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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 22 Oct 2018 (Monday) 14:15
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I would like to understand

 
Croasdail
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Oct 24, 2018 20:19 |  #16

To me its having all the information right there in the view finder. Blown highlights are shown as zebra stripes. Manual focus is super easy due to focus peaking. And if you really want to fine tune your focus, its just a matter of zooming. How the sensor will "see" the image is right there before you click the shutter. No shoot then chimp to see if the camera interpreted our negative 1 stop adjustment how you thought it would, its just right there. Histogram... right there too.... no looking down and back up again. I have moved to shooting manual exposure about 50% of the time because I can see the impacts of changes without ever taking one shot. I know before I shoot.

Yes, silent shooting is very cool, but I shoot sports and events, and only the A9 can reliably shoot fast moving objects without impact using silent. Fortunately I don't shoot golf - last time was Pinehurst for the US Open. And other sports it just doesn't matter. And even then, the shutter is still more quit than just about every dslr simply because there is no mirror slap.

Pretty much every other aspect of shooting is the same. But the EVF..... i was a doubter..... but I love it. For me, that was the game changer.


Mark
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mystik610
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Oct 24, 2018 21:32 |  #17

Because DSLR can't do this:



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α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

  
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avondale87
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Post edited 4 months ago by avondale87. (2 edits in all)
     
Oct 24, 2018 21:48 as a reply to  @ post 18735833 |  #18

Tim what I didn't say was I'd come from an SLR Zeiss film camera and graduated begrudgingly to digital due to the increasing cost of development. I was using Ektachrome slides.
Too Scrooge to buy big and go DSLR I entered the more unusual other digital format that was on offer. Gave me custom settings etc.

To be honest, if I'd have bit the bullet and progressed to DSLR and its development I'd still be with that.
But only until I needed new gear.
As others pointed to, the cost of added lenses is a reason to stay unless money isn't such an object and you do it anyway.

It sounds like your response is reasoned and wise.

Ask this question in 2? 5? years time and expect a different response I imagine.



Richard

  
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nqjudo
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Oct 25, 2018 00:27 |  #19

Tim - The differences between DSLR, mirrorless and any other system is well documented. The trick is wading through the overflow of information to see if one system would be beneficial to you vs another and that's not an easy thing to do these days. Corporations make enormous efforts to separate you from your money and there are many people who tirelessly promote their choices as the best choice not only for themselves but for everyone else as well. Some even go as far as to make it seem that taking photos of just about anything produced inferior results or was completely impossible before mirrorless. It is ok to ask the question you are asking but ultimately the old wisdom about deciding what gear is right for you still prevails. You have to try it for yourself. People love to wax poetic about new things and how great they are but the hyperbole of 'my thing is so great because you don't have it' has always existed and it seems particularly strong where this subject is concerned. I'm not suggesting that acquiring new gear isn't fun or even necessary at times but it is best to avoid the hype and proceed cautiously. Many will urge you one way tor the other without knowing anything about you, your specific situation or your needs and of course people always like to spend other people's money one forums. My best advice is that if you seek understanding let your own senses provide the explanation. Try before you buy which is something no faceless mass on the Internet can do for you.


No photographer is as good as the simplest camera. - Edward Steichen.

  
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soeren
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Oct 25, 2018 02:31 |  #20

saea501 wrote in post #18734369 (external link)
They're not particularly superior to a DSLR. They're smaller and lighter and I think that's a draw for some. Not for me. If you want small and light there's always the Minox. :rolleyes:

I think your last line sums it perfectly....latest, greatest, bestest, fastest, whizziest....blah, blah......which, to some makes it far superior to any DSLR.

To some they are but "Superior" and "Best" should always be in the same sentence as "for me" for my use" for what I need" etc.


If history has proven anything. it's that evolution always wins!!

  
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Colin ­ Glover
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Oct 25, 2018 15:30 |  #21

For me, I shoot weddings on a 70D and like it. My full kit bag weighs a ton, and that's without any pro grade glass, just 2 bodies. I'd love to go FF when I can afford it, which will be a long way off, and if I do, it'll probably be mirrorless simply because of the weight. I bought a micro 4/3 Panasonic G3 for travel. I just need a long telephoto for it, say 150mm or 200mm (300mm or 400mm after 2X crop factor). I really like the IQ, and the Olympus lens I bought for it is excellent, despite being almost 10 yrs old.


Canon EOS 70D, Canon EOS 600D, EF-S 18-55 ii, EF 55-200 USM ii, EF-S 75-300 iii, Tamron 28-80, Sigma 70-210. Pentax 50mm, Pentax 135mm, EF-S 55-250, Raynox Macro adapter, Neewer filters (CPL, UV, FLD & ND4), Fuji HS20 EXR (30X zoom ) & cable release, Yongnuo 560 iii & Luxon 9800A manual flashguns for the Fuji, Hama Star 63 tripod, Hongdek RC-6 remote control, Velbon DF 40 www.point-n-shoot.co.uk website.

  
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Mathmans
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Oct 26, 2018 02:48 as a reply to  @ Colin Glover's post |  #22

Let's say this mirrorless weight thing confuses me big time.
For example, Sony is squeezing all this electronics and mechanics in tiny bodies hard to hold unless your hands stopped growing at the age of 10. I suppose this is a way to lose some weight.
I was holding Sony a7s with Sigma 85 f1.4 and after 10 or 15 monutes my hand was in cramp. If I'm correct Sigma 85 f1.4 for Sony mount is even bigger then the same lens for Canon mount.
So, what if you have in your bag nice pro lenses like 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 and a few of those ''big like a bucket'' f1.4 ART Sigma lenses?
Are those lenses for Sony a7III smaller and lighter then the same lenses for let's say Canon 6D?


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soeren
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Oct 26, 2018 04:50 |  #23

Mathmans wrote in post #18736728 (external link)
Let's say this mirrorless weight thing confuses me big time.
For example, Sony is squeezing all this electronics and mechanics in tiny bodies hard to hold unless your hands stopped growing at the age of 10. I suppose this is a way to lose some weight.
I was holding Sony a7s with Sigma 85 f1.4 and after 10 or 15 monutes my hand was in cramp. If I'm correct Sigma 85 f1.4 for Sony mount is even bigger then the same lens for Canon mount.
So, what if you have in your bag nice pro lenses like 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 and a few of those ''big like a bucket'' f1.4 ART Sigma lenses?
Are those lenses for Sony a7III smaller and lighter then the same lenses for let's say Canon 6D?

The thing is with the sigma lenses you have one optical formular which adapts to different cameras through an build in extension ring making it work no matter the flangedistance of the brand.


If history has proven anything. it's that evolution always wins!!

  
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mystik610
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Oct 26, 2018 05:31 |  #24

Mathmans wrote in post #18736728 (external link)
Let's say this mirrorless weight thing confuses me big time.
For example, Sony is squeezing all this electronics and mechanics in tiny bodies hard to hold unless your hands stopped growing at the age of 10. I suppose this is a way to lose some weight.
I was holding Sony a7s with Sigma 85 f1.4 and after 10 or 15 monutes my hand was in cramp. If I'm correct Sigma 85 f1.4 for Sony mount is even bigger then the same lens for Canon mount.
So, what if you have in your bag nice pro lenses like 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 and a few of those ''big like a bucket'' f1.4 ART Sigma lenses?
Are those lenses for Sony a7III smaller and lighter then the same lenses for let's say Canon 6D?

The Sigma E mount lenses are basically DSLR lens designs with an adapter welded on...not true mirrorless lenses. Aside from being physically larger than they need to be, because an adapted DSLR lens needs to have a gap of several inches between the body and rear element, a lot of the weight is shifted to the front of the set-up. It's uncomfortable to hold because the lens doesn't balance well against the body.

If you look at the truly native E-mount lenses, many of the shorter focal lengths lenses are considerably smaller than a typical DSLR version.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

  
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AlanU
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Oct 26, 2018 10:44 |  #25

In the beginning the mirrorless world started more with the micro 4/3 camera's from olympus and panasonic. Small sensors but the mirror assembly removed.

This is where it seems people started to like the small form factor. The image quality from my old Olympus OMD Em5 was quite good in good light but the low light performance was not usable for my standards.

The Fuji, Sony crop sensor mirrorless started to take the market with great image quality and the CMOS sensor technology improved. APS-C lenses have been an acceptable size even for f/2.8 glass zooms.

This is where the world changed when Sony decided to up the game with full frame sensors in mirrorless bodies. I think attitudes and knowledge changed and the acceptance of a smaller body but with acceptable sized "smallish" lenses and big Full frame pro grade glass. Sony has a range of small form factor glass that is amazing and then larger heavier pro grade glass.

There are benefits with the mirrorless world but I still to this day love my mirrored Canon bodies too.

Photography and tools are in a whole different level now due to hardware. Composition and artistic nature is still within human control but the hardware now is just amazing.

Render of how the image looks in digital form is also like selecting different flavours. I love Canon render! Sony is manipulated to my liking too. Fuji is also unique and great but I prefer the comfort of knowing my 5dmk4 and Sony A7iii has incredible high iso capabilities while my fuji is "good" in comparison. I just have more headroom before my Full frame sensor RAW file falls apart in low light vs my crop sensor. This is my style and preference.......each to his/her own in image quality standards........

I'd urge to experiment as this may stimulate different shooting styles. It may or may not change and evolve your photography. You will never know till you try!!!


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
Sony A7iii w/ Sigma MC-11 adapter | GM16-35 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | GM70-200 f/2.8 |Sigma Art 24 f/1.4 | Godox V860iiS

  
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Oct 30, 2018 06:57 |  #26

For me it's in the order
1) WYSWYG (what you see is what you get) is a game changer
2) way better and more advanced AF + Tracking & EyeAF
3) access to MF lenses
4) weight saving if you want to
5) full electronic shutter
6) video implementation


10+ years with Canon, now new fresh air with Sony Full Frame
A7R3 | A6300 | MC-11 | FE 16-35 GM | EF 35 1.4 Art | FE 55 1.8 | FE 85 1.8 | EF 70-200 4L IS | FE 100-400 4.5-5.6 GM OSS | E 10-18 4 OSS | E 35 1.8 OSS
Godox AD200 | V860ii | 2x TT600

  
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NCSA197
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Nov 04, 2018 07:05 |  #27

I don't care if the camera is mirrorless or not. My goal is to have a camera that is well suited to what I want to photograph, offers the lenses and features that are useful, has great optical quality and is supported well by the manufacturer. And last, is a size and weight that I am comfortable carrying.
For me, that breaks down to: Canon 7D2 and 100-400 lens for boat races, wildlife, and a few other things (most often on a tripod); my current setup. And coming soon: Fujifilm and a couple lenses; smaller, lighter, and more likely to be carried often, used hand held often.

I really don't want two systems, but to accomplish what I want as inexpensively as possible, this seems a good choice. I guess I want a digital system with AF and Image Stabilization that weighs and carries like my old Canon A-1 and AE-1 system that did not have the AF and IS.


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raven4ns
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Nov 04, 2018 12:39 |  #28

I loved my Canon EOS3 with the ECF, it was and still is my favourite camera even though I don't use them anymore. My switch to digital was just for convenience and not have to fuss with film. The 1Ds mkii was chosen because it was as close to the EOS3 as I could come. It does weigh a ton but I like it for what it does. Most of my photography is about landscapes and abstracts so speed is not really an issue. The only thing I wish for is better lower light capability so I could be free of a tripod. However, given what I choose to shoot, that isn't too realistic.
My curiosity prompted me to ask the question regarding mirrorless cameras. Because of the cost of my hobby, I will likely put up with any shortcomings rather then spend additional money for questionable benefits.
Thank you again for those who chose to answer my question, it is very much appreciated.


Tim
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Mathmans
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Nov 06, 2018 05:52 as a reply to  @ raven4ns's post |  #29

My friend just got Sony a7III with Samyang 35mm f1.4AS. I have played with it for an hour or so. By the way; huge lens for such a small body.
Well, the camera is a very nice toy. Good viewfinder and back screen, good focusing system – especially eye focus is very nice.
I didn't like the confused menu system and I was missing the top screen. You can overcome this with custom settings but still … the menu is pain in the butt.
I also didn't like how small is the body. The ergonomic of the grip is fine; It's just to close to the lens mount and the body could be taller for at least 5 millimeters or so to hold it comfortably.
Well; I won't switch to Sony shortly but if I draw a line it's a nice camera. If my friend would be generous enough to give it to me I could live with it.


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AlanU
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Nov 06, 2018 08:26 |  #30

Mathmans wrote in post #18745090 (external link)
My friend just got Sony a7III with Samyang 35mm f1.4AS. I have played with it for an hour or so. By the way; huge lens for such a small body.
Well, the camera is a very nice toy. Good viewfinder and back screen, good focusing system – especially eye focus is very nice.
I didn't like the confused menu system and I was missing the top screen. You can overcome this with custom settings but still … the menu is pain in the butt.
I also didn't like how small is the body. The ergonomic of the grip is fine; It's just to close to the lens mount and the body could be taller for at least 5 millimeters or so to hold it comfortably.
Well; I won't switch to Sony shortly but if I draw a line it's a nice camera. If my friend would be generous enough to give it to me I could live with it.


Your comments are commonly discussed. There is no real perfect camera as you know. Sony is clearly not for you but you'll never really know util you rent one for months or buy one.

I shoot mirrored and mirrorless. After owning mirrorless for quite sometime now I clearly have developed my uses for each system.

Playing with a camera is much different than owning it for weeks, months and years. It took me a while to adapt to Sony colour science but I can work with it now.

I've taken images where I must use manual focus and use focus peaking while using lenses NOT equipped with Image stabilization. This is something my 5dmk3/4 cannot do while running around taking photos since those bodies lack IBIS. This is where the A7iii has proven to be a fantastic tool for certain applications where mirrored Canon in my case requires tripod/monopod.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 50-140 | TT685
Sony A7iii w/ Sigma MC-11 adapter | GM16-35 f/2.8 | Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 | GM70-200 f/2.8 |Sigma Art 24 f/1.4 | Godox V860iiS

  
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I would like to understand
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