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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 27 Oct 2018 (Saturday) 10:02
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Lens purchases are officially on Hold for me

 
TeamSpeed
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Nov 01, 2018 21:04 |  #16

ed rader wrote in post #18741898 (external link)
eos R + 24-105R weighs the same as 6d mark II + 24-105L II. so much for the weight savings theory. like I've been saying you can justify it any way you want. it's all about the new mount and whatever camera is equipped with it. I couldn't care less if it has a mirror or not or if OVF is superior to EVF etc. it's just a camera, and i'll outsmart it  :p.

Well there could indeed be a weight savings, but Canon err'd on the side of caution and decided they wanted a camera to mirror current DSLR sizes and then made huge lenses.

They didn't have to do that, they could have made a smaller body and smaller lenses, but that wasn't the roadmap they chose. So mirrorless does and will be lighter than DSLR equivalents, depending on who is making the gear.


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ed ­ rader
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Nov 01, 2018 21:13 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #17

dude you are triggering my BS detector  :p


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Post edited 4 months ago by TeamSpeed. (4 edits in all)
     
Nov 01, 2018 21:49 |  #18

ed rader wrote in post #18741906 (external link)
dude you are triggering my BS detector  :p

Whatever, my APSC mirrorless is smaller than any of Canon's DSLRs, so it can be done with FF as well, and Sony/others have done it already.

Not only is the Canon mirrorless APS-C smaller than the SL2, the smallest of the Canon DSLRs, all the equivalent EF M to EF S lenses are noticeably smaller and lighter as well.

Canon decided to keep the same basic form factor with the EOS R because they know Canon owners don't like that much change. ;) Anybody can see that.

At the turn of the year, the 7D2 will be likely sold and replaced with the EOS-R as I love the mirrorless experience, especially for manual focus. Lovin't the Rokinon, so small and so fast. I have taken the cute little camera with its kit lens with me just about every day, it fits in my coat pocket and is very light.


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Nov 03, 2018 06:13 |  #19

Same here. I was going to get the 70-200 f2.8, but will wait. Maybe I will test drive a Sony a7r2 for a while instead.


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Nov 03, 2018 07:59 |  #20

We're at a crossroads in Canonland, with RF being the future and EF being supported, but for how long. If you're a photographer in it for the "investment", I wouldn't buy anymore EF glass, or at least buy it used. The halcyon days for great resale value for EF lenses is coming to a close, unfortunately. Not tomorrow or even next year, but once the RF line is filled out, EF support will wane. We've had it so good with lens resale, it's always been a safe "investment" (and GAS enabler), but now that's a shaky proposition. Be careful with EF purchases, don't get into something that you aren't going to keep long term.

I should take my own advice, as I have a 100-400 II on the way, and the new 600 III next month. Yet, my belief is that Canon has another DSLR release in the works, and it will be alongside R releases. My hope is that they do what Nikon did with the D850: pull out all of the stops and send DSLR out with a fully-featured, no-holds-barred stunner. Knowing Canon though, that'll never happen. Regardless, I love what I can do with my 5D4/80D, and one day maybe will snag a nice used 1DXII. Thanks to the adapters, the R transition isn't all that scary of a proposition either, and who knows if the "pro R" they debut will be as capable as the 5D4/1DXII. So, I'm ok with the 100-400/600III purchases because I'm keeping them for the foreseeable future, but those are the last EF lenses I will buy.


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Nov 03, 2018 10:36 |  #21

I think that MatthewK is spot on about the EF system. Although, when it came to my recent upgrade I chose a couple 5DIV's because the RF is the first generation. I don't want to explain to my clients why something didn't work so I'll patiently wait for the RF system to evolve.


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ed ­ rader
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Nov 03, 2018 16:35 |  #22

https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=qjXSnNMZ0PU&​t=724s (external link)

watch the first couple minutes of this video to see how long support for ef lenses could last.


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Nov 05, 2018 12:35 as a reply to  @ ed rader's post |  #23

I don't understand: that video talks about micro 4/3s as being dead. In fact, when Northrup talks about FF equivalence...he still says FF DSLR long telephotos are worth the price for the IQ (and having a larger relative aperture). Canon also announced two new EF telephoto lenses when they announced the R. Overall sales of cameras are declining, and that includes all unit sales of non-SLR as well (3.96 million sales 2012 to 3.16 in 2016). Canon is being conservative in trying to have a FF mirror-less that is compatible with the whole range of EF lenses (so it's not like FD that was incompatible and obsolete with the EOS system). Tony says one can have a set number of higher priced items still sell but R&D will eventually slump. For now, mirror-less is not filling the market of long telephotos...so I don't see evidence that Canon will drop the EF mount tomorrow.


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Nov 05, 2018 12:49 |  #24

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18741901 (external link)
Well there could indeed be a weight savings, but Canon err'd on the side of caution and decided they wanted a camera to mirror current DSLR sizes and then made huge lenses.

Canon is not the only one to do that. Manufacturers are tied to physical attributes of lens diameter from aperture and AF module. Add to it, "pro level" lenses have more metal. Compare the Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM. It's 87.6 x 136 mm at 886 g. Compare it to the Canon EF 24-70mm 2.8 LII: 88.5 x 113mm at 805g. Micro 4/3 and APS-C are more attractive mirror-less systems for travel since they can have smaller lenses. But as Northrup pointed out in Ed's above video: that can come at the expense of smaller equivalent aperture (which may not be an issue with given situations as sensor tech has improved greatly).


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Post edited 4 months ago by TeamSpeed. (4 edits in all)
     
Nov 05, 2018 13:41 |  #25

davesrose wrote in post #18744591 (external link)
Canon is not the only one to do that. Manufacturers are tied to physical attributes of lens diameter from aperture and AF module. Add to it, "pro level" lenses have more metal. Compare the Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM. It's 87.6 x 136 mm at 886 g. Compare it to the Canon EF 24-70mm 2.8 LII: 88.5 x 113mm at 805g. Micro 4/3 and APS-C are more attractive mirror-less systems for travel since they can have smaller lenses. But as Northrup pointed out in Ed's above video: that can come at the expense of smaller equivalent aperture (which may not be an issue with given situations as sensor tech has improved greatly).

My APS-C 50 1.2 lens is about the same size as my 18-55 STM f5.6 EFS lens, a bit heavier though, but dimensionally very close to the kit lens while being over 3 stops faster. It is 1/5 the cost of the 50L, quite a bit smaller, and very sharp wide open. No IS or AF, but that matters little to me with focus peaking, I find I can get focus pretty quickly with this combination, so the missing bits seem to be worth it for me personally.

Canon's lenses are the sizes they are for various reasons, not just due to necessity of physics. :) RF mount is a larger diameter, and that likely drives some of the RF size need, but one wonders what the smallest could really be.


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Nov 05, 2018 15:17 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #26

So there you go: your 50mm 1.2 is a prime lens (so doesn't need as many elements or mechanics to have zoom functionality), as well as reducing weight with no AF. Not apples to apples....but mirrorless certainly does have upper hand for allowing you to use smaller non-AF primes with focus peaking features. :-)

As to why Canon decided to go with a larger diameter, they've really been harping on IQ it seems. First saying that being mirrorless, they could have lens elements further back to aide in light transmission and sharpness. This interview also seems to indicate the adaptability for larger aperture:

Why New RF Lenses are so Big (external link)


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Nov 05, 2018 17:20 as a reply to  @ davesrose's post |  #27

We already had some pretty sharp lenses as it was, so I suspect this RF design is laid out to support some very high density sensors yet to be announced. I think Canon learned a lesson that old lens design didn't resolve to the higher resolution crop and even FF, and they don't want to design version III of lenses, etc like they had to over the past few years.

That Rokinon is quite fun though!


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Nov 05, 2018 19:18 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #28

I'm not sure how much resolved resolution is limitation in current lenses or diffraction limitation. If I look at DxO's sharpness for 24-70mm 2.8 IIL, it lists 12MP for the 7D2 (60% of its resolution) The 5Dc's photosites are large enough its rated at full 12MP as well. Just for virtue of being FF and extra MP, the 5DS is rated at 32MP (64% its resolution)...the 5D4 is 21MP (70%). So yes, it's true that RF can have better specs and can be more versatile going forward: there just seems to also be a need to come up with sensor tech that can better compensate for diffraction limitation as well. But digital technology is always getting better at a quicker rate (for our benefit):-)


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Nov 08, 2018 10:25 |  #29

Ed Radar

we will both right in our thoughts


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Lens purchases are officially on Hold for me
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