5DS which shares many 5D mk iii options. For FASTER focusing of certain things, I will probably use the 5DS. For low light focus the EOS R leaves no question. No EF lens on my 5DS performs as nice as on the EOS R for moderate paced shooting. I can't wait to see what it does in the coast redwoods.

But I also have no beefs with the 5DS or M5 in the redwoods either. They are all very good and I'm keeping each one.

Actually, even version UNO of 16-35mm and version iii are so exceptional as EF lenses, I'm not sure if an RF model would open my wallet. I still have to try my 16-35 on the EOS R. Maybe this week, because I'm hoping to go to the redwood forest for a couple of days.

The Fuji X-t2 I own will hunt in low light in some cases. Having my Godox 685F external flash actually emits a red beam and it helps lock AF but ever so slight improvement. My Sony A7iii with Godox V860ii S (lithium version) does not have any sort of AF focus assist beam. During Halloween my cheap (JK) Gmaster 16-35f/2.8 just ticked me off while I was infront of the house in the evening and the camera just hunted and hunted. Using the focus beam on mirrorless just is a piercing annoying light so I simply shut it off. This is where the red focus beam on a mirrored camera system is again superior in NOT annoying people while the camera gets help in AF.

Every mirrorless body cannot utilize red focus assist so bottom line mirrored bodies while using an external flash (using red focus assist) is superior to all mirrorless IMO. My current 5dmk3 and 4 NEVER hunts like how my Fuji or Sony hunts.

Yes indeed as far as available light is concerned most Mirrorless bodies will have the same light sensitivity to focus. The only difference is the mirrored bodies I own simply lock AF while using an external flash almost every single time. So far I cannot say the same for my Fuji or Sony.

For landscape I'll have to say I'd appreciate my my adapted Canon 16-35 f/2.8mk2 on my A73 for landscapes vs using my 5dmk3 and 4 with same lens. Sony just renders different for that sort of photography.

I haven't had the time to play much in that sort of photography using my GMaster 16-35 f/2.8 with my Sony A7iii.

The difference is I can walk over to my favourite local camera shop and buy a new 16-35 f/2.8mk3 but at the end of the day if I use my 5dmk4 w/ 16-35mk3 doing fun video clips with my mirrored 5mdk4........ the AF just makes the typical noisy buzzy AF noise while doing family documentation. This is where convenience and Sony A7iii with GM16-35 f/2.8 puts my Canon setup in the storage container.

This is a matter of Canon NOT meeting my needs for universal use of video and stills for a fun family camera system.

However for down right stills photography and no video application I'll grab my 5dmk4 without hesitation. Mirrored bodies for me still feel more responsive once you touch the shutter button. The Fuji and Sony still feel different to me with some propagation delay as I press the shutter button. My 5dmk3/4 still feel more "instant" in actuation. Perhaps this is EVF lag when I press the shutter button with my mirrorless system.

I have not used the M very much so I can't say much about it, but as you said, I know my 5D3 will always work for moving stuff, or if I need to work in a crappy environment. The weather sealing on the Sony is not as robust. That said, I've had the Sony bodies in some pretty awful places and conditions and I've never had a problem. I'm about to pull the trigger on a new mk3 Sony... and plan to use my original 7r for backup.

IBIS is a "nothing burger" compared to weather sealing? I guess that depends on what you're doing.

MedicineMan4040 has used an army of Sony bodies--a77ii, a99ii, a7rii, a7riii, a9, rx-10iv and rx-100v--to shoot wildlife in places as unforgiving as the rain forests of Central America and as cold as the nearly-uninhabitable town of Longyearbyen. Even when he shoots at home he's battling rain half the time in the mountains. For him switch from Canon and stay switched, is testimony enough for me to know Sony generally has enough weather sealing to shoot in most any conditions.

mickeyb105 wrote in post #18744457
IBIS is a "nothing burger" compared to weather sealing? I guess that depends on what you're doing.

MedicineMan4040 has used an army of Sony bodies--a77ii, a99ii, a7rii, a7riii, a9, rx-10iv and rx-100v--to shoot wildlife in places as unforgiving as the rain forests of Central America and as cold as the nearly-uninhabitable town of Longyearbyen. Even when he shoots at home he's battling rain half the time in the mountains. For him switch from Canon and stay switched, is testimony enough for me to know Sony generally has enough weather sealing to shoot in most any conditions.

Yes, but Nat Geo and other great photographers have done the same with Canon for superb shots. An honestly, the rain forests you speak of can at times be forgiving. The redwood rainforest of the the USA west coast has far thicker biomass per hectare, rugged, and over 100 inches of rain per year, mostly in a matter of months.

Because one name takes out Sony, doesn't really amount to much. Hence, keeping it's status as more of a nothing burger. Doesn't mean Sony is not great for photos. It just doesn't have features that make it leaps and bounds better as an overall camera. Even because Nat Geo used the Canon doesn't elevate it greatly either.

mdvaden wrote in post #18744200
I expect some weather sealing, and Sony doesn't seem to hold a candle in that arena and ergonomics. IBIS is a nothing burger compared to a weather sealed body with a broad assortment of IS lenses. So I can see why many others hold down the fort with their trustworthy Canons ... or Nikons

Referring to a quote from my own post ...

Not calling Sony bad. but other photographers have bodies with builds, components and capabilities that (for them) neutralizes much of what Sony puts on the shelf. So when there's a no-big-deal-difference for some people, "nothing burger" is a synonymous word.

Also, whereas you cut off a quote prior to "WITH" ... I included more of the quote for improved context.

The discussion on weather sealing is kind of weird. Check the lensrentals teardowns. If you want FF MILC with good sealing, get the Nikon Z7.

Sony sealing is pretty meh, and the Canon EOS R sealing is no better, if not worse.

What are we debating? Neither Canon or Sony have sealing I’d trust in rain without a bag.

mickeyb105 wrote in post #18744457
IBIS is a "nothing burger" compared to weather sealing? I guess that depends on what you're doing.

MedicineMan4040 has used an army of Sony bodies--a77ii, a99ii, a7rii, a7riii, a9, rx-10iv and rx-100v--to shoot wildlife in places as unforgiving as the rain forests of Central America and as cold as the nearly-uninhabitable town of Longyearbyen. Even when he shoots at home he's battling rain half the time in the mountains. For him switch from Canon and stay switched, is testimony enough for me to know Sony generally has enough weather sealing to shoot in most any conditions.

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I did have an a7rii that the rainforests and deserts of Madagascar turned into a paperweight in 4 days. That wasn't such a problem as I had backup gear but the worst part was dealing with Sony for repair. That is what really set Canon and Nikon apart for me. I just can't see anyone serious about photography or having to rely on gear putting up with the kind of service I got from Sony which amounted to a total brush off and a big loss for me. I can't say whether things have changed since but my point isn't about which is better or worse in absolute terms. At the end of the day the choices and circumstances that determine how satisfied an individual consumer may or may not be with a product are as individual as themselves. Beyond that you're debating in a vacuum. Who really cares what anyone else does when you're looking for a product that suits your individual needs. Just because NASA takes a certain camera into space it doesn't mean it is suitable for everyone.

JeffreyG wrote in post #18744501
The discussion on weather sealing is kind of weird. Check the lensrentals teardowns. If you want FF MILC with good sealing, get the Nikon Z7.

Sony sealing is pretty meh, and the Canon EOS R sealing is no better, if not worse.

What are we debating? Neither Canon or Sony have sealing I’d trust in rain without a bag.

There should be no particular debate. Someone else replied after I noted that Sony's sealing and IBIS may not amount to enough to sway various photographers who have good lens collections and well-sealed bodies to make a switch.

Although its not the EOS R, I'm glad you noted the Nikon Z7 because I was curious about the build. It's certainly not one I will be buying. But I was guessing from what Nikon has done in other bodies, it should be assembled rather nicely. My earlier replies were aimed more at Canon and other brands more pro bodies being sealed good, because the EOS R is not the top body I bought or will buy in the next year. It's just my extra. But I do appreciate that it's my first extra that will have images on par or nicer than my best body.

JeffreyG wrote in post #18744501
The discussion on weather sealing is kind of weird. Check the lensrentals teardowns. If you want FF MILC with good sealing, get the Nikon Z7.

Sony sealing is pretty meh, and the Canon EOS R sealing is no better, if not worse.

What are we debating? Neither Canon or Sony have sealing I’d trust in rain without a bag.

definitely Not in 1Dx league that is for sure